Every Rom Com 82: The Cutting Edge

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Jen. [00:00:02] Speaker B: And I'm Sophia. [00:00:03] Speaker A: And you're listening to Every Rom com, the podcast where we have fun taking romantic comedy seriously. [00:00:10] Speaker B: This week on Every Rom com, we're resuming our sports Rom com series with a 1992 Enemies to Lovers story. [00:00:18] Speaker A: We'll learn a little bit about the sport of figure skating, including what exactly a toe pick is and whether the Pamchenko is even possible. [00:00:28] Speaker B: And we'll explore the careers of actors moira Kelly and D.B. sweeney as we discuss the 1992 film the Cutting Edge. [00:01:01] Speaker A: Hello again, Sophia. [00:01:03] Speaker B: Hi, Jen. How are you doing? [00:01:05] Speaker A: Oh, I mean, it is March 11, 2026, and I guess I'm doing as well as any person can be in this hellscape. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Listeners, you may have noticed that the podcast has been on hiatus for a while. It started out as a hiatus because of my health wasn't doing too well at the end of last year. And then just as my health was starting to recover, Donald Trump and his terrible government started invading, you know, the Twin Cities where Sophia lives. And I just felt like, you know, how could I be podcasting about romantic comedies at a time like this? And even though things just seem to be getting worse and worse every day, at a certain point, I'm felt stubborn, and I felt like, well, this is one of the things I do. And other film podcasts are podcasting, so I guess we'll podcast again. But I admit that it is a very strange thing to be doing when the world is on fire. [00:02:09] Speaker B: It is. But. But also not like I. It's been so great watching these films, you know, because you can't always be under fire. You've got to take the breaks. You've got to watch something completely fun and carefree and take yourself out of it for a minute, otherwise you crack. I mean, everybody's talking about this being a marathon, not a sprint, and you've got to pace yourself in order to keep showing up. [00:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:44] Speaker B: So, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:02:46] Speaker A: And, yeah, listeners, you may know, I'm also a little bit physically limited in what I can do with Long Covid. So, yeah, I can't really be out there all the time. I try to do what I can, you know, calling my legislatures, communicating about my beliefs. And I think it's very important that everybody do what they can to try to make a better, happier, more peaceful world filled with love, which is what this podcast is all about, is love. [00:03:10] Speaker B: Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Not everybody is capable. Yeah. Of being out at marches and rallies and stuff like that. Yes. What you're doing. Calling reps. If you're. If you can afford to donate money, like, or to. Yeah, all of that counts, and all of it's important, so 100%. [00:03:32] Speaker A: And. Yeah, Sophia, I. I just. Since we're talking about a movie about ice skating. But you've been afflicted by the bad kind of the last few months, ice has gone to, you know, as everyone probably knows, the Twin Cities and sort of wreaked terror upon the community. I'm wondering if there's anything you'd like to share about what that experience has been like for your family or neighbors, etc. [00:04:00] Speaker B: Gosh. I mean, I'm at home with my daughter and. And kind of homebound ourselves, and I sit at the window and I look out the window all day, and I cuddle with my doggy. But, like, those first couple months, it was like I was watching out my window, and I'm like, okay, what car is that? Have I ever seen that car before? And. And my husband's like, do you really recognize the cars? And I'm like, sometimes, especially the ones that come down our street, you know, we're at a dead end. So I'm like, what are. What are those people doing down there? No one needs to be down here. So I live next to a public school, you know, a couple blocks away, and I walk a dog, and I see in the morning, you know, there are neighborhood helpers out on the corners, you know, walkie talkies, because schools have been affected. ICE shows up at schools and has terrorized teachers and things like that and arrested people taking people away in front of children or children. So there's still community helpers out there every morning, and it's really, like, awesome they're there, and also terrible that they're there. Yeah. I. I personally haven't seen a whole lot, but just I. I listen to the local voices, the local teachers that are online that post several times a day, the local journalists that are reporting daily, and especially in the suburbs, like, everywhere, everyone thinks they're safe. And the suburbs have gotten worse, [00:05:40] Speaker A: maybe because there's not as much of an organized group there to, like, protect people. I don't know. [00:05:45] Speaker B: Potentially. Yeah. A little further apart. Not like. [00:05:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:50] Speaker B: Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah. [00:05:52] Speaker A: And I think. I believe your husband actually has been to some, you know, vigilance and so forth. [00:05:57] Speaker B: Yep. [00:05:57] Speaker A: As well. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Yep. He goes. He brings his camera. He's really there to, you know, in solidarity, to bear witness. Definitely. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean. [00:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:10] Speaker A: And, you know, people have said that this, you know, is quote, unquote over. Do you perceive it as being over in any way? [00:06:17] Speaker B: No, no, not at all. Especially with the, you know, you know, the. The word out there still that the suburbs are getting a lot of trouble. Helicopters all the time. People talk about the helicopters constantly. I'm like, oh, my God. And then just, you know, the. I'm not far from the Whipple Building. There are people still there. There are still people being arrested. There's still protesting happening out there. There's a lot of action at the Whipple Building lately, it seems. And that I really hate those detention centers. [00:06:55] Speaker A: They're terrible and. [00:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah, vile. Yeah, just horrific. [00:07:00] Speaker A: Like, if there's any listeners who really aren't aware about this situation, I'm going to throw a few links to some of the stuff that's been. The detention centers are particularly concerning. A lot of them are for profit. So they're. These companies are making money. Like, the more people they can plug put into these buildings, they're making money. ICE agents are making money sort of like per person too, in some cases. And this is incentivizing them to do unconstitutional things to keep people indefinitely. There are people being crowded indoors in overcrowded rooms. They don't even get to go outside. There's concerns about the food being substandard. Like these people are being kept in worst conditions than actual people convicted of felonies in this country. Yeah. And a lot of them have never committed any crime. Just like maybe a civil immigration issue or in some cases they don't even have an immigration issue and they've just been scooped up and maybe just let out a week later. But by that time maybe you've lost your job. You know, it's like totally. [00:08:04] Speaker B: And I've got links to. To some places that are all about supporting needs and things like that, so I can mention those as well. [00:08:14] Speaker A: Yeah, actually, we were going to mention that later, but why don't you go ahead and mention some of those organizations now that might be helpful that people might be able to donate to. I usually we ask to donate to the podcast at this point in history. Do not donate to our podcast. Donate to a good cause. So, Sophia, can you tell us about [00:08:30] Speaker B: some of those organizations in that vein? Pretty like right away there were people at Whipple. So when people are released, they're just let go without their phones, their id, their work permits, any anything. No money, no phone, no nothing. Often without a coat. I mean, we had freezing temperatures and they're just left to fend. No way to get in Touch with family. And very quickly an organization was formed called Haven Watch. I think these people that anybody who vom volunteers with them are just miracle workers. I believe Haven watches People there 24 hours a day because people get let out in the middle of the night and they get people burner phones to contact family. They give them, you know, warm coats, blankets, food cards, gas cards, whatever. They need to get in touch with people to get home. It's talk about just like inhumane and just, you know, no. And again, without their identification that they were arrested with, it's. There's been some. Oh, I've heard. I don't know if it's lawsuits or suing about that kind of thing that, that the federal agents need to return people's personal items to them. [00:09:53] Speaker A: Haven watches one and I've heard of that one, definitely. [00:09:56] Speaker B: Okay, great. [00:09:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I've heard of the good work they're doing. And what are some others that you wanted to mention? [00:10:02] Speaker B: So Immigration Law center of Minnesota has been an established place, but obviously helping people getting their immigration stuff in order. They've been posting for jobs. I think they need some help. They're busy over there. Okay. And a fun one. Another one is Smitten Kitten. It's the sex toy shop in Minneapolis that has been doing amazing fundraising and mutual aid help. So they're really pushing and advocating for moratorium for rent so that people who haven't been able to get to work, who've now lost their jobs, won't get evicted from their apartments because they can't pay rent on it. That's huge. And they've raised thousands of dollars. It's fantastic. And then there's Isaiah. That's a multi faith organization that just advocated for social justice for a while. And it really brings me to tears when I see them out peaceful protesting, you know, different faith groups together. I think is. It gives me chills. I really think that's so beautiful. [00:11:16] Speaker A: Yeah. That's what our country is supposed to be all about. That our country is diversity, diversity of faith, diversity of countries of origin, all kinds of diversity. Yeah. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:26] Speaker A: Thank you for sharing all that, Sophia. [00:11:28] Speaker B: My pleasure, My pleasure. [00:11:30] Speaker A: And yeah, in a completely different ICE related topic now, before we. Before we start the movie, more cheerful one, I wanted to ask if you had seen any of the Winter Olympics which just happened. Most especially anything related to skating, though, [00:11:47] Speaker B: you know, it's the only stuff I really care about. And I would watch like on one of the streaming services, it would show them like after the fact. So I watched some of the yeah, the ice skaters. Oh, that's so beautiful. What about you? Did you catch anything else? [00:12:04] Speaker A: I was kind of obsessed with Alyssa Lou's gold winning women's singles routine, especially because she used Donna Summer music and she was wearing this like gold, like, disco costume and like that right away, right away I'm like, oh, that's my people. Because I love that kind of disco and sound. But then her routine was just so. It was like energetic and it was smooth and like, you didn't feel stressed. You felt like she's got this. You know what I mean? You just felt like this girl's got this. I'm not worried about her falling. And usually I'm worried about these people falling, but with her, I was like, no. Like, I think she's got it. [00:12:38] Speaker B: No, I know. No, really, it was so breathtaking. And you felt her joy. It was so beautiful. And really like what I saw anyway, like her and a couple other the American skaters, just their vibe, you know, it's. It's historically such a, I don't know, neat and tidy Persona. But she's got that raccoon, you know, striped hair. She's got this crazy, like, piercing in her mouth and they just seemed a lot freer. And yeah, I really appreciate her. And that piece was stunning. And, you know, just for fun, catch some of that curling action because that's a big deal in these parts. So, you know. [00:13:25] Speaker A: Nice, Nice. Lee. Lee enjoys the ski jump. So I don't really, I don't really see it, but he likes to ski jump. We watch a little bit of that, a little bit of bobsled and. Yeah, so I did not. I did not watch hockey, but I did watch Heated Rivalry two times and I'll be talking about that later in the episode. [00:13:43] Speaker B: Sure thing. Sure. The women's hockey team, a bunch of those gals are from Minnesota. [00:13:48] Speaker A: Yay. Nice. Nice. Yeah, yeah. Minnesota is a big hockey place, I guess. Yeah. [00:13:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. Okay, so before we get started today, a few notes first, as usual, the beginning of the episode will have a spoiler free section, but listen out for our spoiler warning when it comes time, if you haven't yet watched the movie. [00:14:08] Speaker A: And we'd also like to remind you that you can follow the podcast on social media. Our Facebook page is everyromcom podcast and blog. Our Instagram is very Romcom. Our Twitter handle is very Romcom Pod. And you can also find us on Blueskyromcom. [00:14:26] Speaker B: And as always, you can find the [email protected]. send us [email protected] and if you like what you hear, please rate, review and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. [00:14:43] Speaker A: And you can also listen to our episodes now on our YouTube channel. Every ROM com podcast, please visit us over on YouTube and hit the subscribe button today. And Sophia has told us about a number of groups that we would love you to donate to. So I'll repeat those names, we'll put them in the show notes. Haven Watch, Immigrant Law center of Minnesota, Smitten Kitten and Isaiah. And those links are all going to be in the show notes for you. And yeah, let's get into the episode now. We will listen to the trailer for the Cutting Edge. [00:15:20] Speaker B: It's one o'. [00:15:20] Speaker A: Clock. It's one o' clock in the afternoon. I'm just about four hours late here. Rita. Rita. [00:15:26] Speaker B: Anita. Gita. Gita. [00:15:29] Speaker A: Close. [00:15:31] Speaker B: Olympic star Doug Dorsey is the best [00:15:34] Speaker A: hockey player in America, and he's about to retire. [00:15:39] Speaker B: Kate Mosley was America's sweetheart until Hercules [00:15:43] Speaker A: here learns how to lock his grip. This will have to do. And she's got a nickname that rhymes with Rich. [00:15:49] Speaker B: What a thing. For both of them, the Olympics had become a faraway dream. Here, you try. Until someone. [00:15:56] Speaker A: Those are figure skates, pal. [00:15:58] Speaker B: Set up the ultimate blind date. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Who the hell do you think you are? I'm a guy who came a long way for lunch. Please don't let me keep you from the trough. Enough. [00:16:07] Speaker B: The king of the rink and America's ice queen just became a teen. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Don't quit your day job. Would you please put me down? You Creighton. Guess that move needs some work. You've been doing what I've been doing? Figure skating, finger painting. [00:16:28] Speaker B: As a matter of fact, I do have a boyfriend. [00:16:30] Speaker A: What do you do, keep him chained up in the basement? I don't like to see her upset. If I was you, I'd invest in blindfolds. Are they gonna get it before they kill each other? You look really nervous. How nervous are you? Dorsey and Mosley, the American Olympic team's best shot at the goal. You're falling for him. Oh, that's crazy. In case you've missed it, I am throwing myself at you. Get out of my way. No problem. I've been practicing that move for a [00:17:02] Speaker B: year and a half. D.B. [00:17:04] Speaker A: sweeney. Man, would I love to see you play hockey. [00:17:08] Speaker B: Moira Kelly, any day. The Cutting Edge. It's not like his nose was perfect. [00:17:22] Speaker A: That's a pretty solid trailer. That hypes me more than the movie itself. Actually, [00:17:28] Speaker B: that's really funny. [00:17:31] Speaker A: Well, that's what a trailer is supposed to do. A trailer is supposed to make the movie sound as good as possible. [00:17:35] Speaker B: 100 it works. [00:17:38] Speaker A: And it's got one of your trailer voice guys that you always like. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Yep. That guy. That voice. [00:17:45] Speaker A: There's a few of them, but he's one of them. We've definitely played that guy's trailers on our podcast before. 100% the Cutting Edge came out on March 27, 1992. It was directed by Paul Michael Glaser, it was written by Tony Gilroy, and it stars Moira Kelly, D.B. sweeney, Roy Dotrice and Terry O'. Quinn. [00:18:08] Speaker B: In our basic premise here we have Kate Mosley, who is a successful pairs figure skater who's chasing a gold medal when she loses her figure skating partner and and is having a difficult time recruiting a new partner due to her reputation as a. After all the male figure skaters have rejected Kate, Kate's coach, Anton Pamchenko, comes up with the idea of trying out Doug Dorsey, a once great hockey player who had to quit playing professionally due to the loss of his peripheral vision. That's such a hard word, peripherals. At first, both Kate and Doug reject the idea of working together. But they soon realize they're both out of better options and they're both just too stubborn to quit. Doug goes through grueling training and figure skating, while Kate has to learn to work with and trust a new partner. Eventually, the two begin to warm up to each other. But will they skate their way to Olympic gold or will they break each other's hearts on and off the ice? [00:19:16] Speaker A: This is such like a. This is such like a modern romance novel too. Like, you know, like the, the modern sort of trade paperback romance novel set up. This is like completely it. So yeah. [00:19:27] Speaker B: Yep, yep. [00:19:30] Speaker A: All right. So for interesting facts. So it was really actually hard for me to find information about this movie. Like I had a DVD that had like a little making up documentary, but like I didn't find one that had any commentary. And I actually, I actually went off of Google to use the. This special search engine that Cory Doctorow recommended as being better than Google, which has been like, so, okay, this is an aside, but Google apparently now makes it harder to find the information you're searching for so they can maximize ad dollars because you'll have to find more pages before you find the right thing you're looking for. This is true. So I actually went to this paid search engine that gives you like 100 free searches in a free trial. [00:20:14] Speaker B: Okay. [00:20:15] Speaker A: And I did research for The Cutting Edge there. And I actually got like one or two more sources, but it's really actually hard to find information on this movie for whatever reason, which seems weird because I think it's a bit of a cult classic with certain people, but there you go. [00:20:28] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:20:28] Speaker A: I'll put the search engine link that to Cory Doctorow. Recommended in the show notes too, though, because, like, I want to advertise this. Google's doing some naughty things over there. Anyway, okay, so. But what I did learn. So, according to the AFI catalog, the idea for the Cutting Edge came to producer Robert W. Court while he was watching figure skating in 1990. He wondered about what it would be like if a skating pair hated each other. So, yeah, there's a nice basic kernel for a movie idea. [00:20:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:58] Speaker A: And you may have noticed in the Basic Facts, the Cutting Edge was written by Tony Gilroy, who you may have heard of, because he later went on to write many other successful movies and TV shows, including the Devil's Advocate, the Bourne Identity, and several of its sequels. Michael Clayton, Rogue One, A Star Wars Story, and my personal favorite on this list, the prequel series to Rogue One Andor Andor is such a good show. Like anyone who hasn't seen it, even if you're not a Star wars person, you got to get into Andor. I'm serious. [00:21:32] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Anyway, Tony Gilroy, this is his first produced script, so great job there. Other people in the crew, Robin Cousins, served as the film's skate choreographer. He won a gold medal in figure skating at the 1980 Winter Olympics and went on to skate professionally as well as producing and choreographing numerous successful ice skating shows and helping out with the cutting edge. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Cool. [00:21:56] Speaker A: Neither D.B. sweeney nor Moira Kelly knew how to ice skate. Before starting the movie, they went into training for three months with Evelyn Kramer, a professional figure skating coach. They also had ballet coaches and hockey coaches. So in terms of the training, though, Moira Kelly in particular became quite good at skating and was landing single axle jumps by the time filming started. In a DVD extra on the making of the film, Kelly said, evelyn, that's the trainer person. Evelyn said that if she had had me probably about two years earlier, she would have actually considered training me for the Olympics. So there you go, Moira Kelly, your alternate life. [00:22:38] Speaker B: Amazing. [00:22:40] Speaker A: Despite this quick progress, doubles were used for most of the skating scenes. And this is particularly true because Kelly. Moira Kelly fractured her ankle a week into filming and spent a month in a cast. Yup, yup, she spent a month in a cast which they had to hide in a lot of scenes. [00:22:57] Speaker B: Holy smokes. [00:22:58] Speaker A: Yep. D.B. sweeney and Moira Kelly bonded over their months of skating training and became friends on the set of the movie. They both said they very much enjoyed filming it. [00:23:09] Speaker B: Nice. [00:23:10] Speaker A: And two other sports comedies were released the same weekend as the Cutting Edge, Ladybugs and White Men Can't Jump. So it was a big weekend for sports comedies. Despite its sports movie competition, the cutting edge grossed $25 million, which isn't a ton of, but, you know, it's not nothing. And it enjoyed further success on TV and at video stores. So the Cutting Edge's popularity inspired three straight to video and TV movie sequels. The Cutting Edge Going for the Gold in 2006, the Cutting Edge Chasing the Dream in 2008, and the Cutting Edge, Fire and Ice in 2010. And I will briefly review these near the end of the episode because I did watch all of them. Dear Lizzie, [00:23:56] Speaker B: you, You. Dedication to the. To the pod. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Good job. Neither Kelly nor Sweeney participated in any of the sequels due to script concerns and the low suggested salaries they were going to receive. But their characters were recast and used in a supporting role in the first sequel. Kelly and Sweeney have both said that they are frequently recognized for the cutting edge. Sweeney says that he's actually had strangers yell toe pick at him when he's fallen down in public. I know. Sweeney told Entertainment Weekly in a 2014 interview that it is one of the movies he's shown to his young daughter, and he thinks it really holds up. He said, quote, it's a movie that makes everybody happy, and it doesn't have a mean bone in its body. And I think it does what movies are supposed to do. I'd love to be in another movie like that. [00:24:49] Speaker B: So. Yeah. Yeah. [00:24:51] Speaker A: All right. So we heard D.B. sweeney's opinion about the movie. Now on to our opinion about the movie and our history with the movie. So, Sophia, why don't you head us off? Sure. [00:25:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Like I just said, I don't remember previews or anything. I don't remember commercials. So I must have seen it, you know, renting the dvd. I don't remember when, though. [00:25:14] Speaker A: Not the dvd. Not the dvd. That would have been the tape. The vh. [00:25:18] Speaker B: The tape. [00:25:19] Speaker A: What? [00:25:20] Speaker B: Sam? Hell, no. Totally. The. The tape. And, like, once I did, I saw this film a million times. [00:25:29] Speaker A: Really? [00:25:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So many times. [00:25:32] Speaker A: The first time I remember seeing this was at our. Our high school friend Heidi's. Like, she had this New Year's party, and, like, it became a point of contention that every year she Wanted to watch the Cutting Edge at this party. And like, I remember trying to like ask her if we could watch something else like Strictly Ballroom. And she's like, no, no, it's just like a sacred thing. And I think it was like the third year there was like some other controversy involving a friend that she is going to fight with that I wasn't in a fight with. And so I, I had my own party and then we watched Strictly Ballroom. So I very strongly associate the Cutting Edge with our high school friend Heidi. It was like to me, that is the movie that is. That is identified fully with her. [00:26:15] Speaker B: Oh, geez. And then kind of like under crappy circumstances. I'm really sorry. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Well, yeah, nobody's in a fight anymore, so that's okay. [00:26:23] Speaker B: Thank God. [00:26:25] Speaker A: Did you go to that? You went to that party though, didn't you? [00:26:28] Speaker B: Like actually one year. Yeah. So maybe I'm assuming we watched it then there. Okay. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that was like the New Year's movie. And it kind of makes sense now because there is a New Year scene in the Cutting Edge. And I was like, oh, okay. I kind of see it now. [00:26:41] Speaker B: There you go, There you go. [00:26:44] Speaker A: Like, but at the time I was like, I wasn't a big fan of. I wasn't a big fan of the Cutting Edge at the time. You know, we've talked on the show before about how romance movies are very personal because we all have like different things we want out of a romance. And for me, and we also identifying with one or both of the characters I think is important. And she wasn't like, Kate isn't really a character identify heavily with. Nor is Doug. And like, like Kate's very high strung and very type A and very kind of like tightly wound and like, that's not really my thing. And then Doug is just like a little bit too. I don't know, he's like Han Solo. But he doesn't have enough swag to be Han Solo. [00:27:27] Speaker B: You know, he's trying to call her [00:27:28] Speaker A: sweetheart and kind of, you know, that whole thing. But it doesn't really work for me with him. So yeah, it was just. Wasn't my type of rom com. Like, I can see its qualities, but it doesn't speak to me personally. But did it speak? Was there something about that spoke to you personally? Is there a trope or something that. That stood out to you? [00:27:46] Speaker B: I just think I loved the whole ice skating thing and I mean, I feel like they're all so pretty, you know, and the cute little outfits they wear and they're Just, you know, and maybe because it was also different for me, like, you know, that it was just pure escapism into something. Just not anything like. And I love that. Like enemies to lovers. [00:28:11] Speaker A: Okay, there it is. [00:28:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, maybe some of that. Yeah. How do you. How did watching it now play for you? [00:28:22] Speaker A: I mean, I feel basically the same about it. It's still not really my thing. And there's definitely. I definitely have criticisms of how it was put together. Like, the script feels a little bit thin, which kind of surprises me because I think Tony Gilroy has written some great stuff. I don't know if it was, like, directorial choices that were made later. The director mostly did TV work since then, and I think before then, too. So it's like that I can kind of see there's so many montages in this movie that it's almost like a montage leading into another montage leading into another montage. [00:28:56] Speaker B: Yeah, good point. Huh. [00:28:58] Speaker A: So, yeah, like, yeah, it still doesn't do that much for me, but, like, I though there are parts I appreciate, so we'll get to that, too. I think I gave it like a 3 and then a 3.5 on litterbox, which are not bad scores. They're just not like, I love this movie. [00:29:13] Speaker B: Scores, huh? [00:29:14] Speaker A: And for you? [00:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I just saw it so much that, like, watching it now is like, it's on in the background while I'm making dinner or. And it. And it's been a while because I, you know, I'm just like, I can't because I kind of know a lot of the lines and it's like, you know, it doesn't. I remember how it made me feel, but it certainly. It doesn't make me feel that way now. It's more totally for nostalgia. [00:29:43] Speaker A: Sure, sure, sure, sure. [00:29:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:46] Speaker A: All right, so. So now we're gonna talk a little bit about the cast and crew. And Sophia, why don't you start us off with Moir Kelly. [00:29:54] Speaker B: Moira Kelly. Oh, I enjoyed her back in the day. She was born March 6, 1968, in Queens, New York. She was raised Catholic and considered becoming a nun as a child. Her first IMDb credit is for a TV miniseries called Love, Lies and Murder. And her first film was a thriller called the Boy who Cried. [00:30:22] Speaker A: I love some of these titles that come up on these episodes. [00:30:26] Speaker B: Amazing. She also appeared in the movie Billy Bathgate in 90 1991, before having a breakout year, 1992 with three films, the Cutting Edge, Chaplin and Twin Peaks, Fire Walk With Me, in which she replaced Laura Flynn Boyle as Donna Hayward. Her ankle fracture on the set of the Cutting Edge reportedly prevented her from taking a role in A League of [00:30:52] Speaker A: Their Own, which I read this, but I don't really understand how that is. Like, why? Because, like, she was still filming the Cutting Edge when she fractured her ankle, so she was going to film them at the same time. I don't really understand, but whatever. Maybe they just needed her to try out at a specific time and she couldn't. I don't know. [00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. The 90s were Kelly's most prolific decade as an actress, and her other movies included, with honors, Little Odessa, Entertaining, the Dorothy Day Story, Dangerous Beauty, and a voice role as Nala in the Lion King, which she would reprise in straight to video sequels and game projects over her career. At the end of the 90s, she appeared in two TV series, to have and to hold and the west wing. In the 2000s and beyond, Kelly became somewhat less active as an actress due to raising a family with her husband, whom she married in 2000, but she has continued to work fairly regularly. In 2001, she appeared in the indie ensemble film the Safety of Objects. Other movie roles included her appearance in her cutting Edge co star D.B. sweeney's film Two Tickets to Paradise and Remember the Days. In 2003, she took on one of her other most notable roles as part of the cast of One Tree Hill. She also has one directing credit for directing an episode of the show. I never got into One Tree Hill, did you? [00:32:16] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I didn't. Yeah. [00:32:19] Speaker B: In the 2000 and tens, Kelly continued to work in TV and TV movies, including on the shows Numbers Drop Dead Diva and the Resident, and in TV movies including A Smile As Big as the Moon, Deadly Sorority and A Christmas in Louisiana. [00:32:35] Speaker A: Deadly Sorority. That just reminds me of that. That killer barista or whatever movie that we talked about. I don't even think that was a real movie that we made up with Billy, Billy Ray Bruton on the Dashing in December. Anyway, total aside. Total aside. Nobody, nobody understands this joke except people who listen to the Dashing in December episode. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. [00:33:02] Speaker B: Okay. Oh, no worries. [00:33:03] Speaker A: Deadly Sorority. Yep. I love it. [00:33:05] Speaker B: Sorority. Yes. In the 2000s, Kelly's work has included roles in the TV series Panic and the Citadel and the TV movies My Southern Family Christmas and Love of the Irish. [00:33:17] Speaker A: Now, Love of the Irish does look a little bit promising. I have that on hold at the library. It's on a disc with other Hallmark movies, and so it'll arrive to me at some point and I will report back on it. [00:33:29] Speaker B: So I'm excited. Yeah. Okay. Yay. Good. [00:33:31] Speaker A: It's a mother daughter. It's a mother daughter dual rom com where they both have a little romance, I guess. [00:33:37] Speaker B: Wow. Hot dog. [00:33:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:39] Speaker B: Cool. Most recently, Kelly and Cutting Edge co star Sweeney appeared in an episode of the YA ice skating dating series Finding Her Edge. Kelly is currently filming a sports film called 21 down and is in pre production for a short film called and Then Everything Turned Itself Inside Out. [00:33:59] Speaker A: Moira Kelly seems like she took acting pretty seriously. When I see her do interviews, she's way different than her character and she just seems very like a serious person. So, you know what I mean? When you can just kind of tell about somebody that they're like really thinking about their work. [00:34:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so I'm going to talk about DB Sweeney. DB Sweeney is short for Daniel Bernard Sweeney and he was born on November 14, 1961, also in New York in Shoreham, New York. His first IMDb credit is for a TV movie called out of the Darkness in 1985. Prior to the Cutting Edge, he had been in a number of other theater, TV and movie projects, most notably in Gardens of Stone, directed by Francis Ford Coppola, in the World War II film Memphis Belle, which I really need to see. It has a really good cast, but I haven't seen it. [00:34:51] Speaker B: I used to watch that quite a bit. That was a good one. [00:34:53] Speaker A: Nice. And in John Sale's critically acclaimed baseball film Eight Men out, which I have seen and highly recommend. Like we said, Sweeney had never ice skated before the Cutting Edge, but after undergoing training for the film, he began playing hockey. And as of at least 2022, he was still playing hockey recreationally. So it became kind of a lifelong hobby. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:17] Speaker A: Sweeney's other projects in the 90s included the movies Fire in the Sky, Hear no Evil, Spawn, and the TV movie Introducing Dorothy Dandridge. He also appeared in many episodes of the TV shows Strange Luck and C16FBI, which I can't say I've ever heard of those shows, but, you know, I haven't heard of a lot of shows. So there you go. Sweeney began the 2000s with a part in the movie After Sex and a voice acting role in the animated film Dinosaur, as well as a recurring role on the TV show once and again. His other early 2000s roles included voice acting in Brother Bear, TV work in the show Life as We Know it and the miniseries Special Untold Stories. [00:36:03] Speaker B: So. [00:36:05] Speaker A: And then as we mentioned in 2006, Sweeney wrote, directed and starred in the comedy Two Tickets to Paradise, where he cast Moira Kelly as his wife. He has one other writing and directing credit for a short film called 2 Dumb Mix in 2019. Okay then. Sweeney's other work in the late 2000s included the Spike Lee movie Miracle at St. Anna and roles in the TV shows Jericho Crash and Criminal Minds. He was very active in the 2000 and tens with a mixture of TV guest appearances on prominent shows like CSI New York Castle and the closer, recurring TV roles on shows including two and a half Men and in the miniseries Sharp Objects, roles in prominent movies including Taken 2 and Chiraq, and many roles in smaller movies and TV movies, including the very intriguing B movie Swamp Shark, which I. I now have to see. It is, as you might expect, about a shark who ends up in a swamp. So clearly, clearly an important movie that I, I definitely need to see. [00:37:12] Speaker B: That's funny. [00:37:14] Speaker A: Sweeney has continued along a similar career track in the 2020s, mixing guest spots on prominent shows like Empire with work on smaller shows like Be Positive B movies like the Manson Brothers Midnight Zombie Massacre and voice work including in a recent series Mountain Men. And as we mentioned before, he, along with Moira Kelly, appeared on the YA figure skating show Finding Her Edge, which I tried to watch that show and it like, it's too Netflixy. It like repelled me almost instantly. You know what I mean? Like, some of the older Netflix stuff is really good, but some of the newer Netflix stuff, it's like, you know that it's been made for somebody who's on their phone. [00:37:52] Speaker B: I. [00:37:53] Speaker A: It's okay. You know what I mean? [00:37:55] Speaker B: It's like. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Which ironically makes it harder to pay attention to. I. Yeah, anyway, this. I've probably whined about this on other episodes, so I'll stop. So. Sweeney has several works listed as upcoming on IMDb. A war movie called the Legend of Van Dorn is listed as completed. A thriller called Red Ink is in post production, and a musical romantic comedy called that's Amore is listed as being in pre production. And I swear to God we've talked about this one before, so it must be in pre production for a long time. Don't. Don't you remember we talked about this, I think with John Travolta when we talked about him. [00:38:35] Speaker B: So I guess, yeah. [00:38:37] Speaker A: So I'm wondering if that's Amore is really in pre production, if it's the longest pre production of all time. I really want them to make it though, because it's a musical romantic comedy and we need more of those, so. [00:38:47] Speaker B: Yep. Yes, we do. [00:38:49] Speaker A: And Sweeney was married from 2000 to 2023, and he has two children. All right, so. Yeah. [00:38:57] Speaker B: So, yeah, I saw. I used to watch Castle, the TV show. Castle. That's a good show. Yeah. And when he showed up, I'm like, hey, it's him. So that's anything. Did you see any of these things that he showed up in over the years? [00:39:11] Speaker A: You know, like I said, there's a few that I really do want to watch, like Memphis Belle. And I'm also 100 serious that I'm going to watch Swamp Shar eventually, but not really. I. I did see Introducing Dorothy Dandridge, and he plays a total in that, so. [00:39:25] Speaker B: Oh, bummer. [00:39:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Definitely not gonna fulfill your rom com needs to watch. To watch his role in that. Yeah. [00:39:35] Speaker B: Okay, fine. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Yep. Sorry. [00:39:39] Speaker B: That's okay. Can we do, like, a quick honorable mention to the actor Terry o', Quinn, who plays Kate's dad? I mean, he was like. He was on Lost for years. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Yeah. He was John Locke on Lost. And every time he said Kate, part of me was like, which Kate are you talking to? [00:39:55] Speaker B: That's hilarious. That's really funny. [00:39:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I know Terry O. Quinn is. And the weirdest thing is I ended up watching, like, a couple Terry o' Quinn movies in a row. Preparing. When I was preparing for this, like, I was. My husband wanted to watch the Rocketeer after I watched, and he was in that, too. And I was like, terry Quinn's showing up everywhere all of a sudden. [00:40:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Working actors love it. So happy for them. [00:40:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:20] Speaker B: They just show up and it's like, keep working. Yeah. [00:40:23] Speaker A: No, he was. I thought he did a great job, and I thought Roy Dotrice, who plays Pamchenko, also did a great job. [00:40:29] Speaker B: Yeah. All right, so, sure, let's get. [00:40:34] Speaker A: We get into the movie. All right, so we got the opening to this movie, and even though it's a movie about figure skating, we start with hockey skates kind of skating into frame. We only see the skates in the lower body, and. And then it cuts to DB Sweeney waking up kind of in a panic. It's almost like the playing hockey was in his dream. You know what I mean? [00:40:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:40:58] Speaker A: He wakes up in a panic, having slept in the day of his Olympics hockey game. And there's this whole gag with, like, his alarm didn't go off because, like, he wanted it set for nine, but he's sleeping with this German girl, and she's like, alarm, nine. And you're like, oh, alarm. No. You know, so silly. [00:41:17] Speaker B: That's funny. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Nine. Anyway, but like. But he's sleeping with this girl. He doesn't know her name and, like, kind of establishes him as a, you know, to use old terminology, a playboy or newer terminology, a boy. So, yeah, he's sleeping with all the ladies. Like, we're going back and forth in this movie. This is a movie that has POVs of both the male and the female character, which I tend to like. We cut to Moira Kelly's Kate, who is prepping her Olympics performance at the 88 Calgary Olympics. And she is having a fight with her coach. Coach says to her, I want to see your ass in the air. And she says, until Hercules here learns how to lock his grip, this will have to do. And she skates away, lifts her skirt, skating skirt up, and shows him her butt in her little skate briefs. This is like introducing her quote unquote difficult personality. But the coach seems like kind of a jerk himself. [00:42:11] Speaker B: So, yeah, they all seem to be jerks. Like, I don't know if that's for real or if that's just a. Kind of Seems to be a trope of like the hard ass ice skating coach. [00:42:26] Speaker A: Come on. [00:42:27] Speaker B: See your ass up there. Do it again. Like, really? I don't know, maybe it says, like, [00:42:34] Speaker A: they sort of established that she's been with the same coach for, I think, nine years too. Okay, a long time. And yeah, yeah, she's maybe getting a little tired of this dynamic. And so Kate's leaving the ice and Doug's trying desperately to get to the ice in time for his game. They collide in the hallway. They run into each other, like, sort of setting up their first encounter. But they don't really meet much there. They don't even really know who each other is at that point. Yeah, Dorsey gets on the ice now. And we have a commentator voice establishing that Doug Dorsey is really in high demand as a potential professional hockey player. We see him score a great goal in the game and then he is knocked out and injured. Meanwhile, we cut to Kate and her partner skating to offenbox cancan music. And there's a terrible scene where her partner then drops her and like, okay, this whole thing, like, it looks like she's cutting him with her skate blade. So, like, like, she blames this fall on her partner. But, like, to me it always looks like it's her fault. Like, what did you. How did you read that when you're watching it? [00:43:46] Speaker B: I mean, it just looks like her. Yeah, it looks like her skate, you know, didn't Come over his shoulder and they got, you know, she got tangled up and he dropped her. But. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it looks like an accident. And who. Whose ever fault it is. I. [00:44:01] Speaker A: You know, this is like a plot point in the movie, though. I feel like. Like the movie's trying to make you believe that it's the guy's fault. And then we find out later. Sorry, it's kind of a spoiler, but kind of. Not that it's like it's actually her fault, but I'm like, this is not a shocking revelation to me. [00:44:16] Speaker B: That's funny. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Anyway, like, I mean, it's not like I think she's a bad person. I just. Just, you know. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway, well, it's like he didn't get [00:44:25] Speaker B: her over or something somehow. Yeah, it was his fault that he didn't, you know, help her over in time and instead dropped her or whatever and her leg got caught and. [00:44:35] Speaker A: Yeah, could be both their faults. Yeah. I'm not an expert. Yeah. [00:44:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:40] Speaker A: So then we. So. But then, like, he drops her and he just kind of leaves her there. Like he doesn't skate over to her or anything. She's just kind of sitting her butt on the ice and it's very sad. [00:44:48] Speaker B: Bad y. Yeah. [00:44:50] Speaker A: And then we see. Have a scene where Doug's at the doctor and he learns that he's lost his peripheral vision, which I can see how that would be really important in hockey. I was trying to determine if this would also be very important in, like, figure skating. [00:45:03] Speaker B: And I could. [00:45:03] Speaker A: I could not find a straight answer on whether how much you need your peripheral vision in figure skating. [00:45:07] Speaker B: So, yeah, I thought about that, like, just this year. Like, I never cared about it before, but I'm like, wouldn't you need that [00:45:14] Speaker A: for figure skating too? [00:45:16] Speaker B: Like, you've got your hand out in the back and I guess you wait to fe. Feel that someone's in your hand, but, you know, you can also kind of see that they got. Yeah, whatever. [00:45:25] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. I think probably not as important as hockey, though, because you actually have to see that puck. Like, you can't feel the puck, but you can feel your skating partner. So there would be other ways for you to kind of sense what's going on, I suppose. [00:45:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:39] Speaker A: All right, so now we do one of our classic cuts two years later, and this establishes us as two years before the next Olympics. So that's important. We do a cut to the classic way of indicating that someone is living a blue collar life. Smokestacks in the background and Doug is coming home from some kind of random factory job that he's working. Yep. [00:46:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Realizing that he's supposed to be in Minnesota, and I'm like, where's that factory supposed to be? Like, where. I don't. Thank you. I would have been like, cornfields. Like that. Maybe a little more. [00:46:17] Speaker A: It is so east coast, like, looking. [00:46:20] Speaker B: It's like Jersey or something. I'm like. [00:46:22] Speaker A: Or Pennsylvania. It's like they got something. [00:46:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that's it. [00:46:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. They got the factory from all the Right Moves with Tom Cruise in there or some. Like. It's like. Yeah, like, I thought this several times when watching the quote unquote, Minnesota. The bar, too, does not seem like a Minnesota bar to me. [00:46:39] Speaker B: Oh, I love to think about that. [00:46:43] Speaker A: The music they're playing and kind of the way people are interacting with each other. It felt way more like east coast or maybe a little Southern to me, but, like, not. It didn't feel Midwest to me. So I'm like. I'm thinking. I don't know, guys. [00:46:55] Speaker B: I don't know if you maybe is this writer. Who is it? [00:46:58] Speaker A: Mr. Tony Gilroy. [00:47:00] Speaker B: Tony Gilroy. [00:47:02] Speaker A: Don't hold it against him because he's made some good. [00:47:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, fine. But I don't know if he's from. You know. [00:47:07] Speaker A: Well, I mean, he wrote it, but he didn't. Isn't the one who. Production designed it. You know what I mean? [00:47:12] Speaker B: Sure, sure. [00:47:13] Speaker A: And I'm sure there, like, are factories that exist in Minnesota. It's just not. It's probably not the main thing that you would expect, but. [00:47:21] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's not the first thing I think of. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Anyway, so Doug. Doug is leaving his blue collar job and he's going to a bar called Dorsey's Penalty Box Bucks, which his brother seems to own and also bartend at, I think is what we're supposed to get from that. And we learned that Doug has been playing amateur hockey and still trying to get a job with a professional team. Like writing out letters and sending them and getting back rejections. [00:47:49] Speaker B: Oh, yep. So sad. [00:47:52] Speaker A: He's trying. [00:47:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:54] Speaker A: Then we cut back to Kate two years later, and she is in the process of rejecting yet another skating partner. And she has a new coach, though, Anton Pamchenko. A definite upgrade. We learned that she's had eight partners in two years, so. Yeah. [00:48:11] Speaker B: Oh, rough. [00:48:13] Speaker A: Pamchenko says that he can't find any other male figure skaters. He's talking to Kate's father. He says, I am at bottom of barrel. And then Kate's father says, then you Find another barrel. And this is when we cut to Pamchenko recruiting a skeptical Doug. So now Pamchenko successfully recruits Doug to come to Kate's. I think it's in Greenwich, Connecticut. It's supposed to be, which is very rich place. And Kate, indeed, is very rich. Her dad has some kind of mysterious rich person job or something. And she has her own ice skating rink, which they've. They've interviewed a lot of figure skaters about this movie and what's realistic and not. And, like, all of them were like. They're her own rank. Come on. [00:49:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's already pretty bougie if you can just, like, secure, you know, your own private time on a rank, but not have your own rank in your. Like, on your property. Right. [00:49:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I don't even know how much that would cost to maintain for a day. I can't imagine. [00:49:18] Speaker B: That's. [00:49:18] Speaker A: That's. [00:49:19] Speaker B: Yeah, you got. [00:49:20] Speaker A: You'd have to have your own, like, Zamboni or some shit, too. [00:49:23] Speaker B: Yeah, they have a scene with one, you know, or. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:49:28] Speaker A: Anyway, Pemchenko takes Doug to Kate's beautiful mansion and her private rank, and. Yeah, we have their first meeting. And I've got a little clip of that that we can play. [00:49:41] Speaker B: That's not Spindler. [00:49:42] Speaker A: Where the hell is Spindler? I thought you said it be. No, you said Spindler. This is Dorsey. Mr. Douglas Dorsey. Dorsey. Never heard of him. Douglas is beautiful skater. Oh, you're that hockey player. How you doing? Nice to meet you. Oh, my God. [00:50:18] Speaker B: What? [00:50:18] Speaker A: My hand. Well, what do you do, soak them in battery acid? [00:50:22] Speaker B: Oh, I know they're a little rough, [00:50:23] Speaker A: but, you know, I've never had any complaints before. Oh, I'm terribly impressed. What is this, Final stages of Ukrainian alcohol psychosis? Hey, wait a second. Who's checking out who here? Listen, I don't know how many slop shots you've taken to the brain, but [00:50:36] Speaker B: this was your audition. [00:50:37] Speaker A: And let me assure you, it's over. Hey, Snow White, relax. I'm no figure skater. I'm a hockey player. [00:50:43] Speaker B: What are you doing here? [00:50:47] Speaker A: Get him out of my building. What? Get him out of my building. Temperamental. You know, I can think of another word for it. Is that what you told him? What, like it's a big secret? Who the hell do you think you are? I know exactly who I am, sweetheart. I'm a guy who came a long way for lunch. Well, please don't let me keep you from the trough. Hey, I'm sorry, buddy. I wouldn't wish this on a Snake. I'm out of here. Zach. Denise, enough. [00:51:17] Speaker B: Introduction is up. [00:51:18] Speaker A: Conversation finished. Mouth closed, ears to be opened. [00:51:22] Speaker B: Pairs means two, you have no partner. [00:51:26] Speaker A: You are skating nowhere. Where are you going? Oh, back to Siberia. Skating on small pond is big excitement. They believe me, Gretzky. I am last person who's coming to look for you. Yeah, I think I. Anton Pomchenko is the hero of that scene. I like him. [00:51:51] Speaker B: Yes. Yes, he is. [00:51:55] Speaker A: Means two, you have no partner. You are skating nowhere. Sorry, sorry. [00:52:00] Speaker B: Off to Siberia. It's very funny. [00:52:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. No, I think, like, he's. He's. He's given them. He's not like the old jerk coach. Like, he's given them just. He has a gentle touch, but he also gives them the hard truth when. When they need it. [00:52:18] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:52:21] Speaker A: So this is their. This is our enemies to lovers trope. This is the classic first real meaning, because the first real meaning, I guess they did bump into each other, but they. They don't really make much of that. They don't even really call back to it all that much. What do you think of this first meeting between the two? [00:52:36] Speaker B: Oh, golly. I mean, I think it's just pretty perfect, man, she is just disgusted by him and, like, yanks her hand away. And what did she say? Do you soak in a battery acid? Oh, man. Yes. [00:52:54] Speaker A: I don't know. That accentuates their blue collar or. [00:52:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:59] Speaker A: Upper class, lower class dynamic. Yeah, that they've got. [00:53:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And then he's like, I've never had any complaints before. Again, playing, playing. They're very, you know, they're very tropey characters. She's just a constant, you know, and he's like, hey, I'm so cool. And, you know. [00:53:21] Speaker A: Yeah, she's. She's very tightly wound and very proper. And he's very loose and casual and. And kind of insolent even. Yeah, yeah, he's open. More open about sexuality. And she's more closed off. I mean, it's very. Yeah, very. A lot of these, like, different. And it does remind me, like, the dynamic it most reminded me of when I. When I saw it was Han Solo and Princess Leia. [00:53:45] Speaker B: Honestly, like, yeah, I could see that. [00:53:47] Speaker A: Which Tony Gilroy went on to do Star wars writing, so maybe he was a big fan. And maybe that did bleed in there. There, like, down to, like, him calling her sweetheart the same way Han Solo calls Princess Leia sweetheart. Little fights in the beginning of that movie. And also, like, Han Solo, he's entering her territory, you know, like, this is her World of figure skating. Just like when Han Solo gets involved in the rebellion in Star Wars. Like, he's just like a smuggler usually. He doesn't go in for this, the political side of things. And he's entering her world. I've got a whole new, like, theory on this whole movie now. [00:54:23] Speaker B: I like it. I like it. [00:54:26] Speaker A: And then she's with. Is Obi Wan Kenobi. [00:54:30] Speaker B: Yes. [00:54:32] Speaker A: Anyway, I don't know who Luke is. I guess Hale has to be Luke, which. I'm sorry, Luke. Anyway. Yeah. What do you think about my Star wars cutting edge, unifying period? I like it. Keep it up. [00:54:45] Speaker B: I think it's great. Why not? [00:54:48] Speaker A: Oh, man. And would. Wait, would Terry o' Quinn be Darth Vader? Okay, we're taking this too many places because he's not really bad. He's not really bad. So I don't know. [00:54:57] Speaker B: But he does wear a lot of dark suits. And, you know, he's got this power. He's big and powerful. [00:55:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It starts to fall apart a little bit. You can't make it match perfectly. But their dynamic, I think, is very. Han and Leia, like, so. And I love Han and Leia, so I don't really know why. It doesn't translate that well for me in this instance. I don't know. [00:55:18] Speaker B: Well, because. Because Harrison Ford, that's why it's him and Carrie Fisher and their chemistries, you know? [00:55:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And Carrie Fisher gets to be a badass with, like, a blaster and stuff like that. It's. Moira Kelly doesn't get to do as many badass things. [00:55:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:36] Speaker A: Yeah. In Paris, skating, too, the women, they do get to do some cool stuff. But the guy, his power seems to be highlighted a little more because he's doing the lifting, you know? [00:55:47] Speaker B: Holy smokes. I. Those. The terrified. Yeah, I probably. I'm with you. Afraid that they're all gonna fall and break their heads open. Oh, my God. So dangerous. Yeah. [00:56:00] Speaker A: So we have this meeting, this meeting dynamic. Anything else you want to tell about that? Like, anything in the scene you want to talk about? [00:56:08] Speaker B: They're at a crossroads here. Just like Anton says. This is it. [00:56:14] Speaker A: Yeah. You guys better make this work, basically. All right, so we talked a little bit about Kate and Doug's meeting and recruiting him to be her skating partner. But the whole idea of a hockey player going to skate with a figure skater suddenly becoming a pair skater got me thinking, like, you know, could this even happen? Like, how realistic is this? And that led me down sort of a Rabbit hole of, like, wanting to learn a little bit about figure skating. So I went and did some research, and I've got things to share about figure skating. [00:56:51] Speaker B: All right, let's do it. [00:56:53] Speaker A: But before I do that, I wanted to ask you, were you also thinking like this when you watched it this time? I don't think I thought this when I was a teenager, but, like, when I watched it this time, I'm like. Like, could a hockey player really just suddenly become a figure skater? [00:57:06] Speaker B: I have never asked that question while watching this movie. [00:57:10] Speaker A: Really? [00:57:11] Speaker B: I really think. I. I don't know. I just find this film so harmless and, like, low brain stakes that I really don't question much about it. And the way you said how it's like, mostly montage. I'm like. I watched it again and I'm like, oh, gosh. Yeah, it sure is like. I don't know. There's just. Just a lot of scenes that have got, like, the. The. The banging music over it. And I'm like, okay, yeah, wow. Calm down. All right? They're skating. I don't know. So, no, I've never asked a single deep question in regards to this movie. [00:57:48] Speaker A: That's fine. I know I didn't when I first watched it, but when I watch it now, I'm just like, really? Because it seems like there's a lot of very specific training and skills involved [00:57:57] Speaker B: in both of these courses anyways. [00:58:00] Speaker A: Totally. Yes. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna address that point in a minute because other people have asked the question and answered it before me. But yeah, the montage thing, too, like, just to pick up on that really quickly, I feel like. And I wonder. I would love to see the original. Original script for this, you know, and heart to heart scenes that were cut out. Connective fabrics, tissues that were cut out. Because it really feels like a few places where there's something missing to me. And we can talk about them when they come up. [00:58:28] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes, I'm excited to talk about that. [00:58:32] Speaker A: All right, so but for now, a little bit about figure skating. So I looked up the history of figure skating. This begins with. You have to know about the history of ice skating. History.com says', the earliest evidence of ice skating dates to approximately 3000 BC when inhabitants of Scandinavia and Russia filed and fashioned the shin bones of large animals such as horses, deer, and sheep into skates for wintertime travel on frozen lakes and waterways. Since these primitive skates strapped to their feet lacked edges, skaters relied upon poles and staffs for propulsion. But I'M like, figure skating began with, like, animal bones on people's feet. Can you imagine? I mean, well, maybe not figure skating, but ice skating began with animal bones. Isn't that. Isn't that wild? Isn't that amazing? [00:59:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it is wild. [00:59:26] Speaker A: I love. [00:59:26] Speaker B: I love the. The imagination, the invention, you know, it's like. Well, it's a. What's a more efficient way to get across this lake? You know, let's glide across. Yeah. Brilliant. Incredible. [00:59:40] Speaker A: So by the 14th century, the Dutch had created skates with sharpened steel blades. And then these skates, which more resemble our modern skates, spread to England by 1660. In the 1740s, the first known figure skating club was formed in Edinburgh, Scotland. And in 1772, there was a book called A Treatise on Skating, written by Robert Jones, which was an instruction manual for the sport and offered directions on how to create shapes such as circles, serpentine lines, spirals, and figure eights on the ice. End quote. So, like, the originally figure skating, you know, figure. It meant literally, like, drawing figures on the ice. Like, they were more concerned with, like. Did you know this? [01:00:31] Speaker B: Well, I know that in the Olympics, like, all we see is the beautiful, you know, short program and long program. But there is a section where they still do these figure things. That's part of their. [01:00:45] Speaker A: Well, they actually discontinued points. [01:00:47] Speaker B: Did they discontinue that? Okay, 1999. [01:00:50] Speaker A: Yeah. No, 1990. [01:00:52] Speaker B: 19. Because I remember in the 80s watching a clip of them doing that, so I didn't realize it was discontinued. Yeah, because I thought that was interesting. [01:01:01] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like the origin of the sport, but now it's become like this discarded element. It's very interesting. [01:01:07] Speaker B: Interesting. [01:01:09] Speaker A: So skating became popular in the United states by the mid-1800s, and dancer Jackson Haynes from the United States is credited with adding ballet moves, leaps and spins to the sport, which he then brought to performances in Europe. Now, this brings us to our first international skating competition, held in 1882 in Vienna. And it was at that competition that Axel Paulsen from Norway introduced a jump with one and a half rotations, which became known as. What do you think? [01:01:42] Speaker B: The axle. [01:01:44] Speaker A: Yes, the axle. I love it. I was like, whoa. [01:01:49] Speaker B: No, we could pulse in out there. Look at that, everybody. [01:01:54] Speaker A: Right, Right. [01:01:56] Speaker B: Glad they went with Axel. Yeah. [01:02:00] Speaker A: So by 1906, an official women's competition was developed, and pair skating became a sport by 1908. 1908 was also the year that figure skating became part of the Olympics. Originally, it was in the Summer Olympics because there wasn't a Winter Olympics. But then it appeared at the first Winter Olympics in 1924. So, yeah, that's a. That's a brief overview. Okay, so these Axel jumps that we talked about are an expected part of competitive skating today. But the first double Axel in competition wasn't performed until 1948, and the first triple axel in 1978. And this amazed me. So I know he was at the Olympics this year. Ilya Malinin is in 2022. He performed the first quadruple axel in competition, the quad God. [01:02:52] Speaker B: That's why they call him that. [01:02:53] Speaker A: Okay, I didn't know that. I didn't realize that because I wasn't following him as closely for whatever reason. But, yeah, isn't that wild? That's amazing. [01:03:00] Speaker B: Very wild. Yeah. [01:03:02] Speaker A: So televising the Olympics became a factor in how the sport changed to be more about, like, dynamic elements like dancing and jumps, rather than creating the literal figures on the ice. So, like, yeah, the. What looked good on TV influenced the sport. And so, yes, like I said before, that the figure, the drawing, the figures on the ice aspect was eliminated from the Olympics big scoring in 1990. So, yeah, it's. It's a thing of the past now. [01:03:30] Speaker B: I just do remember seeing, like, they showed a little footage, so it must have been sometime in the 80s of them doing those actual figure things. [01:03:40] Speaker A: And. [01:03:41] Speaker B: Cool, I'm glad. I want to go to glimpse of that. [01:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to go and watch some of that footage now, too. Like, I want to see the old school. Yeah, right. So pair skaters, as you may have garnered from the movie, perform two different routines in a short program and a long program. And then each program must contain certain elements, certain types of moves, such as lifts, throws, side by side jumps, and death spirals, in addition to some other elements. And death spirals is the first part of what we will see later in the movie the Pamchenko, where you're spinning someone around in a circle near the ice. We're going to talk about the realism of the Panchenko later, but first, let's talk about how realistic is it that a hockey player could learn figure skating. So I was really interested in this question. There have been a couple outlets that have taken the opportunity to ask figure skaters this question. First of all, figure skater Adam Rippon told GQ in a video which was breaking down figure skating from movies, that Doug Dorsey's transition from hockey to figure skating at the Olympics is highly unrealistic. He said, basically, this would be impossible to have, like a year or two and then go to the Olympics as a pair skater and figure Skater Christy Yamaguchi told Nerdist about the same thing. Now, she said it wasn't impossible, maybe for a hockey player to make the transition, but she said it would probably take even like a very strong individual skater a few years to transition to pairs. She said, quote, you really have to gel with your partner, trust the relationship and grow together as a team. And I would say in this movie they're having trouble with that part. [01:05:24] Speaker B: Yeah, this whole hating each other bit. Oh, I can't imagine. [01:05:31] Speaker A: Champion pair skater John Coughlin told Nerdist. I think pair specific skills, lifts, twists, throws, death spirals would come if a male skater had NHL strength and balance. However, the individual skills needed for the side by side skating, the jumping, spinning and pure skating ability would be an uphill battle. And Coughlin also said that even with an already great skater who is strong but flexible and also a fast learner, end quote, he thinks it would still take about four to six years to make the transition from hockey to pair skating. And he said it would be an incredible achievement. And then like, beyond like, whether you could become go from being a hockey player to like a pair skater to like be able to go to the Olympics with that is like, you know, that's another thing too, because like, even really strong figure skaters have been doing it their whole life. They don't necessarily do that. Right. So. [01:06:29] Speaker B: Right. [01:06:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So basically, while some of these skaters had nice things to say about the movie that they enjoyed watching it, they were like, nuh, it's not happening. [01:06:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:42] Speaker A: I mean, I think you could have a much shorter, more realistic movie if Kate just decided to become a single skater. [01:06:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know what the, what the deal is, like, why a doubles one and try to transition to singles. [01:06:56] Speaker A: The only thing I could, like, really. I tried to find articles which address this idea, but like, the only thing I could really find is that maybe you're expected to do more comp. More difficult jumps if you're a single skater versus a pair skater. Like, I think it's more common to see like a triple axel, for example, as a single skater than a pair skater. Okay, but that's, that's my guess, you know, that she would have to rely more on her own athleticism and things like jumps when maybe she's used to different types of athleticism as a pair skater. Sure, yeah, that's my, that's my guess. [01:07:30] Speaker B: Like the lifts and stuff like that. [01:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting. I found more about how single skaters don't often become pair skaters as much because women, if they're a certain height or, like, weight, it's more difficult for them to be a. A pair skater, usually. So that transition can be difficult just for pure physicality reasons. Yeah, sure. Anyway. Yeah, that's. That's the information I found. [01:07:57] Speaker B: Very good. All fascinating. The history bit and. Yeah, well, you know, why not? It's fun to ask. The question is, is this remotely possible? No, not really. But I could. But I'm okay with it. But I'm okay with it. [01:08:15] Speaker A: All right, so let's get back into the movie then. So the whole thing where Doug decides to stay feels a little rushed to me. Like. Like he. He and Kate don't get along at all. But then he's, like, having a conversation with good old Terry o', Quinn, Kate's dad. And did that seem like convincing to you that suddenly he's deciding to stay? [01:08:37] Speaker B: I don't know. I mean, it must have been a lot of money. And. And I guess we're just trying to, you know, get this idea about this guy Doug who's like, you know, you put a challenge in front of him, you know, I'm gonna be that guy. I'm that guy, and let's go double or nothing. Like, I guess. I mean, if it's his ego and the money and. Didn't Pimchenko say, this is the end of the line for you? [01:09:05] Speaker A: Yeah, [01:09:08] Speaker B: yeah, some of that already floating around in his head. And. [01:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah. So we come back to good old Pamchenko. Doug and Kate are gonna practice again. And Pamchenko says, man and woman together make flour. Doug, you are the stem. Katja, you are petal. Together we make flour. Apologies for my bad Russian accent. [01:09:30] Speaker B: It's. [01:09:31] Speaker A: I haven't practiced it in a while. [01:09:33] Speaker B: It's all good. [01:09:36] Speaker A: Nice. [01:09:37] Speaker B: Nice analogy. But especially because Kate's so prickly, you know, is she a thistle? Is she a rose? You know, that's. I guess that's still the stem. That's. [01:09:52] Speaker A: Well, maybe that's why she's failing to be the petal. I mean, honestly, though, like, we. We have this statement, but then it doesn't really come pay off into anything because we go immediately into this, like, toe pick montage. Right. So. So Doug is trying out with Kate, but he's repeatedly falling down. And each time he falls down, Kate says toe pick sort of tauntingly at him. And eventually Doug gets revenge by dropping her on the ice. I do like this scene because I like. It has some nice camera angles, like in POV shots from Doug's point of view. What do you like? What do you think about the toe pick scene? [01:10:28] Speaker B: Oh, it's just classic, right? [01:10:29] Speaker A: Toe pick. [01:10:31] Speaker B: Like, I. I don't know what it is, but this year in particular, I keep forgetting the name of this movie, and I just keep referring to it as Toe Pick. I'm like, you know, toe pick. And. And that one. [01:10:43] Speaker A: We're gonna. [01:10:44] Speaker B: We're gonna cover that one in the podcast topic. I mean, it's cutesy, right? Watching him struggle, and she's just, you know, a meanie pants. Again, why would you want to be partners? Like, and why wouldn't she be helpful to her partner, you know? [01:11:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And this is probably one of the reasons I've never related very strongly to this movie, because it's like, I'm not a mean person. I tend to be nice to people, and, like, I just don't really see a reason why she's being mean to him other than, like, he's, like, got rough hands, and. And I guess he makes, like, some kind of cheesy, sexist remarks to her, but she doesn't, like, get on his ass for that. Which I would just be like, hey, don't say sexist things to me. And that would be done. I don't know. [01:11:30] Speaker B: Right. I started to. I did have a theory about her personality, and I don't know when to bring that in. If it's kind of in the spoilers, I might save it. But I have a theory about her. [01:11:43] Speaker A: Maybe if you think it might be in the spoilers, maybe we'll save it. And I have to try to remember to remind you, though, so you don't [01:11:50] Speaker B: forget to tell us. Yeah, okay. [01:11:53] Speaker A: All right. Yeah, I just. Yeah, it's just she's not somebody I vibe with that much. It just. So I'm just like, why are you immediately so antagonistic towards this guy? I mean, whatever. Okay. But there's a scene afterwards, after he's been falling all the time, where Doug has ice packs attached to both of his hips because he's fallen so much. And this was D.B. sweeney's idea to do that because it reflected the injuries that he had during his ice skating training. And I thought that was a nice touch. [01:12:26] Speaker B: I hate falling on the ice. It's awful. I mean, even when it's like, I don't know, for fun, when you're out there ice skating or whatever, that's. It's still not fun. Let alone, like, wiping out, like, on your back and hitting your head or something, Something like that. It's my least favorite thing in the world. [01:12:44] Speaker A: So. Have you ice Skated a great deal [01:12:46] Speaker B: then, or like, you know, no, not really. But, you know, I'm sure other public rec centers do this here in good old St. Paul, probably in Minneapolis, too. Obviously the rec centers will, like, fence off and flood part of the field. So they're there for hockey and, and, and ice skating. And they're, you know, it's free, it's open to the public. And so especially when our daughter was younger, we're like, let's go skate. And like, we would do it with a friend. And because it's at the rec center, you can use a chair to, like, hold on to while you're learning to get your balance and stuff like that. And so we did it in the past, like, for. [01:13:27] Speaker A: For me, I've only been ice skating once, and it was one time enough for me because, like, I tried. I, like, I roller skate. I roller skated since I. I was five. And I got really good at roller skating. Like, really, like, not like, doing tricks and necessarily, but, like, really good, really fast. Right. I was really good on roller skates. And I was like, oh, well, how hard can it be for me to go on ice skates? And I was like, Doug, falling over on myself, because it really is very different to go from four wheels to, like, one blade. And I was just like, no, this sucks. Like, I don't want to put the time in to figure this out. Like, I'm just gonna stick with the roller skates. [01:14:02] Speaker B: I. I would agree with that. Yeah. [01:14:05] Speaker A: It's so hard. Yeah. I don't know. Like, maybe I would have gotten it eventually or if I'd started when I was little, like I did with roller skating, but it felt so unstable to me, so I was just like, yes. Yeah. So, yeah, for. When I watched this topic scene, like, I never understood what the fuck a topic was. So I still am not 100% clear on all the details about it. But number one, this is the dictionary definition from Collins Dictionary. One of the sharp teeth in the front part of a figure skating blade. Okay, so easy enough. But then why is this topic such a challenge? So Christy Yamaguchi, once again in a Nerdist interview, said the weight distribution on the blade where a hockey player skates versus where a figure skater skates is very different. Figure skaters who count on the toe pick are trained, and it becomes second nature. We are more on the middle to the back of the blade when we're skating forward and obviously learn how to use the toe pick for the jumps and spins and some of the other tricks. The hockey player will use the front of their blade to push off and even glide on. So I guess that's where the tripping is coming in for Doug. Okay. And then I guess Krista Yamaguchi is married to a hockey player, Brett Heddigan. And he said that he thought the toe pick montage in the Cutting Edge might be the most realistic part of the movie. He said, quote, christy and her coach had me on figure skates. I was feeling pretty good until I tried to accelerate, and I leaned forward and I toe picked, he said, and down I went. [01:15:43] Speaker B: That's awesome. [01:15:44] Speaker A: I love that. [01:15:45] Speaker B: I love that these two Olympians weighed in on it. And he's like, this is the most realistic scene in the whole movie. [01:15:55] Speaker A: And I guess he learned eventually to get better. But, yeah, like, it's not obvious. It's like one of those things you're working against your own instincts in your own sport to figure that out. [01:16:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Interesting. [01:16:07] Speaker A: And. Yeah. And I also found out now I wish I'd had time and I'd learned about this before, so I could have watched some of it to. To prep for this show, there was a reality figure skating show in Canada called Battle of the Blades, which was like Dancing with the Stars, only they paired hockey skaters and figure skaters together in pairs figure skating. Yes. Yes. So that's going to be. That's an honor. Honorary honorable mention. That I have not seen. For the double feature recommendations, there's a Canadian reality show, Battle of the Blades. I don't know if it's actually good or not, but just if you're really into this, like, opposite sports, working together thing, like, maybe go find it. [01:16:51] Speaker B: That's amazing. [01:16:52] Speaker A: Are you gonna go find it? Maybe. [01:16:55] Speaker B: Maybe. Yeah. I gotta catch a glimpse for sure. [01:17:01] Speaker A: All right, so we have, like, some more opposites attract stuff. Now, after the topic montage, we have a little bit where Kate sees. I don't even know what Doug's doing, that Kate starts taunting him, but she's reading a book while they're waiting for something in training, and she's like, can't you read? Why aren't you reading a book? [01:17:20] Speaker B: Oh, so it looks like the Zamboni thing is on the ice, Right? [01:17:24] Speaker A: Okay. [01:17:24] Speaker B: So they're waiting for that, and he's, you know, out there with this puck and sticks, and he's just playing around and she's reading. Yeah. And that's what gets them into. She's like, why don't you read a book instead of horsing around? [01:17:36] Speaker A: And it's like, as much as I love reading. Like, it has never occurred to me to taunt random people who aren't reading. [01:17:46] Speaker B: That's really funny. Jen's just sitting around at, like, coffee shops. Why aren't you reading a book? That'd be really fun. [01:17:54] Speaker A: It's like. And how into her book can she possibly be if she's, like, sitting there, like, you know, noticing what he's doing? It's like, get a more interesting book. Kate, what are you doing? [01:18:05] Speaker B: I don't know. Yeah, that is funny. [01:18:08] Speaker A: We sort of established that Doug's not super intellectual. Like, in school, he was mainly, like, the hockey star, so his grades didn't matter all that much. So that's another sort of opposites thing. Like, she didn't go to college, though, either. She had tutors, so they may. That maybe suggests a little bit of regret that she has for a different way her life could have gone. [01:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:31] Speaker B: She seems a little, you know, defensive [01:18:33] Speaker A: about that, so she's maybe missed out on some experiences. And this is one of those places where I felt like, was there some more to this scene? Like, where they would have talked more, but I don't know. All right, now Doug challenges Kate to hockey, since she's been taunting him about what he's not doing. And she's like. She thinks she's gonna do something there, too. Okay. At the beginning of the scene, don't you think? Right. [01:18:56] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Any day she's like, can't tell me. You know, I'll kick your ass. No, no. [01:19:05] Speaker A: But he's, like, easily scoring off of her, and. And like, the. And she's. He's easily beating her, but then she hits him in the face with a hockey puck. [01:19:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And they pissed. [01:19:17] Speaker A: They end up at the hospital. But this is, like, the first time, I think, where you see Kate havelittle, like, concern for Doug, I think, you know, like, where she starts to seem like she likes him. What do you think? I think when the. The hospital scene is. Establishes that she cares. [01:19:30] Speaker B: Yes. And I. And. And Pamchenko calls around on it, too. You know, she's like, what do you think? I. You know. You know, I feel guilty about this. And he's like, oh, it's not guilt. It's fear, you know, like, you. This is a good guy. You know it. He's your partner. And you might have just really heard him and taken him out of the. Taking him off the ice. I'm gonna assume if you've never played hockey before. [01:19:59] Speaker A: No, I've never played hockey. [01:20:01] Speaker B: No, me neither. Did you do floor hockey, though, in gym class? [01:20:04] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, vaguely. I think we did do that. Yeah. That's funny. [01:20:08] Speaker B: I loved floor hockey in gym class, but, you know, you can't high stick. You can't. And that's what she does here. She gets pissed and she brings that thing up high and, you know, slaps that puck up into his face. [01:20:25] Speaker A: All right, so moving on. Oh, we have a running and training montage. A lot of running and sit ups going on here. [01:20:33] Speaker B: Yeah, they're sweating and they're trying to outwork each other too. [01:20:38] Speaker A: Yep. [01:20:40] Speaker B: And he's taunting her. He's taking her head and she's, you know, he's being silly and she's trying to be serious. [01:20:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know if this training really reflects, like, real ice skating training that much. Although there is. There. There's some ballet in there. And that does seem to be accurate as something you would do. But yeah, I'll get into a little bit later too, like some of the other training they might be doing in this thing. [01:21:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:03] Speaker A: Anything more about the training montage here or. [01:21:06] Speaker B: No montage. I almost wanted. It was gonna count how many montage and montage esque scenes there were. And I kind of. Kind of got out of hand. So I'm like, well, half the movie is just. [01:21:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought about that too. But then I, like, didn't really have a chance to re. Re. Re. Watch the movie. So I'm just like, I'll let it go. I'll let. I was researching ice skating and learning that people used to ice skate on show gym bones. So, you know, there you go. [01:21:34] Speaker B: That's important. [01:21:36] Speaker A: All right. Now it is the holidays. So this is. In some. It's. We don't really get a Christmas scene, but we get a New year scene out of this holiday. But we get an implied Christmas because we get a scene where. I don't even know why they bothered to put this in here. Doug walks in on Kate getting dressed, but it's like, they don't really make anything out of it. You know, there's not really sexual tension. It just more seems like he's Incorrect. Considerate. [01:22:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And again, we've already established that he's, you know, a playboy, so why do we need another one? Because she's like, get out of here. And he's like, it's nothing I haven't seen before, Kate. And, like, doesn't. Yeah. And then that's it. She's just in a towel. And you're like, okay. [01:22:17] Speaker A: Yeah, there's no Real sexiness. There's no real vibe. You don't really get a look from him where he's like, ooh. Or like, yeah. So it's like, that would be the point usually, of that scene. Like, that's a classic trope scene in a lot of things where it's like the guy notices for the first time, oh, she's kind of hot, right? [01:22:33] Speaker B: Like, there's no heat. There could have been a little heat. [01:22:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So he comes in, and his purpose in coming in, then is to give her a present, which is, mystifyingly, the hockey. The. The game sweater of a famous hockey player named Bobby Hull, who I looked up. He was apparently a very famous. This Canadian hockey player who played from 1957 to 1980. But this seems like a really random present. Like, unless, like, there should have been another scene, like, establishing that Kate had really come to, like, hockey or something. Maybe they're watching a hockey game together or something. Anything. [01:23:08] Speaker B: There's a scene before where he's talking to Pamchenko. He's like, what do I get her? She's got everything. What do you get the girl that's got everything? You know, she's got the house, she's got the clothes. She's got. Got the this and this and that. And so that's why. Well, she doesn't have this, but it's. It's like he's had it for 15 years. It's a big deal to him. It's very personal. [01:23:33] Speaker A: So I'm like. [01:23:35] Speaker B: So I feel like Doug's got feelings for her already, you know, I guess for me. [01:23:42] Speaker A: For me, it just felt so random, though. It's like the present, like, he would think was good himself. And she does the same thing. She gives him a present that she would think is good, but it's also a little condescending. She gives him Great Expectations, the book, which, like. Okay, I'm sorry. As somebody who's really into literature, that is such a basic choice. Like, come on. That. [01:24:04] Speaker B: Would you give. What would you give for a book? [01:24:07] Speaker A: If I were giving a book, I'd probably either give something that, like, seemed sort of like. Like, it might relate to his interests in some ways, like maybe, like, quote, unquote, more manly or something. Or, like. Or I would give him, like, one of my favorite books. Right. Like, something I. And I. Is Great Expectations your favorite book? I don't know. [01:24:26] Speaker B: No. Right. [01:24:28] Speaker A: It just seems like the book you would come up with if you never really read literature. [01:24:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:34] Speaker A: Like, I read it in high school, so great. Expectations. I don't know. [01:24:38] Speaker B: I mean, I agree. It would not be my go to for a gift. [01:24:44] Speaker A: I mean, it's easy enough to read. I don't know what the thought was there. Maybe there wasn't that. Maybe it's just a throwaway thing, but. Yeah, but, but. Okay. But you think this hockey sweater gift reflects some kind of feeling that's developing? [01:24:56] Speaker B: Well, we both said we think there should have been more, Right? And maybe, again, this scene could have been more. There could have been a little more heat. I don't know. I mean, I think it. Like I said, I think it was a really personal thing. It was something that he had. What could have been cool on her end. If she was going to give a book, she could have given him her favorite book, one that she's read to 35 times in the. And the pages are all worn and it's got her notes. Do you know what I mean? Like, I wish. [01:25:30] Speaker A: I think her mom, a booker mom had given her or something. [01:25:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But it was still another just kind of like, oh, look, they really don't get each other. And there's another little dig. Like, they could have done better with this. I agree. I agree. Yeah. [01:25:46] Speaker A: All right, let's move on to the rich people. New Year's party. So many yuppies. So many yuppies at this party. Like, they're partying at the mansion. There's like a saxophones playing a cover of Love Shack, which just took me out. I was like, oh, my God, A cover of Love Shack. The music in this movie, by the way. I'm sorry, whoever. Whoever. I didn't look up the music supervisor because I don't want to call them out and shame them. But, like. [01:26:10] Speaker B: But it's. [01:26:10] Speaker A: It was all over the place. Like, what was even going on there? [01:26:14] Speaker B: I agree. [01:26:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:26:17] Speaker B: That's what I was. Like this, like, get down. [01:26:19] Speaker A: Like. [01:26:21] Speaker B: Like in every scene, it's like this. I don't know what's going on. I agree. [01:26:26] Speaker A: Very funny. I really don't feel they invested a lot of either thought or budget into, like, the music, like, because it just seems like afterthoughts almost. And if you're gonna have this many montages in a movie. [01:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Music. [01:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. Sorry. I just. Hard. That's a thing that people. Well, I don't even know if they do it anymore, but when I was in Korea, if something was kind of unbelievable, you couldn't believe it. You go, horror. Like that. [01:26:50] Speaker B: I like. I like that. Horror. [01:26:53] Speaker A: That's how I feel. That's how strongly I feel about the music in this movie is that I'm reverting to speaking a language I haven't spoken regularly for, like, six years or something. No, 10 years. 10 years. Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah, yeah. [01:27:09] Speaker B: Whoa. [01:27:11] Speaker A: Anyway, okay, so moving on. [01:27:13] Speaker B: Moving on. [01:27:15] Speaker A: The captions aren't gonna have any idea what to do with horror. Okay, so moving on. Let's see, things that happened at the party. We have this thing where Doug kind of goes into the quiet trophy room where, like. Yes. Did we talk earlier about how there's a whole trophy room at Kate's mansion? I can't remember if we mentioned it. [01:27:34] Speaker B: No, we didn't. [01:27:36] Speaker A: So, yeah, there's this whole room in their mansion where it's, like. Seems like memorabilia related to skating. And there's also pictures of, like, Kate and her mom. And then there's just, like, really prominent empty metal case kind of in the middle of the room. And that's supposedly where the gold medal is going to go for Kate and Doug to win at the Olympics. No pressure. [01:28:00] Speaker B: Yeah, Right? That comes up later, doesn't it? [01:28:04] Speaker A: It's there. [01:28:04] Speaker B: It's. [01:28:05] Speaker A: It's very, like. It's one of the main symbols of this movie. But Doug kind of leaves the yuppies behind to, like, just wander around in that room and look at some pictures of Kate and her mom. And we have a. It's a nice little quiet scene. It's not very long, but it's not bad. What do you think? [01:28:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it can. [01:28:21] Speaker A: It was sweet. [01:28:22] Speaker B: And then she. She comes. She. She touches him. She. Under the guise of straightening his suit, you know, and I don't know. That was an opportunity. [01:28:31] Speaker A: We go back into the party and Hail. I can't believe this name. This is such an 80s douchebag name, right? You know, Hail. Kate's boyfriend, who has an MBA and works in London for her dad's company. He is at the party and he meets Doug and is almost immediately condescending to him. [01:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's like, really? I mean, does every wealthy person this God does something like. It's so. It's very tropey. [01:29:00] Speaker A: Like, yeah. He even has blonde hair of your standard, like, preppy, rich jerk from the 80s movie. This is not an 80s movie, but this is, like, very vestigial of an 80s movie. [01:29:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a shame, because this is the actor who plays the dad at the end of Field of Dreams. Wait, what? Yes. [01:29:20] Speaker A: Hale is the dad at the end of Field of Dreams? [01:29:23] Speaker B: Yes. [01:29:24] Speaker A: Dude. [01:29:26] Speaker B: Totally different, right? Dude, his name is Dwyer Brown. And he played. Yep. The John Kinsella, the dad in Field of Dreams, and he's Hale Forester. [01:29:41] Speaker A: Well, I did not know your. The. Your game. Wait, what's his name again? [01:29:47] Speaker B: Dwyer Brown. [01:29:48] Speaker A: Dwyer Brown. I did. Was not familiar with your game. You managed to play Hail the Stereotypical Yuppie and the dad at the end of Field of Dreams, and I did not notice that you were the same person. So well done. Well done indeed. [01:30:01] Speaker B: I'm glad I could help with that. And, like, bring that out there. [01:30:04] Speaker A: That's quite a factoid. That is quite a factoid. So, yeah, Hale condescends to poor old Doug and. And then Kate sees a. Then. Then, like later in the party, Kate sees Doug surrounded by beautiful blonde women who all want him for some reason. [01:30:21] Speaker B: Yeah. They're all. They're big blonde hair and again, feeling very 80s ish. And they're. They're glitzy clothes. [01:30:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:30:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:31] Speaker A: Oh, one thing I did, like, at this party is Pamchenko is totally dancing at this party and having fun with people. Like, he's dancing with a lady. He's. He's my favorite character. Let me. Let me say. [01:30:42] Speaker B: I could tell. I could tell he's your favorite. [01:30:44] Speaker A: How can you tell? I don't know. [01:30:47] Speaker B: I think you just. [01:30:48] Speaker A: You got. [01:30:49] Speaker B: You've got. You light up every time. You know, your voice gets a little like. Ah, Loki brought him together again, and it's all him. You love him. Yeah. [01:30:58] Speaker A: I think this movie needed more Pamchenko. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would have been good. All right, so we have a New Year's party. They play old lang syne because we always have to play old lang syne. At the New Year's party, everyone gets out sparklers, which my husband was like, isn't that a fire? And I'm like, yeah, 100. Come to think of it, I've never been to a single party where people lit sparklers inside. [01:31:21] Speaker B: No, I know. What. What's going on? [01:31:24] Speaker A: Totally. [01:31:24] Speaker B: Maybe that. [01:31:25] Speaker A: That mansion, maybe they have special maids and butlers that walk around like. Like stomping out, like, all the fires to try to start. Like, they're so rich that they can afford that. [01:31:37] Speaker B: That's funny. What do you think? Your girl, the little ash girl, [01:31:42] Speaker A: they're crawling on the floor so we can't see them in the shot. [01:31:49] Speaker B: Excellent. [01:31:50] Speaker A: Oh, man. This is my new head cannon for this movie. [01:31:53] Speaker B: I love it. [01:31:55] Speaker A: Dario Quinn is actually secretly, like, sort of like, almost evil. [01:31:59] Speaker B: And like, well, with that thin little mustache, it's very. It's got that Vibe. I don't know. [01:32:06] Speaker A: Like, I love it. Okay, okay. But the sparklers do make a nice image. We have the sparklers. Like there's a sparkler and then Kate and Doug are kind of like coming into this shot from either side and there's this whole, like, everybody's been kissing and there's just like, oh, are they gonna kiss? [01:32:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:24] Speaker A: And I mean, it's a pointingly sort of only sort of. [01:32:27] Speaker B: Right. Well, there. This is the moment. They didn't put this in the moment when they were exchanging gifts. They did it here and they kind of slow it down. It's as if the world has gone quiet around them and they have their moment connection. And then. And then awkwardly kind of kiss. [01:32:48] Speaker A: But only on the cheek. Not on the mouth. Only on the cheek. So it's like, meh. I feel meh about the whole thing. To be honest. The moment before is good, but then the payoff is zero. So I'm just like, yeah, I guess Hail's there. So. [01:33:03] Speaker B: Yeah, Hail. Yeah. [01:33:08] Speaker A: All right, so we have this now sequence where Doug is going to go home. We have a reverse barge in where Kate barges into Doug's room and she's to see him off. She looks at a picture of him smelling the ice that's hanging up in his room. And Doug says that, like, he enjoys the ice so much. It's like he has like, sort of this relationship with it. It. He says, I think you'd skate even better if you let yourself enjoy it a little. And Kate gets a little grumpy at that. And then she's like, I only came in here to give you this tape of our highlights so you can show your family. And she's like, are they coming to nationals in Chicago? Which is never resolved because I feel like his brother should have come to nationals in Chicago. [01:33:52] Speaker B: Right? [01:33:53] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. [01:33:55] Speaker B: But you find out that he, like, he hasn't told his family about this. [01:33:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you want to talk about going home? To quote, unquote, fake. Oh, Minnesota. [01:34:06] Speaker B: Yes. Because the scene is a crack up. So Doug gets there, he gets to the bar, and it's like the whole at, like everybody there seems to be a regular. And it's packed. Or they're all distant relatives. I don't know. Because they're like, hey, hey. And this brother comes out and he's like, oh, my brother Becky from the merchant marines, which I think is really funny. And everyone's like, oh, you're a hero, and this and that. [01:34:31] Speaker A: And. [01:34:32] Speaker B: And Doug's trying to Tell his brother, listen, keep that down. I want to talk to you in private. But how stupid. His brother's like, well, tell me in front of everybody here. We're. And they keep cutting to the people's reactions. And there's one guy, man, I'm like, was he a producer? Was he somebody's friend? Because he got a lot of screen time for his reactions. [01:34:54] Speaker A: And I don't know. It's very funny. [01:34:55] Speaker B: He's like, I've gotten into figure skating and somebody goes finger painting, which is. That's very funny. [01:35:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And there's this whole, like, you know, stereotypical reaction of like, no, did I do something wrong? From his brother. Like, it's like this whole, like, it's not masculine, like. [01:35:14] Speaker B: Right. [01:35:14] Speaker A: I'm sure there was like a sort of homophobia implied. Yeah, yeah. So, like, it feels pretty dated at this point. Like, figure skating is a big deal now. Like, I don't think you would get this much pushback from people. [01:35:28] Speaker B: Right. [01:35:28] Speaker A: I mean, it was a big deal then, too, but, like, I think we've expanded considerably what we think men and women can do. [01:35:35] Speaker B: Yes, I agree. And then there's comments like, are they gonna make you wear tights? Are they gonna make you shave your legs? And I'm like, you know, Olympic swimmers shave their whole bodies. Men too. And so I'm like, what a silly thing to be all uptight about anyway. [01:35:52] Speaker A: But yeah, I mean, I would have liked another scene in this movie with him and his brother because, like, this is really, like the last we get. [01:36:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:36:02] Speaker A: Like, we do see his brother again. But, like, yeah. [01:36:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:36:06] Speaker A: It would have been funny to have him come to nationals even, and, like, just have, like one little interaction there with someone. I don't know. [01:36:13] Speaker B: Yeah, No, I agree. [01:36:15] Speaker A: Anyway, Doug then tells his brother that, like, the costumes and the music are going to be super different for their routine. It's not going to be all like. I don't know. He doesn't say girly, but I think that's implied. It's not going to be all girly. It's going to be, like, really cool and different. And cut to. Of course, Doug is being fitted with, like one of the most spangly nutcracker, ballet looking costumes ever. [01:36:40] Speaker B: Yeah, A lot of freaking lace and sashes. And I'm like, again, like, from a technical standpoint, all that would get in the way, wouldn't it? [01:36:49] Speaker A: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, we see. And then Doug in the scene tears all of the stuff off the costume that he doesn't like, and so that's, that's enough of that. But now we have a music fight. Yes, we have a music fight between the most generic classical music ever on King Skate side to the most generic like off brand rock music on Duck side. And I wanted to go in the room and be like, both of your music sucks. Well, actually the classical music doesn't suck, but I wouldn't skate to it. But like, I just want to go in the room, be like, you guys find somebody with good taste and let them pick the music for you. Because this isn't working. Like, I don't know. What do you think? So. [01:37:27] Speaker B: Yeah. No, yeah. I mean, okay. It does make a point though. Like, like she says, if you, if you want to win, you gotta play it safe. And there's a lot to that. Like, I feel like especially back in the day, if you weren't playing, you know, anybody who did anything different or a little out there, they, I feel like got docked a lot. So. [01:37:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's fair. That's fair. [01:37:52] Speaker B: But you know, it's. Yeah. Kate and Doug just fighting it up and they keep, keep turning up the music louder and louder and louder. [01:38:00] Speaker A: Much to Hale's chagrin. [01:38:02] Speaker B: Yes. It's after midnight. [01:38:06] Speaker A: Yep. [01:38:07] Speaker B: I have a six o' clock meeting. Oh, Hail, you're so important. [01:38:13] Speaker A: So, like I was gonna, like, one thing I thought of is like, if you were to do a figure skating routine, can you think of any music that you would like to skate to? Because I came up with one for me. [01:38:23] Speaker B: Oh, tell me, what's yours? [01:38:25] Speaker A: Well, I don't know if you're familiar with them because they're kind of like. They're an electronic group mostly called M83 and they have this really pretty song called Run into Flowers, which I thought would be really great. Kind of nice vibe. Like you'd have to listen to it to understand, but it's, it's really pretty. Yeah, it kind of builds on itself, like. And I think it would be a really good. I've roller skated to it, so that's my evidence that it would be good to figure skate too. [01:38:53] Speaker B: I have no idea. I don't think. [01:38:55] Speaker A: Do you think you'd be rock? Would you be a rock girl? Would you be a classical girl? Would you try something else entirely? [01:39:00] Speaker B: I. [01:39:01] Speaker A: Well, [01:39:03] Speaker B: I would lean toward rock, not classical. [01:39:06] Speaker A: Okay. [01:39:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Musical theater. Has anybody done it? I guess maybe that's more like ice dancing, I think. [01:39:13] Speaker A: You know, I think you could do, you could do. You could make these music, this music work. For a lot of different things. I bet. So it just depends what piece. [01:39:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:39:23] Speaker A: Sounds good to me. So now we have one. A little mini scene where Kate is upset that Doug is taking two days off to, she assumes, meet girls. We never get to see Doug meet any girls, which is just Kate being jealous. Okay, we have a practice montage where they're both doing very well. They're wearing this kind of like, sporty red and black outfits. And because they're doing so well, they have a celebratory dinner where Hale announces their engagement, even though Kate doesn't want him to announce it yet. So this is some evidence that Kate's kind of not feeling Hail these days, [01:39:57] Speaker B: and yet she's accepted his proposal. But, I mean, I. Again, all of this is building up to my defense of Kate. [01:40:05] Speaker A: Okay? [01:40:06] Speaker B: This. Doug getting two days off. [01:40:09] Speaker A: And. [01:40:09] Speaker B: And she assumes. And I think Pamchenko does. You know, he doesn't say no. That, you know, because she's like, you're giving him two days off to go around in New York City. He's like, it's not New York. It's possible. But he doesn't. He's like, you know, young man, they need to get out and they need to, you know, like, what the. And she even says, I. It's Christmas. I skate. I have the flu. I skate. I've been showing up in like. Like, I don't get a damn day off. [01:40:37] Speaker A: I mean, but has she asked for a day off either? Like, I don't know. Like, I. I feel like if she did, she. She could get one too, possibly. No, I'm not sure. [01:40:47] Speaker B: I don't think so. [01:40:48] Speaker A: But she also. She also spends time with Hale all the time. So maybe Pam Chink. [01:40:52] Speaker B: She doesn't go to get to see Hail. He's out in London. [01:40:55] Speaker A: Well, Hail's there right now being upset that they're playing music. So I'm just saying. I'm just saying maybe Pamchenko is just saying Doug needs a social life outside of, you know, being here. [01:41:05] Speaker B: I also don't buy that at all. And if they did, I do think it is very sexist that. Why does he get to have a social life and she doesn't? [01:41:12] Speaker A: But she has Hail right there. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, she. Like, Pamchenko is assuming that she likes her fiance, which is a reasonable assumption to make. Like, that he. She could be, like, sleeping with him at night and, like, they're enjoying each other's company or something. Like, not that I would enjoy Hill company. But, you know, teach their own. [01:41:32] Speaker B: I mean, again, Hale had to come to her. He's at her house. It's. It's night time. It's not like they're hanging out during the day where, like, Doug has gotten to leave the premises. Yeah, but it's not city and party it up. She's. [01:41:50] Speaker A: This is not this dude's house, though. Like, it's like you'd be keeping him, like, trapped in a prison if you just, just kept him there all the time. Like, like she's there with her dad. She's there with Hale. Like, he's there with, like, just Kate, who's often treating him kind of crappily. So, like, I, I, I'm gonna defend the whole thing here, Pemchenko and Doug here and say that, like, it's reasonable to think that a guy who's not dating anyone and like, you know, isn't with his friends, isn't with his family, should get a chance to, like, you know, have a social life, you know, one weekend a month or something. Something. I don't know. I don't know. And I think the reason she's upset is honestly, just because she's jealous. Like, I think that's what the movie's trying to lead you to me perhaps, because, like, she specifically mentioned meeting girls at first. She's not being like, oh, like, at first. Her first complaint isn't that he's just taking time off. It's that she's meeting girls. We've already seen her. Him looking. Her looking at him when he's socializing with those blonde girls. Girls at the party. [01:42:49] Speaker B: And be like, I just feel like Kate has not. I think this is also speaking into her again, in my theory, that she has not had a life. Really. [01:42:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:43:00] Speaker B: And has never been. No one's been like, you should go. You should have some time off to hang out with your friends. You know? [01:43:06] Speaker A: Sure. [01:43:07] Speaker B: I don't think that's ever happened. And then this scene where Hal announces their engagement and she's saying, no, not right now. And he doesn't listen to her. So. [01:43:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like it. [01:43:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:43:20] Speaker A: All right, so this is a really weird seed. So Kate's old coach, who is like, yelling at her in the first scene in the movie, randomly visits her during her practice session and is basically, like, psyching her out. But, like, this is her ice rink at her mansion. Who let this guy in? [01:43:38] Speaker B: Right. [01:43:38] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:43:39] Speaker B: Right. [01:43:41] Speaker A: Like, what they even care? [01:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. There's no guard. They've Got butlers and maids. Where's the guard? [01:43:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Would he just wander in? Like. Like, he just, like, staked out the house and came over just to be like, hey, you're not really good at trusting partners, and you're with a hockey player. I don't think we're going to do well. [01:44:03] Speaker B: I just care about you. I just wanted you to go out strong and you're going to fit the like. Okay. Yeah. Take a hike. [01:44:10] Speaker A: Yeah. But Kate defends Doug to the old coach, and she says he's an amazing skater, maybe the best she's worked with. And Doug overhears her defending him, which I like that. But he doesn't really seem to appreciate it that much because his. Her com. His comment to her then is, take off the rock while we work. Like, referring to her wedding ring. Take off the rock while we work. Work. It's cutting the hell out of my hand. But it's like, you just heard her say something really nice about you, dude. [01:44:39] Speaker B: But then she comes to him, and she's like, I swear, if you let me down, you know they're gonna okay marks on your back. Like, she's still like, don't make a fool out of me, versus, like, I mean it. You're the best I've ever skated with. You know? She's not. [01:44:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. I forgot that part. [01:44:58] Speaker B: Talking shit. Right? [01:45:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Nationals. We're not Nationals in Chicago. All right, so Kate's old partner is also at nationals. He has a new partner named Lori with the red hair. And she is flirting with Doug. [01:45:15] Speaker B: Shows the old partner, too. He winks at him. [01:45:18] Speaker A: Yeah. I was thinking, like, I wonder if this is something that, like, people in figure skating, couples, would do. Like, wouldn't you want to, like, wouldn't you have, like, loyalty to your partner, even if, like, you're not together, but just to, like, during competitions, why would you be flirting with someone from a different team? I don't know. [01:45:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, that's interesting, because I. Yeah. What's this point in. In the game? This is Nationals. You're all trying to get on the US Olympic team. Yeah. So you would be teammates, but you're also competing against each other. Right. You're all vying for these medals. [01:45:57] Speaker A: I mean, some sports, it wouldn't really matter, but, like, when you actually have, like, somebody you're in a pair with and you have to trust them, why would you be, like, sleeping with someone from another pair? I just don't see it anyway. [01:46:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:46:08] Speaker A: I don't know. Maybe that. Oh, this brings up interesting corollaries to heated rivalry. Now that I think about. [01:46:14] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:46:16] Speaker A: Okay. So Kate is. Now, there's a scene where Kate's ranting about Doug to Hail, and Hale very quickly realizes she likes Doug and basically gives up on their relationship right then and there. [01:46:28] Speaker B: Right. [01:46:28] Speaker A: Kate's, like, resistant to the idea that she likes him. She's like, we're always fighting. And Hale says, foreplay, but these people are engaged. And Hale's just like, yeah, I guess we're done. [01:46:40] Speaker B: Well, she's pissed at him, and she's already kicking him out of the room, too. She's like, that's it. I knew it. Get your own room. Really? You throw out your fiance, like, after over a squabble like that, too? She's ready to kick him out. [01:46:57] Speaker A: Well, that's the last we see of good old Hail. So, yeah, goodbye, Hale. We'll see you in Field of Dreams. All right, now we get this little scene where Doug is really nervous before their short program, and he vomits. You know, corner somewhere. [01:47:15] Speaker B: Yes. [01:47:16] Speaker A: Says, look, it goes away. It usually only took me about 10 minutes to relax, to which Kate says, our whole program is only two and a half minutes. And he says, so eight minutes after we're done, I'll be fine. [01:47:31] Speaker B: That's. That's funny. [01:47:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that was the. For me, like, the funniest exchange in the movie and the funniest mini scene in the movie is this little vomiting before competition. It's relatable. Man, I get really nervous before, like, when I was doing theater competition, too. Anything where, like, if you make a mistake, you know, this is your one chance to do it, right. [01:47:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:47:54] Speaker A: That's the thing. Like, there's different kinds of. There's different kinds of work in the world. Like something like podcasting or writing, you know, you can go and edit it later. You know, like, there's a chance to fix it. Something like this. There's. You work so hard for months and months, and then it all comes down to these few minutes, and that's so much pressure. [01:48:15] Speaker B: And as we said before, how we worry about these Olympians falling. And that's just it. They've worked in. They're the best of the best, and they still, you know, fumble on the ice and miss. Miss a. Miss it and fall and stuff like that. And wobble when they land, like. Like, the pressure so high. [01:48:35] Speaker A: Oh, dude. I was watching. To prep for this episode. I was watching some performance from, like, the early 90s, and, like, somebody fell and I just gasped and I was like, oh. And it's like, dude, this literally happened. Like, what, 30. Wait, am I doing this right? 30 years ago or something? And I'm like, like, it's over. I'm sure the person involved is fine. [01:48:56] Speaker B: Right? Right. [01:48:58] Speaker A: I'm sitting there like, oh, he. That's how stressful it is. Like, even a onlooker can be dismayed by such things. Yeah. So the vomiting thing is relatable to me. But how is this their competitive debut? The announcer's like, this is their competitive debut. Like, is it just because she's so good that she automatically gets grandfathered in? Like, why wouldn't they have performed at, like, some other event before this? I have no idea. [01:49:26] Speaker B: Those rules and, like, what comes before to get you to hear and blah, blah, blah. Those are great questions. No idea. [01:49:34] Speaker A: So they have these red and black costumes. They're sort of skating to this, like, sporty rock sort of music. So I guess Doug won. They do side by side double axles, perfectly in sync, and they are in third place after the short program. Anything about their performance or anything you'd like to mention? [01:49:53] Speaker B: No, but just that, yeah, it seems like he won for costumes and music. [01:49:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:49:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:50:00] Speaker A: So Doug, after they perform, says he'd rather do both programs in one night. And he compares the short program to foreplay, which, hearing that word so soon after Hale mentioned it, freaks Kate out. [01:50:15] Speaker B: Yep. That's funny. [01:50:17] Speaker A: Next time we see their long program, they're wearing blue costumes. They do a move called a sit spin. Very well. Their program is super great technically, but their scores are lower than expected. And the audience is booing at this point. And Doug is upset. He says, this is horseshit. You call this a sport, which. Yeah, that's relatable because, like, I ended up watching I. Tanya before doing the show, and it was reminding me of, like, how Tanya Harding, like, her style of skating and her personality didn't really jibe with the. The judges and, like, the kind of culture around ice skating at the time. And she was similarly, like, really pissed off that she could be technically a virtuoso, but downgraded, like you said, for music. For doing music that was a little different or just having a different style. [01:51:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. They get a little subjective versus, like. Yeah, yeah, it's really shitty. And you work your ass off for, like. Yeah. And it's over in three minutes or however long your program is. [01:51:23] Speaker A: Yeah, awful. [01:51:25] Speaker B: Awful. [01:51:26] Speaker A: And Doug's coming from a sport, hockey, where there's, like, a clear cut kind of Score. [01:51:30] Speaker B: Right. [01:51:30] Speaker A: Like, you might have a call that you don't agree with once in a while, but, like, overall, the game is very, like, organized and, like, objective and clear. Like, who's the winner? [01:51:41] Speaker B: Right. Goals. Stuff like that. You make a goal or you don't. And calls. Yeah. Calls that would suck if you feel like a shitty call was made from a rap. [01:51:53] Speaker A: But it usually isn't gonna. Like, it usually isn't as vital as, like, these scores, though. Like, these scores are so total and, like. And it's like, you don't even necessarily know how to improve either when it's subjective like that, you know? [01:52:06] Speaker B: Right, right. [01:52:07] Speaker A: Any of these sports were. Artistic elements come in, you know, Or. Or where people can say it was an artistic element, but really they've got a personal prejudice, because that's the other thing. Like, you can use these ideas about artistic elements to disguise if you have a personal prejudice as well. 100. [01:52:26] Speaker B: And I think that's what people. That's the feeling about Tanya Harding, you know, is that they just didn't like her vibe. They're like, oh, artistic and blah, blah, blah. Have you spray up your bangs. [01:52:39] Speaker A: You're not. You're not. [01:52:42] Speaker B: You're clearly not one of us. Yeah. [01:52:44] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting element in this sport, which you don't see in a lot of the other sports that we've talked about in the series. [01:52:52] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Yeah. [01:52:54] Speaker A: And this is also demonstrated. We see a clip of the Pop, a popular team that's popular, supposedly, with the judges, the Wiedermans, and they're wearing these, like. Like, corny, Like, German costumes and, like, doing this corny, pokey skating routine. Yeah. And then one of the skaters gets caught in the other person's costume, and they. They end up screwing up. And so Doug and Kate have a spot in the Olympics after all. Yeah. [01:53:21] Speaker B: Close call. [01:53:23] Speaker A: All right, this leads to a scene where Kate and Doug go out drinking to celebrate. And Kate has never drank before in her life. Like, so obviously, she starts out by doing shots. [01:53:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Is that the way you start? [01:53:36] Speaker A: It's not the way I'd start. Like, I. I. Like, I didn't drink. Really. Like. Yeah. Like, I have never been a big drinker. When I started drinking, I'd maybe drink, like, one drink, and it wasn't a shot. Like a mixed drink or something. Or a beer, and I drink, like, one. I was never drunk until I was 35 years old and I was celebrating our cast party for Much Ado About Nothing on a beach in Korea. And I stupidly drank some kind of soju beer combination that some guys in my cast gave me, and I was gone. Like. And I was like. I was like. I ended up having a competition with some. One of the guys who gave me the soju beer drink of, like, who could put more sand in. Into their clothing before quitting. And I. [01:54:27] Speaker B: Hilarious. [01:54:28] Speaker A: And I won this competition because I put the sand both in my shirt and in my pants, and I was the winner. [01:54:35] Speaker B: Good job. How'd you get that sand out of your pants is always. That's hilarious. [01:54:40] Speaker A: I was definitely leaking sand into the hotel room. Lee was not very pleased by this. [01:54:49] Speaker B: That's amazing. That's fantastic. First story I've ever heard. [01:54:55] Speaker A: And that was, like, almost the last time I was ever drunk, too. I think I've only been drunk, like, maybe, like, one other time. Like, yes, a little bit after that, but, like, that's it. That's it. So, like, this is. This is completely. I don't understand why you would go from 0 to 60 like Kate does here. Like, why'd you go from drinking nothing to all of a sudden doing shots? And, like, maybe because she likes Doug so much and she doesn't know what else to do. [01:55:19] Speaker B: I don't know. Yeah, she's like, I'll do whatever you're doing. And isn't that what she says, actually? Whatever you're having? [01:55:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. He should have known better, too, though. Like, I'm sure, like, he's probably seen people who didn't drink much and, like, you know, knows how. Whatever. I don't know. [01:55:36] Speaker B: What is it? Beer before liquor. Never been sicker. Liquor before beer in the clear. Something like that. A friend taught me that. That's the best. [01:55:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know the rhyme. [01:55:48] Speaker B: So you're not puking up your guts, apparently. [01:55:51] Speaker A: Well, now. Now we have this little drinking and dancing montage. And I don't know what it is about how it was filmed, but this really looked like an 80s advertisement to me for, like, wine coolers or possibly even tampons. I don't know. It could have been an ad for anything. If you want to have a good time and feel free. I don't know. You know what I mean? Yeah. It was just the way it was cut or the way they used slow mo or lighting or something. It just looked like such an advertisement to me. I'm like, what is going on here? [01:56:21] Speaker B: That is amazing. I'm never gonna see that scene the same way again. [01:56:27] Speaker A: Okay, so there Kate is drunk, and then they go Back to. Where are they staying? A hotel, I guess. Right? [01:56:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:56:34] Speaker A: And they have this little interaction. I'm going to play a clip of that. Okay. Whoa. Want to dance? I don't think so. A Doug Douglas. You silly thing. Please don't. I don't think that's what I like [01:57:01] Speaker B: about the way I feel. [01:57:02] Speaker A: I feel like even if I tried to think, I couldn't. And I think too much, and I think, so long, and it's so tiring. The world is spinning and spinning and spinning. [01:57:19] Speaker B: Do you ever play with magnets? [01:57:20] Speaker A: You know, I used to have to push them around and. And they'd push away, and you push them around a table and all you really had to do was just flip them over and suddenly. Don't you see? That's why everything's been so awful. [01:57:35] Speaker B: All we needed was a little flip. [01:57:37] Speaker A: Come on, Kate. It's not right. What about Hale? Oh, Hale, schmail. We're through. Our engagement judgment is off. Come on. Not tonight. Not like this. Not like what? Not like me. Kate, you're bomb. What do you mean? That means that it's time. Time for you to go to bed. God, just what I need, someone else telling me what to do. In case you've missed it, I am throwing myself at you. I am tearing off my clothes and you are giving me a rundown on drinking do's and don'ts. Kate, why don't you come? Listen, I get enough coaching on the ice. Get out. You got this all wrong. [01:58:33] Speaker B: Do I ever? [01:58:36] Speaker A: Excuse my surprise, but really, what a dispute. Disappointment. What is that supposed to mean? Well, look at you. God's gift to reckless abandon revealed as nothing but a prudent wolf's clothing. You're a lousy drunk. You're a lousy date. So, yeah, apparently, Doug is. Doug is a lousy date and Kate is a lousy drunk. And I'm inclined to agree with both of them in certain ways. But I'm very happy that Doug respected the fact that you should not sleep with someone who's drunk out of their mind. [01:59:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But, boy, she's. She feels rejected. Poor Kate. It's over with her fiance. [01:59:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:59:25] Speaker B: Yeah. What are your thoughts? No, no. [01:59:28] Speaker A: Poor Kate. She's just. Okay, this is another instance where, like, I do not behave like Kate in any way, shape or form. Like, I don't get super, super drunk. Like, I never. Yeah, I didn't even get drunk until I was 35. Because, like, I knew that being drunk wouldn't be good for me and that it doesn't lead to good decision making. And, like, so there's that. And then there's the fact that if I liked somebody, I would just tell them. So there's that. [01:59:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:59:55] Speaker A: And I don't repress myself. And I. Like, she says she thinks too much. That part I can relate to. Like, how it sucks to have to think so much. And she's maybe an overthinker, so I can relate to that. But maybe I overthink in different areas of my life. Like, I don't overthink that much in relationships. I try to go with what I feel. And so. So, yeah, so I'm more annoyed with her in this. In this part of the scene. I'm more annoyed with her. I respect that Doug is like, I'm not going to take advantage of somebody being drunk, but I think he probably should have been a little more understanding, too, and just been like, you know, you're really beautiful or whatever, but, like, you're drunk. And so, like, maybe. Maybe tomorrow we can talk about this and think about it. Like, maybe he should have been a little more reassuring or something. [02:00:41] Speaker B: Yeah, right? He likes her, say a little bit more. Yeah, totally. [02:00:47] Speaker A: I mean, we don't know how drunk he is either, so maybe he's not functioning all his cylinders either. [02:00:51] Speaker B: He seemed fine, but he was fine, I guess. [02:00:54] Speaker A: But then he goes back to his room and he's drinking some more. So, like, is he fine or, like, is he just kind of half drunk and, like, he's getting the rest of the way drunk? [02:01:02] Speaker B: Drunk. I don't know. But I think in this moment, he's. He's. At least he has more faculties about him than she does. Right? [02:01:12] Speaker A: Sure. But that's because he drinks. That's because he's used to drinking, though, so I don't know. I think it's possible he's still not 100. You know his best judgment, because then he goes back to his room, he's drinking some more, and then he opens the door, somebody knocks, and it's Lori, the new partner of Kate's. Ex partner. He just lets her in to hook up with him. And I'm like, oh, this is where Doug is the bad guy now. I'm just like, are you serious? Like, yes. Why? Why? Why would you do that? It just seems so disloyal to your partner, like, right before, you know, you're gonna be competing and everything. [02:01:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And he likes Kate. He likes her. So they had a fight, like, yes. [02:01:49] Speaker A: No. Yes and no. You think. [02:01:52] Speaker B: You don't think he. He feel he knows 100 that he likes it right now? [02:01:56] Speaker A: I don't think he knows 100%. No. [02:01:58] Speaker B: Okay. [02:01:59] Speaker A: Something he says the next day makes me think he doesn't know 100%. Because Kate is hungover, she locks herself out of her room. Laurie answers the door to Doug's room, which is such a trope itself. And then Doug follows her out of the room wearing his towel to try to explain things to her. And he's arguing that Kate shouldn't be so upset because, like, he needs time to adjust to the idea of Kate liking him because she's been treating him like crap. Like hired help. Help, he says. So I think it's like, maybe it hadn't occurred to Doug that they could be together, you know, until last night. So maybe he doesn't know that he likes her simply because it hadn't even occurred to him that it was a possibility. Do you know what I mean? I mean, he doesn't even know that Hale and her broke up until the night before. [02:02:40] Speaker B: Right. Till that moment. Golly. Right. Right. [02:02:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:02:45] Speaker A: But I still think it's shitty that he slept with, like, Lori, because, I mean, that would just be like. Like, it just seems like a bad move in terms of, like, sportsmanship being a sports person in this. I don't know. Whatever. Who can say? [02:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I suppose so. [02:03:03] Speaker A: Now we're going to come to the spoiler section. So if you haven't seen the Cutting Edge and you don't want to be spoiled on the end of the movie, please stop listening now and then come back and rejoin us when you're done. So the first thing I want to bring in after our spoiler line has been crossed is the Pamchenko, which we have mentioned earlier in the podcast. So the Pemchenko is a special skating move. It is introduced by the coach, Anton Pemchenko, when he tells Doug and Kate that there's a European team that's going to be at the Olympics who are, like, perfect and supposedly unbeatable. And so Pemchenko wants them to do a move that's going to blow the competition away, but apparently they only have five weeks before the Olympics to, like, do this spectacular. A new move. And we're gonna. I'm gonna play a clip. We're playing the clips too close together. I'm sorry, everybody, but this is a clip of Anton Pamchenko introducing the fabulous new move. For 20 years, I've been working on this, but, you know, to have skaters, to have situation where Gelania desire is [02:04:08] Speaker B: not ready until now. [02:04:10] Speaker A: What Is this. Is this a bounce spin into a throw? Bro, you can't do that. The key to this is release. There can be no halfway. No, no, it's illegal. Legano Neo is. Is gray area bounce spin to a throat twist. And I catch her. Well, sort of. We can't do this. Why not? We have all the pieces. We have fun. Five weeks. The Bamchenko twist. Absolutely not. What do you expect us to name it after you? No, no, it's mistake. It's not the right time. No, no, wait a minute. [02:04:49] Speaker B: This is good stuff. I can do this. [02:04:50] Speaker A: So what are you saying? I can't? Hey, if the shoe fits. Hey, listen, I have been competing for 13 years and nobody tells me what I can or cannot do. All right? Kate in the movie, taking after her movie dad, Terry o' Quinn in the show Lost. Nobody tells me what I can't do. [02:05:12] Speaker B: Does he say that? Yes. Fantastic. And nobody caught that. Nobody talked about that. [02:05:21] Speaker A: Oh, I don't know. I don't know if the audience crossover between this movie and Lost was that big or not. [02:05:28] Speaker B: I did not really watch Lost, so that's. And I watched this movie a thousand times. So there. [02:05:33] Speaker A: Yeah, good thing I watched more times. I have crossed over, but I. But I wasn't thinking about it when I watched Lost. I had totally forgotten I'd ever seen Terry Quinn in a movie. So. Yeah, sure. [02:05:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [02:05:44] Speaker A: Anyway, the Pamchenko. So it's this, like, totally fictional move. Okay. And I. And one of the first questions I had when I watched this movie again for the podcast is, is this even a possible move? And the answer is a resounding no. Okay, so Yahoo Entertainment interviewed two of the skating doubles from the Cutting Edge, Sharon Cars and John Denton about the move. Denton said, quote, the idea of the Pamchenko is a girl being swung in a circle, then going up and spinning, and then the boy catching her and putting her down. But that's not physics. You can't swing somebody in a circle and then all of a sudden get them up in the air and change your trajectory. So, yeah, not a thing. Not a thing. There's also a video with figure skater Mariah Bell in a GQ video, and she discusses a scene in the Cutting Edge Chasing the Dream where they also do the Pamchenko. She says that the spinning part of the Pamchenko would be possible. It's called a headbanger. And it's a move some pairs do, but that the skater would never be thrown out of that spin. It's just. That's not a thing. And the Training protocol they then use for this Pamchenko seems really inaccurate. So Paris skating coach Jim Peterson was interviewed by the Sarasota Herald Tribune. Just about standard figure skating protocol, not about this movie. He said all of the twists and spins are done on a trampoline for three months before being attempted on ice. The lifts are done on the floor with top attention being paid to the male's footwork. So, like, basically, this guy who trains figure skaters for a living says that, like, when you see something on the ice, this is something that people have trained with off the ice before they even go on the ice for months. And yet they're gonna do this Pamchenko in five weeks. [02:07:39] Speaker B: That's hilarious. [02:07:40] Speaker A: And there's no footage of them off the ice in this training montage. They're just on the ice doing this over and over again. She's getting injured over and over again, potentially falling. [02:07:50] Speaker B: Right. That's really interesting. Yeah. They show them, like, running in the woods and doing sit ups. But it would have maybe been more interesting to see them do stuff, perhaps real training, like all of this practice stuff on, you know, mats and. And. Yeah. What did he say? [02:08:11] Speaker A: The trampolines. [02:08:13] Speaker B: The trampoline and stuff like that. [02:08:15] Speaker A: In some of the cutting edge sequels, the ones made for tv, they do show more realistic training. So that's interesting. [02:08:21] Speaker B: Very good. [02:08:22] Speaker A: Like, yeah, but also, like, this same article in the Herald Tribune is talking about, like, all the accidents that can occur in figure skating and how most of them do occur in the training phase. So, like, when she's falling down over and over again, that would not be, like, something you'd want to risk right up to go leading up to the Olympics. [02:08:41] Speaker B: Totally. [02:08:42] Speaker A: Like, talking about incidents where people had fractured their skulls, for example, or cut each other with a skate blade. Broken noses, shattered eye sockets, concussions, like, all kinds of things. So this is a dangerous sport. [02:08:57] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, my God. [02:09:00] Speaker A: So in the actual shooting of the Pamchenko, a mannequin was used for shots of Doug spinning Kate in the initial part of the move, where the skater's head would be otherwise dangerously close to the ice. So that's good to note. Yeah. No people were harmed in the shooting of this movie that we know, except for that one time she's fractured her ankle, but that's probably on her. [02:09:21] Speaker B: So. Yeah. [02:09:22] Speaker A: Trying out jumps. So what do you think about this whole Pamchenko, this move, this. The unbelievability of it all, the whole thing. [02:09:30] Speaker B: I mean, it is so unbelievable. You're just like, sure, let's just go with it. Like Total, you know, suspension of disbelief. Like, and that. Yeah, this five weeks, it's like. They make it sound like from the nationals to the Olympics, it's just five weeks. Yeah, that's how I. The timeline feels here. [02:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Unless they've just been hating on each other this whole time. [02:09:56] Speaker B: Right. And what have they been practicing since? [02:09:59] Speaker A: Like, I don't know. [02:10:00] Speaker B: They. They should have started that. That from the jump and. [02:10:03] Speaker A: Yeah, Yep. [02:10:05] Speaker B: Pretty silly. [02:10:07] Speaker A: All right. The next section of the. Of our talking, I've entitled Emotions, Revelations, Olympics. [02:10:14] Speaker B: Perfect. Because that is exactly. It's like the last 20 minutes of the film and it all comes out. Yep. [02:10:21] Speaker A: Yep. Well, do you want to talk about your Kate stuff now or like. [02:10:24] Speaker B: Okay, so. Well, coming into this, you know, Kate is in the trophy room. It's, you know, evening. She's in a robe and her dad comes in and. And you know, she's looking at that empty box where the gold medal is supposed to be. And she says to him, you know, about skating, why am I doing this? And you know, he comes back with like, it's what you've always wanted. And she goes, always. And he's like, go to bed. You know, it's just, just Kate, go to bed now. You know, and he's telling her what to do. And that's, I think Kate's deal. The whole thing through the movie and why she's so snotty and just quote unquote difficult or whatever is because she's been told what to do for so long, she has lost sight if she even likes ice skating anymore. You know, Doug says it to her, if you had more fun and you enjoyed yourself, you know, like, and, and I think also why she hasn't found a partner. Why no partner's ever good enough. Like, I think, and she didn't get to go to college and all these things, things come out, she might have missed opportunities. It's. I think there's been some subconscious, maybe some self sabotage because maybe she hasn't wanted this for sure always. And why she's fighting with everybody all the time or so quick to like punch back, I can't imagine. Yeah, that would suck. [02:11:49] Speaker A: No, I agree with you. I agree with you that that's what the movie wants you to see. I don't think they did a great job bringing it across in terms of the dynamics you see with Kate and her dad throughout the movie. I just don't think you see enough of the dad, and I don't think you see enough of their interactions about different decisions. Like, I Think you have to, like, put this plot together, these themes together, through very careful attention to things that she's saying. But, like. And sometimes that would be fine. That would be subtle. It would be just like, oh, it's very subtle writing. But in this case, it just feels a little careless to me. It feels like parts of the script were edited out. That's how I feel about it. Like, I feel like more. Could have been. More scaffolding could have been put into this plot. You know what I mean? [02:12:34] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. I mean, it's taken me how long. When did this movie come out? 92. And we're in 2026. This is the first time I ever thought of it. So it's taken all this time for me to put that together. Yeah. They should have done better. Yeah. [02:12:54] Speaker A: More Terrier Queen was needed. More Kate and Terry o' Quinn together. [02:12:57] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. [02:12:59] Speaker A: Well, anyway, I think. Yeah, I do think you're right. That's where her problems are coming from. We'll see a little bit more of that as we get into this plot here. [02:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:13:06] Speaker A: We also have this random scene where Doug's watching Kate's old routine, and he, like, rewinds the part where her skin. Kate, play. Digs into the partner's shoulder. And this is like, what I was talking before. It's like, is this some big controversy that we don't realize that Kate was partly causing this problem? Like, because it seemed obvious to me when I looked at it the first time. Right. [02:13:24] Speaker B: What? [02:13:25] Speaker A: So he's like, oh. Oh, my goodness. And now we're the Olympics in Alberville, France. And, yeah, there's this. They're. They're going out on the ice for their short program, I think. And Kate tells Doug to button his shirt button. And he won't do it. He doesn't like the way it feels. And they go out to do their skating. I notice on this performance that the music they're playing has, like, a weird car revving sounds in it. Like, what is up with that? [02:13:54] Speaker B: They're revving up. They're gonna kick some ass in their muscle car music sound. I don't know. Yeah. [02:14:03] Speaker A: And the commentators basically say that their performance is fine technically, but something is missing, as if we were seeing two strangers instead of a fluid pair. Yeah. And then after they. Their performance, Kate tells a person that's interviewing them that they're not doing their new move anymore. And Doug's like, what? What? [02:14:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:14:23] Speaker A: And this. Now we have the big fight in the conference room or whatever scene with the dad and the Coach and Doug and Kate and Terry o' Quinn is mad at Doug. Doug defends himself, says, like, Kate has some responsibility for, like, she's pushed her partners away or she helped lose or something like that. And then Kate's like, doug is right. [02:14:43] Speaker B: Yes. [02:14:44] Speaker A: Do you want to tell more about this? Because you're the one noticing her particular arc here, I think. [02:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So everyone's, you know, ready to blame Doug for the performance today and about the button and. And Doug says, you guys are all a bunch of excuses. And, you know, Kate has a part in all this too, and the dad's all pissed about it, and, like, how dare you talk about my daughter that way? And she's like, it's right. And. And he's right. And her dad goes, you know, what do you want? And she goes, I guess I would like to go back to the beginning and have you say, win or lose, I could just be your daughter. And she apologizes to, you know, her coach and. And to Doug, you know, so sorry for being such a pain. And she walks away crying. And then. Yeah, there's a sad, mopey montage. [02:15:42] Speaker A: Yeah. They're both, like, in separate places, like, staring out windows and drinking coffees at cafes or something. It's like you have, like, I don't know, 12, 15 hours. I don't know. Know, Talk to each other maybe. Like. [02:15:55] Speaker B: Right. [02:15:56] Speaker A: Don't go off in your separate, sad, mopey montage modes. [02:16:00] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, but she is in the scene wearing his sweat. His sweater. [02:16:05] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [02:16:07] Speaker B: Thank you. [02:16:08] Speaker A: Good noticing. Good noticing. [02:16:10] Speaker B: Oh, I've noticed that for a long time. [02:16:12] Speaker A: Oh, all right. [02:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, you're right. [02:16:17] Speaker A: Well, this is, you know, classic movie device. We can't resolve it things until the last moment. Right. [02:16:21] Speaker B: So. Yes. [02:16:23] Speaker A: Just throw a sad, mopey montage in there. Why not? You've already had, like, 10 other montages, so, you know, one more isn't gonna kill you. [02:16:31] Speaker B: Final montage. [02:16:34] Speaker A: All right, so the next day, Doug sees that Kate is all packed up. She tells him that right after they perform that day, she's retiring from ice skating and going home. And. Yeah. And she's not even gonna ride into the Olympics. Olympics, you know, with him. So it's like, all right. Weird. [02:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:16:54] Speaker A: Get another device to just, like, have everything happen at the last minute. Right? [02:16:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:16:59] Speaker A: Because now they're going to their Olympics long program. Their finale of the movie. They're wearing these really nice black and white costumes. Now before they go onto the ice, Pamchenko says, enjoy each other. [02:17:10] Speaker B: Yes. [02:17:11] Speaker A: And. And Doug is Wants to confess to Kate how he feels about her. But people keep saying, get on the ice. Get it on the ice. She's like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Finally, he gets Kate to listen to her, and he says, kate, somewhere in the middle of all of this, I fell in love with you. I'm saying I love you. I'm saying it out loud. [02:17:31] Speaker B: Yes. [02:17:32] Speaker A: Ah, you like it. It works for you. Yay. [02:17:38] Speaker B: Finally, right at the last minute, it should have said it. [02:17:42] Speaker A: Well, she doesn't say it back yet, but she's like, no, but she tears up a little bit. She tears up a little bit, and she says, we're doing the Pamchenko. And she smiles. [02:17:54] Speaker B: So lame. So lame. [02:17:58] Speaker A: What, you don't like that part? [02:18:00] Speaker B: Oh, it's so corny. We're doing it. What? [02:18:03] Speaker A: He's like, you don't have to. It's too dangerous. [02:18:05] Speaker B: She's like, no. Oh, I want to kick a little ass. And so they. Yep, they put it in. Yep, they put it in. [02:18:13] Speaker A: So she's all happy now. There's. They skate well. They do a great final routine. We. We finally get to see Doug's brother again, who he didn't invite to the goddamn Olympics that Terry o' Quinn probably would have paid for him to come to. [02:18:25] Speaker B: What the. I don't know who was going to run the bar while he was gone. [02:18:30] Speaker A: Geez. [02:18:31] Speaker B: All these terrible reasons why he couldn't go. But he's watching on the tv. The whole bar is watching back home. Yay. [02:18:39] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that's how we know that he now supports his brother's figure skating. Yeah. [02:18:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:18:45] Speaker A: Of course they do the Pamchenko. Fantastic. They do the impossible throwing. Spinning and throwing in the air and catching move. And they edited it very well so it looks realistic, but it is not. It is not at all. [02:18:58] Speaker B: Yes. I'm glad it was a dummy there and not a real person. [02:19:03] Speaker A: And as Doug dips Kate into the final part of their move and he's holding her there, Kate says she loves him, too. Doug says, just remember who said it first. And they kiss, and the movie ends. Final thoughts on the film. Anything about the film as a whole before we talk a little bit about the sequels. [02:19:26] Speaker B: I mean, it's just delightfully corny, you know, and all unbelievable and over the top and trophy. [02:19:32] Speaker A: Very tropic. [02:19:33] Speaker B: It hits the spot. I mean, because I have such a. Because I saw it so long ago, and at the time, like, all these problems I didn't notice before or think to question, you know, as a young person and so I've just have let. Let it all go over the years. [02:19:52] Speaker A: So you're just saying, like, this is like this because it has that nostalgia for you, though. So you'll keep watching this one and. [02:19:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But tell me about the cutting edge sequels. [02:20:04] Speaker A: Yes. So my library. My library was in possession of all three of the cutting edge sequels on dvd. The first one is called the Cutting Edge Going for the Gold. And this is from 2006. ABC Family released it and then gave it the DVD release. Jackie Dorsey is the main character. She is the daughter of Kate and Doug, who of course have been recast with different actors. After an injury, she decides to switch from single to pair skating because she won't have to do things that are quite as athletic in pair skating. She won't have to make leaps that are quite as high, as many axles or whatever. The unlikely partner in this movie is an inline skater and surfer who has been training for the X Games. There's a relic like, of the past, the X Games. They might still be going on, but that just reminds me of the whole Extreme era, you know what I mean? And he's been dropped by his sponsors, though, because he's unreliable at showing up for meetings and stuff. So, like, it has some very similar story beats to the original, including, like, the guy in this one has a fiance. The fiance character is just silly. But I did like the female lead. I thought she was good, an interesting character and it was kind of fun. Even though it was super cheesy, having the inline skating and surfing element. It was cheesy, but kind of fun at the same time. What can I tell you? Now, the next two, I accidentally watched in the wrong order. I didn't think they connected to each other, but they did. The next one, the proper order is the next one. The next one is called the Cutting Edge Chasing the dream from 2008. Also ABC family. This is linked to the previous sequel because Jackie Dorsey, who was a figure skater in the last movie, is now suddenly a figure skating coach only two years later. I don't know. So she's a figure skating coach now and she's teaching. She's training this new pair. The main character, Zach's partner, has injured her ankle and has to find and he has to find a new partner. He chooses a woman named Alexandra Delgado. He sees her playing hockey and this is why he chooses her. But also, she has figure skating ambitions. And they do the Pamchenko in this one. And I was really hoping that the hockey was going to come into this more because I thought, oh, female hockey player. That's pretty cool. I would have liked more of that energy, but no, it's pretty much dropped right away. And she just really wanted to be a figure skater the whole time, so too bad. And then finally, the cutting edge fire and ice. ABC Family 2010. This makes the bold choice of breaking up Alexandra Delgado from Zach from the previous movie. They're broken up. They're not together anymore, and now she's gonna have a new skater to fall in love with. James McKenzie, a speed skater who's been banned from speed skating because of his aggressive behavior towards a teammate. And he's a little bit like an influencer, too. Like, as much as you were in 2010. And yeah, they have very fire and ice. They have very different personalities, and they have to learn to work together. And I do think the guy in this had pretty good chemistry with her, so it had its points. But none of these are great movies. Okay. This is only, like, if you want to be a figure skating opposites attract completist, you can watch these movies. [02:23:24] Speaker B: Excellent. [02:23:24] Speaker A: If you're having a weird day and you're just like, all I want to do is watch really corny figure skating romance. This will. This will be great. But, yeah, anyway, so this is DB Sweeney and Moira Kelly turned down opportunities to be in the sequels. He told yahoo. Entertainment in 2022. I think that the great reboot would be Moira and I ended up with different partners in life, and, you know, and we each have kids, and maybe the kids come together in hockey or in figure skating or whatever, and. And then she and I somehow rekindle, you know, I think that would be a good formula, actually. And I'm inclined to agree with him. I think that would be fun. [02:24:07] Speaker B: I don't want them to have any kind of breakup. [02:24:10] Speaker A: But, you know those movies where, like, people, like. [02:24:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:24:13] Speaker A: Remarriage movies like. Like in the Parent Trap or something. That could be. Yeah, I guess we wouldn't see the breakup. We would see the rekindling. [02:24:20] Speaker B: Okay. I guess. [02:24:22] Speaker A: I don't know. Well, I think it works. I think they should retcon all these other sequels and they should make that one instead. [02:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. If there's more of them and we see more of their. Like, I want to see them fall in love sooner and then see more of them in a nice relationship together, getting along, you know? [02:24:48] Speaker A: All right, so let's do our double feature recommendations for other movies that you may be interested in and TV shows. In one case, that you may be interested in, if you like the cutting edge. And let's go back and forth. We always do batches, but let's go back and forth this time. So, Sophia, what's your first pick? [02:25:03] Speaker B: Okay, my first one goes back to 1978. I don't know if it's the original ice skating movie, but that's what I'm calling it. It's Ice Castles. This has Colleen Dewurst. Tom. Is it Scarrett? [02:25:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Tom Skerrett's in it. I like him. Yes. [02:25:25] Speaker B: And Robbie Benson. Do you know who Robbie Benson is? [02:25:29] Speaker A: Nope. [02:25:30] Speaker B: Okay. You saw Beauty and the Beast, the cartoon. He's the voice of the Beast. [02:25:34] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [02:25:35] Speaker B: Did you ever see Severance? Did you get into Severance? [02:25:37] Speaker A: No. No. [02:25:38] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. Well, he's like, he's older now. He's a young guy and he's like the heartthrob in Ice Castles. And the girl who plays the lead girl, I think she was in this movie and then went after and that was it. She could obviously ice skate, not really act so well. So Ice Castles is about this girl who's an ice skater and her coach, played by Colleen Dewhurst, thinks that she could really go far. And they go to, like, their regional competition and a high end coach sees her and then goes to their, like, you know, podunk little town and little ice rink and inquires about her. But this girl's 16 and she didn't start skating until just recently. And like, it's so funny to hear because they mentioned that figures thing, you know, they're like, oh, she doesn't have that training. And then coach is like ready to walk out. But like, her, Colleen Dewhurst like, says, come on, give her a try, you know? And so they whisk this girl away, 16 years old, to this, like, I don't know, training area where there's a bunch of other girls and dorms or whatever, and she's got a camera crew following her around and she's the new big thing and like, everybody's yelling at her, come on, practice more and do it again. And it's like just awful, but, like, true. What I like about it is it's, you know, it's grit because it's from 78. It's just got like a whole gritty feeling to it. Very real. People have real teeth, people have real lines on their face. It's amazing and it's so corny. And it's very problematic as well because there's like this older guy who's into this 16 year old and you're like, oh, God. We used to think this was okay and it's not. But as like an OG ice skating movie, worth the watch. [02:27:37] Speaker A: All right. I've definitely heard of Ice Castles, so, yeah, I don't know if I'm going to watch it anytime soon. I think I'm burnt out of skating movies for a while, but for sure, maybe. All right, so my first pick is. Okay, probably half our listeners are already watching this. This, but it's the TV show Heated Rivalry from 2025, which is going to be a continuing series based on a series of books by Rachel Reed. Okay. So I thought maybe it would be overhyped. And I was like, well, I'm gonna watch some of it because, you know, it's my duty as like a rom com podcaster to watch new romances. And then I watched it and I was like, hooked in and like the first two episodes, not as much like I liked them, but like, they're more. A little bit more surface level, a little bit more like smutty and, you know, cute guys and like montages and stuff. But once you get to episode three, episode three is a really perfect episode of television. Very. It's like a mini romantic movie within a TV show. And then once you get past that, episode four and five get into some really deep issues, especially in terms of like, gay men and what it's like to have to be closeted and stuff like that. And then the end of episode five is so beautiful. Like one of the most beautiful things I've seen in years. And then episode six is such a great. Ties everything together. It's wonderful. It is a wonderful experience. People should watch it. Anybody should watch it. Like, it's. It's just a beautiful love story. If you love romance, you should be watching this show. That's all I'm going to say. I ended up reading the book as well. I didn't like the book as much, but to be fair, the. The show follows the book very closely. It's just, I think like the director, I think the director Jacob Tierney really brought out the best in the story and the actors, the lead actors, Connor Story and Hudson Williams and Francois Arnault, they are play the characters so well. The acting is very good. The cinematography is good. The production values are good. Good. Everything. I've been complaining about that other romantic movies and shows on streaming don't have. This has. So yeah, this is my highest recommendation for Heated Rivalry. I am on what they call my third reheat right now. Instead of Rewatch. They call it reheat. And this time I'm watching it with my husband. [02:29:53] Speaker B: So yeah, I gotta, I need to keep going with it. I started a little bit, but I. But that's what I've heard. It's like so vulnerable and, and just really beautiful. [02:30:04] Speaker A: You need to get to episode three before you decide what you think of it. If you watch part of episode three and you're not hooked in, then maybe it's not the show for you. But I would advise anybody not to quit until they've gotten to episode three at least. So. [02:30:17] Speaker B: Okay, good. That's fair. Nice. Okay. My second double feature is Blades of Glory from 2007 starring Will Ferrell and John Peter. Amy Poehler and Will Arnett are also in it. And I am usually not a fan of these super duper over the top semi raunchy comedies. This one hit so good though. Oh gosh. And so they, you know, Will Ferrell and John Hader's character are rival single skaters. They have completely different styles but they get ex expelled somehow and they decide to be team up as pair partners and they find a loophole to be a same sex pairs team and, and they do a sort of Pamchenko kind of maneuver and it's so lethal. The people who have tried it in the past, their heads get cut off and. Oh God, it's so funny. I laughed so, so hard and it was just what I needed in these dark times. [02:31:29] Speaker A: Okay, you kind of sold me on that. I'm not even usually a Will Ferrell fan, but that sounds kind of funny. So, so good. [02:31:34] Speaker B: And he learned how to skate. It was, I'm watching it and I'm like, and I'm looking it up. I'm like, did they learn how to escape for the show? They both did. And he does a really decent job. [02:31:45] Speaker A: Nice. [02:31:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:31:47] Speaker A: All right, so my next double feature recommendation is going to be one that I really think you should watch. Sophia, you could watch it with ABG on the Disney Channel. Very kid friendly. It is called Ice Princess and It is from 2005 and it stars Michelle Trachtenberg. She plays a really smart girl who is headed towards the Ivy League. But she like, through a physics project, she inadvertently gets into ice skating and realizes she's actually quite talented at ice skating too. And her mom is played by Joan Cusack. Joan Cusack really doesn't want her anywhere near ice skating. She wants her daughter to go into the Ivy League as planned. She really like, she's very much values like intellect and achievement on that Level. And she has a very dismissive attitude towards ice skating and the ice skating. There's another mother daughter pair in this played by Kim Cattrall and Hayden Panettiere. And Hayden Panettiere is like a, a figure skater who's trying to like be competitive and like she's this classmate of Michelle Trachtenberg's and they don't really get along at first until they start skating together. And Kim Cattrall is her coach and her mother and all the actresses are great in this. I love seeing Kim Cattrall and things. I love Joan Cusack, Hayden Pentier. I love her from the Scream movies and Michelle Trachtenberg. I've seen her in a couple of things too. She's really good here. It's a great like movie about like mother daughter relationships. It's a great movie about deciding what you really want to do with your life. Like what is your passion versus like what is maybe what your mom's plan for you might be. And it has some really fun ice skating competition scenes. Like there's actually a surprising amount of like fun scenes of different skaters at that rink that she's practicing at competing. And there's a little teen romance in there too. I think they could have cast a little bit more compelling guy for that. But it's, it's kind of the side point, you know what I mean? It's one of those movies, it's more about a girl's self realization and maybe her relationship with her mom than it is about the romance. But like, seriously, a sweet movie. Much better than I would have expected it to be. Like, really worth checking out. [02:33:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Very good, very good. Okay. My last one is a documentary and it's very sad actually. It's called, it's called Harley and Katya. They were real ice skaters not that long ago. He's Australian, she was Russian. And he started skating late, but he just had an incredible knack for it. And somehow they got hooked up to be pair skaters together. So she is sent from Russia to live in Australia and it's, and they do really well. But she, it's, it's, it's very sad. She has a lot of in trouble. She's very isolated. She doesn't really speak English and so she's just, you know, more and more isolated and she takes a fall or gets dropped or something and gosh, they're really blase and laissez faire about like concussions and people getting ice skaters getting concussions and like, yeah, it's gonna happen a few Times, you know, girls get dropped. It's. It happens. And it's like, Jesus, like, can you be a little more, like, serious about it? Anyway, it. It was good and informative about, like, how these kids and skaters, how their, you know, lives are kind of controlled around, like, where the money comes from and how they can get funding. And if you aren't somebody like Kate Mosley, who's independently wealthy, like, you're dependent on, like, a lot of sponsors and organizations and people, and you are at their whim, you know, and who's really looking out for you. And here's this young woman, this young teenager who's away from her mom. No one's really, like, standing up for her and looking out for her, and she gets, you know, the short end of the stick in a lot of ways. So I don't want to spoil it, but it's sad, and you can look it up, too. All right, true, but good, good, good. Good to watch. [02:36:04] Speaker A: Well, I'm not in the mood for sad right now, but if I am, I will. I will keep it in mind. Yeah, we got a lot of sad in the world right now. [02:36:12] Speaker B: I know. [02:36:12] Speaker A: Although. Although, my last recommendation has its sad moments, too. Okay, so my final recommendation. So I was intrigued by this one because it's about a girl whose ambition is to play hockey rather than be a figure skater. And I was really looking for that. I was like, oh, wouldn't it be cool to have a girls movie about hockey, like, instead of just figure skating? So, yeah, this one's called Riviere. It came out in 2023. It's a very small film. It's in the French language. I can't remember if it. What country it comes from, but it's in French, and I found it on Tubi. And it's basically about a girl. She's got some, like, family problems, and she comes into this town to stay. She's trying to stay with her dad, who isn't there, so she ends up staying with her dad's new girlfriend, and at the same time, she's hanging out with these kids who are at the local skating rink, and she's kind of fooling around on the ice, and she ends up getting recruited into the boys skating team because she's so good. And at the same time, she's developing an interest in another girl who's a figure skater, and they develop a little romance. But there are, like, some really sad moments in this movie, too. [02:37:20] Speaker B: So it's. [02:37:21] Speaker A: It's a drama. I would say, overall, it's not going to leave you too sad. But like, it's also not like a feel good movie. Okay. It's more of like an indie drama. But I like that it. I do like that it's about, though, a girl who's becoming a hockey player because it gives us a little bit of a different gender take on the whole thing, you know, rather than like girls play girls figure skate and boys play hockey. Like, it's like, no, girls can play hockey too. And so here you are. So riviere on tubi, if you're interested. Free. Yeah. [02:37:55] Speaker B: Nice. [02:37:56] Speaker A: And just a little honorable mention shout out to I, Tanya from 2017, which I did watch for some prep. I think it does more than a lot of movies about ice skating to actually give you a little insight into the. Some of the technical aspects of the sport and some of the political aspects of the sport. And of course, Alison Janney won an Oscar for her supporting role in that. So. [02:38:17] Speaker B: Oh, my God, she was fantastic and awful and so good. Yeah. Yeah. [02:38:26] Speaker A: Anyway, it's been really great talking with you again, Sophia, and we'll do it again soon. Soon we will be continuing the sports series. It may be a little slower than it has been in the past, but we're doing our best over here. [02:38:39] Speaker B: Yeah, awesome. It's been great. [02:38:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And hopefully we'll have episodes coming out about bent at Lake Beckham and potentially Run Fat Boy Run. So listen out for those and yeah, thanks for listening, everybody. Goodbye. [02:38:52] Speaker B: Bye.