Every Rom Com 83: Love and Basketball

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Jen. [00:00:01] Speaker B: And I'm Sybil. [00:00:03] Speaker A: And you're listening to Every Rom com, the podcast where we have fun taking romantic comedies seriously. [00:00:09] Speaker B: This week on every rom com, we're looking at sports from a woman's perspective as we cover a film written and directed by Gina Prince. Bythewood, we'll take a brief look at [00:00:18] Speaker A: the history of US Women's basketball. [00:00:21] Speaker B: We'll talk about gender roles in sports and relationships. [00:00:24] Speaker A: And we'll explore sports movies that are also coming of age stories as we discuss the classic romance, love and basketball. Hello, Sybil. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Hey, Jennifer. I'm so excited to be here talking about this movie. When you first started talking about the next kind of segments we were doing, this was the film I wanted to do more than anything. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. And like, this is interesting. I can't wait till we talk about our general opinion because we have, like, very different journeys with this movie, so that'll be interesting to compare. Yeah, this movie is definitely was on my radar, but like, your enthusiasm is what brought it to the fore here. And we already talked about, on a previous episode in our sports Rom com series, we already talked about kind of some of our favorite sports rom coms and sports movies. This time, I kind of wanted to just briefly do an introduction here where we talk about what relationship we had to sports as children. Because this movie, Love and Basketball, starts when the lead characters are 11 years old. So I just kind of wanted to talk to you about, like, what relationship did you have with sports growing up? And also I'll share what relationship I had. [00:01:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I hate sports and I love sports movies, but I hate sports. I didn't play any sports. I did them for PE and it was always horrible. And I was more of a reading kid, so that's that. But in high school, I did. I was a statistician, and essentially I was statistician for track and field and for basketball. So it's one of the few things that I kind of know the rules to. Not super well, but I can keep the stats. Awesome. [00:02:24] Speaker A: That's cool. I'm glad that you know something about basketball too, because, like, basketball is a game. Okay. So I'm tall and I've always been tall. Like, I was like six foot tall in the eighth grade. Okay. So of course, like back in the 80s and 90s, all the adults would be like, oh, you should play basketball. I really didn't like basketball, so. And. And I think the fact that all these adults kept telling me I should play basketball and highlighting how tall I was, which is something I got made fun of for, I think that made me like basketball even. You know what I mean? [00:02:55] Speaker B: That's really funny because in this movie, when you watch it, both of our, our leads are so short compared to all the real basketball players who are, who are like, there's. Who are like the stand in actors. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. But like, for me, like, it was just this constant thing, right? And I didn't really like basketball. So what I was going to say is I really know very little about basketball. I played it in gym class. You know, I get sort of the basic outlines of the sport. But yeah, it's not a sport that I really grew up loving. And I too really didn't like sports that much when I was younger. But it was because I think I was. It was because partly I was a kid who got picked on a lot. And if you're a kid who gets picked on a lot in school, gym class is like kind of one of the worst parts of your day, right? Because, like, there's stuff going on like kids will pick you for a team or they won't pick you for a team. And. And they would specifically not pick me for teams. Even when I was like a good player. There were a couple of things I was pretty good at, like dodgeball. I would always get picked last anyway because I was not popular. And, and, and also you have to wear those little gym shorts and stuff, and it's like humiliating. [00:04:01] Speaker B: They're the worst. They're the worst. Whoever designs those are like monsters. [00:04:04] Speaker A: And then in middle school you have to like, get dressed in front of other kids and undressed. And it was just like a whole stew of things I did not like. Um, then my parents told me. My parents encouraged me in high school to take up one sport and so I took up soccer. And I hated that too, because. And the reason I didn't like it was not because I didn't like soccer. I thought, like, it was kind of fun, but like the sport itself. But if I screwed up on the field, like, the other kids would yell at me, right? And like. And I just didn't need any more of that stress in my life, basically. So I kind of had a bad relationship with sports, but it was more because of my social position in school. I think the. [00:04:43] Speaker B: I don't like being. I don't like being hurt. And I felt find that sports are very injurious to my body. So I, I don't want to be at all. Like, I. One time in PE, in Soccer. I slipped on the field and knocked all the wind out of me and smashed my head on a rock and I had to be taken off the field on a stretcher. And I was after them. They really didn't make me play too much. I got to, like, sit on the bench and stuff. [00:05:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. That's not. That's not fun. No. [00:05:09] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I'm not a big fan. Also, this is an interesting movie to talk about basketball because you don't actually see much basketball in this movie at all. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Like, although it's very deep into basketball, it's not like a Hoosiers or something. It's. There's barely any playing that you see of basketball. [00:05:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Funny enough, like another episode in our sports rom com series. The writer and director of Bull Durham said that I'm paraphrasing here, but he said, roughly, one of the biggest mistakes you can make in a sports movie is having too much sports. [00:05:38] Speaker B: So. Correct. That's 100. Right. Because people like, how do you like sports movies so much? You don't know anything about sports and you don't like sports. I'm like, it's not about sports, sports. It's about the feel of the sports. It's the passion, it's the drive, it's the. It's the underdog stories. I love it. [00:05:54] Speaker A: But I will say, like. So I was saying I didn't like, like sports that much when I was growing up, but, like, there's another side to that too. Like, when I was really little, I liked playing baseball with my dad. Like, when I was really little, at a certain point he tried to start, like, training me to be, like, a good baseball player and, like, do things more correctly. And I was like, so stubborn as a kid. And I just wanted to have fun. So that. And then my brother was born and he was more amenable, so my dad started training him instead. And then I kind of fell off with baseball, too. But if there's any sport that I kind of like as, like a team sport that I kind of like playing, I guess it would be baseball. It's the one I understand the best. We went to baseball games when I was growing up. I always thought they were kind of fun. And then. And I like that there's, like a variety of things you do in baseball. You know, you're hitting, you're running, you're catching, you know, there's a lot of fallow time too, which I kind of like. Baseball is my favorite of all the sports to play. Like, but I Guess I do other sporty things too. I like swimming. I liked roller skating. Yeah. And yoga, which isn't really sport so much. I tend to like individual and non competitive things more. I don't know, are there, are there any sort of adjacent things, like, related to sports that you like? [00:07:07] Speaker B: I like dancing. [00:07:08] Speaker A: There you go. [00:07:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I love dancing, but, yeah, that's pretty much it. I don't like really any sport. Anything that requires a ball or competitiveness, I'm not about. [00:07:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Was there ever a point where you liked sort of casual sports playing? Like, you know, like, I kind of like playing volleyball a little bit too. If it's just casual, that can be fun. Like at a family reunion. [00:07:31] Speaker B: I hate, I hate all of it. [00:07:33] Speaker A: I don't like sweat. [00:07:35] Speaker B: I don't like outside. I don't like to sweat. I don't like to be dirty. And I. I don't generally love hanging out with a lot of people in that way either. [00:07:44] Speaker A: Like, I don't like competitiveness. Yeah, yeah. I try not to make it competitive when I do stuff like that. Like, volleyball for me is just like pure fun. And if people start getting weird with it, I'm just like, nope, we're playing in the wrong. Playing in the wrong game here. [00:07:58] Speaker B: I mean, I would, I would 100% watch a bunch of people play volleyball if they were hot and naked. I'm here for. I love watching rugby players. They're super hot. I don't mind soccer players, but I'm not watching for the sport at all. I'm watching clips. [00:08:13] Speaker A: That's interesting too, because I find watching sports, like, way less interesting than playing them too. Like, if I had to choose watch a sport or play a sport. Well, granted, right now I have long Covid, so I can't play as things that I used to play. But back when I was healthy, if I could choose between watching and playing, I would choose playing. [00:08:31] Speaker B: No, totally, totally get that. [00:08:34] Speaker A: So, yeah, we'll wrap up our conversation on sports. I'll see if we have any future guests on the show who have any sports backgrounds in their childhood. But Sybil and I, we are not Sporty Spice over here. No, no. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Before we get started today, a few notes first. As usual, the beginning of the episode will have a spoiler free section, but listen out for our spoiler warning when it comes. If you haven't ever watched the movie or if you just care about spoilers. [00:09:00] Speaker A: We'd also like to remind you that you can follow the podcast on social media. Our Facebook page is everyromcom podcast. And blog. Our Instagram is very Romcom. Our Twitter handle is very Romcom Pod. And you can also find us on BlueSkyryromcom. [00:09:18] Speaker B: And as always, you can find the [email protected]. send us feedback at feedback every romcom.com and if you like what you hear, please rate, review and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts because it really does help. [00:09:33] Speaker A: You can also now listen to our episodes on our YouTube channel at every rom com podcast. Please Visit us on YouTube today and hit the subscribe button. [00:09:43] Speaker B: Also ask for notifications. Make sure you get the notifications as well so you know when everything is launched. [00:09:49] Speaker A: And now let's get into the episode by listening to the trailer for Love and Basketball. [00:09:55] Speaker B: Can I play? [00:09:56] Speaker C: All right. [00:09:56] Speaker B: You and Kelvin against me and Jamal. Aw, man, he's a girl. Girl can't play no ball ball better than you. [00:10:05] Speaker A: I'm gonna be the first girl in the NBA. No, I'm gonna be in the NBA. [00:10:08] Speaker B: You gonna be my cheerleader. [00:10:17] Speaker C: They play the same game if you [00:10:19] Speaker D: don't stall a bad attitude. [00:10:21] Speaker C: Attitude. [00:10:21] Speaker B: 30 for 5. [00:10:22] Speaker D: No one's gonna recruit you. I'm a ball player with a jacked up attitude. [00:10:27] Speaker C: They share the same dream. [00:10:29] Speaker B: You'd love him to play USC like you did, right? [00:10:31] Speaker A: No, I'd love for him to get a good education. [00:10:33] Speaker B: I don't know why I keep hoping [00:10:35] Speaker C: you'll grow out of this tomboy thing. I won't. I'm a lesbian. [00:10:39] Speaker A: That's not funny. [00:10:43] Speaker D: Damn, you don't look half bad. [00:10:45] Speaker C: You either. [00:10:48] Speaker D: How about a little one on one? [00:10:49] Speaker A: What we playing for? [00:10:50] Speaker D: I score, you strip. Take it off. [00:10:52] Speaker A: Take it off. [00:10:54] Speaker C: Strip. [00:10:54] Speaker B: All spam loving basketball, baby. [00:10:59] Speaker A: There's only one way to be successful [00:11:01] Speaker B: at anything and that is to give everything. [00:11:05] Speaker C: Coach has us on 11 o' clock curfew. I can stay a few more minutes. [00:11:09] Speaker A: I'm sweating. [00:11:10] Speaker C: I'm sorry I don't have it easy like you. [00:11:14] Speaker D: All right? [00:11:14] Speaker C: There's no red carpet laid out for me. [00:11:19] Speaker A: All right, I'm gonna cut the trailer there. And actually I might edit part of it out because this is one of those trailers that spoils a bunch of things. [00:11:25] Speaker B: You just heard the whole movie, folks. [00:11:27] Speaker A: That no, because I'm cutting it. You're not gonna hear the whole movie because I'm gonna cut it before I get it to you. To you. [00:11:33] Speaker B: It really is. It really is a trailer that tells everything. [00:11:36] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know why they do that. It's so weird. [00:11:39] Speaker B: People want to know what's going to happen in the theater? Yeah, they want to feel secure, maybe. [00:11:44] Speaker A: I don't know. It's weird. Anyway, so Love and basketball was released April 16, 2000. It was written and directed by Gina Prince Bythewood. It stars Sanaa Lathan and Omar Epps. [00:12:00] Speaker B: The basic premise of this film is it follows the lives of Monica and Quincy. Monica has just moved in and they're becoming neighbors and they both love basketball. And we have Quincy, who his dad is actually already a professional basketball player. So he's like, kind of in it where she's a girl and, like, girls shouldn't be playing basketball. Right. So the film starts when they're 11, and it goes all the way through high school and college and their adult years. And I think it's really interesting because it puts it in quarters like it would in a basketball game. And they deal with their challenges of pursuing sports careers, the difficulties of their lives and families, and kind of the changing feelings about each other as well as the game that they've, you know, have a passion for. [00:12:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So there's a fair amount of interesting facts to know about this movie. A lot of information I was able to gather from the Criterion Disc that they recently put out of Love and Basketball. But also there are a lot of articles about this movie. It's a very beloved movie, but here are some of the facts about the film. So Love and Basketball was a very personal project to writer director Gina Prince Bythewood. It was partly based on her own experiences growing up as a tomboy and athlete. She also always enjoyed writing love stories. And in the making of documentary on the Criterion Disc, she said she wanted to make a black version of When Harry Met Sally. And when she says that, I can really see it because both stories, you know, take place over the course of, you know, many years. [00:13:26] Speaker B: Right. Of time period. And also they're both growing up in that period. I mean, When Harry Met Sally, they're not as young, but, like, you. You definitely see, like, them as people and grow and change. [00:13:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And also it's friends to lovers, so, yeah, it's same kind of romance genre, too, so totally makes sense to me. Love and Basketball was initially the script for Love and Basketball was initially turned down by everybody. But then the Sundance Institute was interested in it and they invited Prince Bythewood to bring her script to their writer's lab and then their director's lab, and then they offered her a chance to stage a reading of it in front of industry people. So that was her breakthrough. Sanaa Lathan, who would go on to play Monica in the movie, read the part at the Sundance reading. So she wasn't cast at that point, but she just happened to be the person who read the part there. [00:14:19] Speaker B: That's cool. [00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, she was early in. And then through that reading, Spike Lee's production company became interested in the movie and Lee became a producer on the film. So when casting the movie, initially, even though Sanaa Latham had done a really great job at the Sundance reading, Prince Bythewood was hoping that she was going to find a basketball player who could act rather than an actress who could play basketball. She looked at around 700 different actors and basketball players for the role of Monica. And it's so funny because she did such an extensive casting search and then it all comes back to the person who had already read the role. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:58] Speaker A: So the problem with Sanaa Lathan apparently at first for Prince Bythewood, though, was she had no prior basketball experience. So she was training at basketball for three months before she even received the role, just on the chance that she would be cast in it. [00:15:13] Speaker B: That's. That's awesome. Like, that's like dedication. [00:15:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. There was another finalist too at that time, so Nisha Butler, who was primarily a basketball player, was. Was the other finalist. And what got Sonalith in the role eventually is that she realized that she was making a love story first rather than a basketball story first. And she said, quote, we can fake a jump shot, but you can't fake a close up. So the actor won out in the end. [00:15:41] Speaker B: I was about to say, like, best choice she made because she uses a bunch of, like, real life basketball players and coaches and stuff during this film, which I appreciate it, but none of them have to, like, act very much because, let's be real, if you're really good at as a basketball player, you're probably not an amazing actor. [00:15:57] Speaker A: I mean, there are people. There are people who make it happen, but. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Yeah, you think they're amazing. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Well, no, I mean, there is. One of the people in this movie was primarily a basketball player who I think did a great job. So we'll get to that later, though. Yeah. So Lathan worked on her skills on bat in basketball with the movie's basketball advisor, Colleen Matsuhara, and Prince Bythewood had Lathan carry a basketball with her everywhere during this period of time. Lathan eventually got good enough to perform very credibly in the movie. She even does things like dribbling two basketballs at once, which you can see in the movie. Omar Epps also worked on his skills with the Basketball Advisor. He had never played organized basketball, but he had prior experience in youth football, martial arts and boxing. And Sanaa Lathan and Omar Epps were actually dating during the casting process, but nobody knew about this until they were on set together. So I wasn't able to find like an exact, you know, what I feel to be a very good source for how long they dated. But the site Ranker said they dated from roughly 1999 to 2001 and they had met on a previous movie called the Wood. So young actors were cast to play the 11 year old versions of Monica and Quincy. Young Monica was played by Kyla Pratt and she told ESPN.com, i was about 11 or 12 and I got to play a tomboy. Growing up, I was the tomboy. I was the girl who was playing basketball or wrestling or fighting with my brothers, stuff like that. So for me, this role was like, oh, I get to be myself and Gina Prince Bythewood has a cameo in the movie. She appears in a montage where she's trying to get a loose ball on the floor the that Monica gets instead. And apparently the shot took way too many takes because Prince Bythewood could not prevent herself from really going for the ball and getting it before Lathan did. Yeah, she was just too competitive. So the movie had a Sundance premiere and despite Prince Bythewood's initial worries that it might not perform as well with white audiences, the film received a standing ovation. The film had a budget of between 15 and 20 million dollars and it made 27.7 million worldwide, which is not huge numbers. Like, I don't know what that was about, whether it was like the marketing or just the relative appeal of the film. But I mean, it did make a profit though. An ESPN article shares many quotes from women athletes who related to the film over the years, including WNBA player Nafisa Collier. She said it really is how it is for women basketball players. Even in high school, when I would go to the gym, I'd play guys who don't want a girl on their team. You start playing, you're better than all the guys. You're always underestimated as a girl. So love and basketball was really fun. Most people who play basketball in the WNBA and NBA have watched this movie. I don't know anyone who hasn't. And as I mentioned, Love and Basketball was added to the Criterion collection in 2021 and it was selected for the Library of Congress's national film registry in 2023. And it's a very influential, popular film [00:19:13] Speaker B: with many people that's super cool. I didn't actually know it had a Criterion edition that came out. I have a standard regular DVD that I bought, you know, when it first came out, so I'll have to upgrade to that Criterion. [00:19:24] Speaker A: So. Yeah, so you have a pretty long history with this movie, so. And you were the one who was really advocating to cover it, like, way. Like, it was on my long list, but you're the one who put it in the. The top of the list. So I want you to tell first, like, kind of your experience with this movie. [00:19:39] Speaker B: I saw this in theaters, and I really wanted to see it because, again, I have a soft spot for, you know, sports movies, coming of age story kind of things. And there's so few done from a women's pers. From, like, a woman's perspective. And there's so few that have actual, like, what I consider real romance. Like, usually the female character is just like a kind of a throwaway for the dude. Right. And so I really liked that this. Had that when I looked at the trailer for it at the time. And so I remember sitting in the theater and just absolutely loving this movie so much that I went to see it again the next day. Hmm. [00:20:12] Speaker A: Wow. [00:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:14] Speaker A: And then did you watch it much, like, in the intervening years? [00:20:18] Speaker B: No, but I bought the DVD as soon as it came out. And I show it to people, like, during, like, you know, we'd get to have get togethers. I'm like, oh, we should watch Love and Basketball. And I pull out Love in Basketball for people to watch, because I think so many people have not seen this film. I don't think it gets the love that it does deserve. Especially sports movies. It's very much, as you said, it ends up bottom of a list. And for me, I think it deserves to be much higher than that. And I know a lot of people will be like, well, because it's diverse. I'm like, no, because it's just a really good romance movie and sports film. [00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, for me, I hadn't seen this movie until. Let me think. I hadn't seen this movie until a couple years ago. And I think it's because, like, about four or five years ago, I mean, really during the Black Lives Matter movement, I became a lot more mindful about trying to expand my cultural horizons and watching, like, more diverse media. Like, it really has been a gift to do that because I've discovered so many great filmmakers and great authors through that process. And Love and Basketball was one of those movies that I hadn't seen and, and then I saw it. I'm like, oh, this is a very high quality movie. Like, I don't think my relationship, my feelings to the movie are not as strong as yours. I think it's because I'm not a very competitive person, at least in terms of like the way Monica's character is competitive in the movie. And I also like, I don't know, romances where someone falls in love with someone they knew as a kid just don't really appeal to me that much. Like it's not romantic to me or sexy. I can't even imagine like if I'd ended up with some dude that I knew in grade school, you know. So I don't know. I think that's. It's not a genre that I tend to go for as much in the romance. In the romance field. You know what I mean? [00:22:03] Speaker B: I actually think of this film. So I always think of this film as two people who are passionate about the same thing. And that's, and that what brings them together is their passion for the same. Like they're two people who can only understand each other because they have, they, they, they would choose their gift of basketball over the other person. And as we get farther in, you know, that comes up. But that's what I really thought was so intriguing about this film is that I love the idea of somebody who's so passionate about what they do and what they love and their talent at something that they will continue to strive to be the best at it even when there are obstacles in their way. [00:22:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's just, it's not in terms of romance in the romance genre. It's just not my preferred type, I guess. So I would just say, yeah, like I, it's. I definitely admire the, I admire the craft in the film though, and the script and the thoughtfulness and I admire the woman's perspective. Like this movie passes the Bechdel test so many times, right? [00:23:02] Speaker B: Oh yeah, exactly. [00:23:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So I've watched the movie a few times since I initially saw it a couple years ago. And like, I guess the reason it was in front of my mind is because like it's not as much of a calm a comedy. Like there's. And we've done a lot of things that are like more dramas and including like the movie. We kicked off this series with Challengers and I was trying to find more of like the typical rom com comedies for this series. [00:23:26] Speaker B: And yeah, again, Challengers is funnier than this film. You're absolutely correct. Like, there's, there's, there's less funny about this, about this movie and a lot more romance to this movie. And I actually think the romance has done pretty well considering it's primarily a sports movie. It balances that romance incredibly well. [00:23:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it really. I, I think the romance is really strong in this movie. And. Yeah. And yeah, I agree with you totally about the balance, too. So. Yeah. All right. Any more you want to tell about opinion or should we get into the cast and crew? [00:23:59] Speaker B: Let's get in the cast and crew. [00:24:01] Speaker A: All right, so I'm going to talk first about writer and director Gina Prince Bythewood. She was born June 10, 1969. She's biracial, and she was adopted at just a few weeks old by a Salvadoran German mother and a white father. She grew up in Pacific Grove, California, a community with very few black residents. And she told Vogue in 2020 that this environment was difficult for her at times. Quote, it was tough. I felt like I was on an island trying to hide myself. I was always reminded of my otherness. End quote. Prince Bythewood was very good at sports in school. She initially wanted to play college basketball, but instead became a UCLA track star. She told Vogue in the same interview that sports were a lifeline for her and they taught her to, quote, outwork everybody. And yeah, she brings this up a lot in her, you know, commentary tracks, too, and stuff. Talking about how sports really helped her develop into a filmmaker, too, because just some of the same skills and persistence, you know, outlook were helpful in the film industry. So initially her goal in attending UCLA was to become a writer for soap operas, but she became interested in directing film after watching great movies in her film program. [00:25:20] Speaker B: That's probably why she is so good at, like, writing the romance in there, because she has a background where she apparently loved soap, and soap is so much about romance. [00:25:29] Speaker A: Sure, sure. At first, she was actually rejected from UCLA's film school, but she appealed the decision by writing an impassioned letter to the head of the film department. And then she was admitted to the program after all. So she was like one of those people who just didn't take no for an answer. And she pushed, and sometimes that really pays off. She graduated from UCLA film school in 1991. Her first IMDb credit is for writing and directing her short thesis film Stitches, and that's actually on the Criterion dvd. I didn't have a chance to watch it yet, but two of her short films are included on that dvd. After graduation, she began writing for TV shows A Different World and South Central. And then in 1995, she received two Daytime Emmy nominations for an after school special that she wrote and directed called what about yout Friends? Which centered on the lives of three black girls approaching high school graduation. Prince Bythewood quit TV work for a time, though, in order to write Love and Basketball. And of course, that became her feature debut in 2000. In 2000, Prince Bythewood also directed the TV movie Disappearing Acts, which also stars Sanaa Lathan. And then her next feature as a writer director was not until the Secret Life of Bees in 2008. She also directed for TV in the 2000s on shows including Girlfriends and. And Everybody Hates Chris. But I really noticed that large gap between her feature films. Did she. [00:26:59] Speaker B: Did she, like, get pregnant? Do you know if she, like, got pregnant or something and had a baby? [00:27:03] Speaker A: She has children. I don't know if that's the time that that happened. [00:27:07] Speaker B: That's often what will happen, right? Is they'll have kids and then they take a stint of time off. [00:27:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that's, like, the. What happened in that case. I probably should have looked it up, but. Yeah, but. But I also. I feel like a lot of women directors are not given quite as many chances, so. [00:27:24] Speaker B: Especially women of color. Let's be real. [00:27:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So after. So 2008 was Secret Life of Bees, and then in 2014, she wrote and directed beyond the Lights. And actually, a fun fact. I have seen all of her films because I'm in this Facebook movie group and we do this thing called Deep Dive Games where we have to, like. We're get. We get assigned a group of creators and we have to choose one and watch everything that they made or we get penalized if we don't finish. I watched all of her films, so I've seen. I've seen the whole Prince Bythwood catalog at this point. I don't know if you've. I don't know if you've watched any of her other work. [00:28:02] Speaker B: I've seen some, but not because I like, stop them out. [00:28:05] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. Did you see beyond the Lights? [00:28:08] Speaker B: I've not seen beyond the Lights, but it's on my queue now because I was like, well, that's a sports movie. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Actually, it's more. She's a singer in that one. [00:28:16] Speaker B: Oh, is it okay? Because the COVID looks, like, sporty. [00:28:19] Speaker A: Maybe there's a. Maybe she was with a sports player. I can't remember that. Well. Well, anyway, the main Character anyway is a singer. So yeah, okay, so in 20 then. In 2017 she wrote and directed for the television show Shots fired. And in 2020 she directed the superhero film the Old Guard, which I feel like you would like that one too. [00:28:39] Speaker B: Oh, I hated the Old Guard. [00:28:41] Speaker A: Really? [00:28:42] Speaker B: Yeah, the second, second version. The second one just came out too. Oh, it was so boring. And I love Charlize Theron and I hated this, this, it was so bad. [00:28:49] Speaker A: Well, Prince Bythewood did not direct the second one, but yeah, okay, okay, never mind, Never mind. In 2022, Prince Bythewood directed one of her most high profile films, the Woman King. She also directed an episode of Women of the Movement and most recently, Prince Bythewood co wrote the screenplay for the Supremes at Earl's all you can eat. She is currently in post production on Children of Blood and Bone and an [00:29:16] Speaker B: adaptation of a fantasy novel, an amazing fantasy novel. So good. It's ya, but it's still so good. [00:29:21] Speaker A: Oh, okay, I haven't read that one. Nice, nice. Prince Bythewood's films have consistently featured black women in lead roles, which is by Design. In 2022 she told the Wrap, I still hadn't seen myself in films until I was 17 when I went to the movies and the trailer for She's Gotta have it came on. I felt like, it felt like I was being blown back in my seat because there was a black woman up on screen that seemed to be the star of this film. This is a feeling that I want to give others. It's absolutely getting better. And there are more of us making movies and more diversity of content, which is beautiful, but if you really look at the numbers, it's still dismal. And so that's always been the fight in terms of putting black women at the center of my stories and films to give other people that feeling that I got of seeing yourself reflected on screen. And then in 2014, she told the NPR's podcast Code Switch quote, people ask me all the time if I feel discriminated against as a black female director. And I actually don't. I get offered a ton of stuff and if I wanted to get work all the time, I could. But I like to direct what I've written. I feel what's discriminated against are my choices. I which is to focus on people of color and more specifically women of color. Those are the films that are not getting made and those are the films that take a lot more fight. But I'm up for the fight because if I'm not Making them. They're not going to get made and then we become invisible again. [00:30:53] Speaker D: So. [00:30:53] Speaker B: Yeah, powerful words. Powerful words. [00:30:56] Speaker A: Yeah. She definitely has a strong mission in her filmmaking, which I really admire. Yeah, yeah. And Prince Bythewood is married to film director and writer Reggie Rock Bythewood and they have two sons. And that is what we know about Gina Prince Bythewood today. Recommend checking out her filmography. [00:31:14] Speaker B: Right on. Let's talk about Sanaa Lathan, who was born September 19, 1971 in New York City. Her mom was an actor and dancer who appeared in the original Broadway production of the Wiz. Her father was a director, primarily of television. Lathan got her undergraduate degree at UC Berkeley and then an MFA from the Yale School of Drama. She is well taught. In the years prior to Love and Basketball, Lathan worked in tv, film and theater. She appeared on TV shows including Moesha, Family Matters and NYPD Blue. She worked in theater in New York and Los Angeles. She had a series of film roles, including Blade in 1998 and the Wood and the Best man in 1999. She would later appear in the sequel the Best man Holiday in 2013 and the TV series the Best the Final Chapters in 2022. After Love and Basketball, Lathan re teamed with Gina Prince bythewood for the TV movie Disappearing Acts in 2000, then starred in another ROM com, Brown Suga, in 2002. Other works in the 2000s include the ROM com, Something New out of Time, Alien vs. Predator, and the TV movie A Raisin in the Sun. [00:32:24] Speaker A: And I realized, like, I've seen most of Lathan's rom coms. I think I was actually, like, I was thinking about putting them in my double features, but then I went with a theme instead. But I was kind of surprised. I don't think I saw any of hers in your double features either. [00:32:38] Speaker B: I've seen none of these. [00:32:40] Speaker A: Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. No, Brown Sugar and Something New, like, are pretty well regarded, I would say, in terms of. And of the Best man, of course. Like, that's a whole thing I've seen. I've seen the first one in the sequel, but not the TV show. But yeah. Anyway. [00:32:55] Speaker B: She also received a Tony nomination for her role in the 2004 Broadway revival of A Raisin in the sun, which I did see. [00:33:02] Speaker A: Really? [00:33:03] Speaker B: Yes. [00:33:03] Speaker A: Like, did you notice at the time, like, this is the one? [00:33:06] Speaker B: Not even a little bit, but I really wanted to see. I love Raisin in the sun. And I remember when I was. When I was going out to Broadway to see a film, to see A show. There were two that I really wanted to see and Raisin in the sun was one. And the tickets today have them for like, you know, half price. So I picked one up. [00:33:21] Speaker A: Huh. And would you remember it being good? [00:33:24] Speaker B: She was fantastic. [00:33:26] Speaker A: Nice. [00:33:27] Speaker B: It was absolutely fantastic. It was so incredible. It was, it was stripped down, but it's still so good. [00:33:32] Speaker A: That's cool. [00:33:34] Speaker B: In the 2000 and tens, she appeared in a movie including Contagion, Perfect Guy, and Now. And now you see Me too. Was she in that? I don't remember her in that at all. Who knows playing that? [00:33:44] Speaker A: That's what I've not seen. Now you see me too. That's what IMDb said, man. I don't know. I can't help you with it. [00:33:49] Speaker B: I mean, she could have. I just don't remember her. Okay. And then American Assassin. She also worked in television on shows including the Affair, the Cleveland show and Shots Fired. And she provided voice work on the Family Guy. She's very apparently very, very, like talented. She can do all kinds of stuff. In the 2000s, Lathan worked on shows including Succession, Harley Quinn, Curb youb Enthusiasm, and Solos. She earned an Emmy for her work on Succession. She appeared in fewer movies in the 2020s, but in 2021 she directed one segment in the movie with Slash in. And in 2022 she directed and acted in on the Come Up, a coming of age movie about a teen girl who wants to be a rapper. Most recently she appeared in the movie the Supremes at Earl's. All you can eat. She is in pre production on a TV series called Miss Cleo. She's also listed as a producer on that project, which means she's put money into that. [00:34:46] Speaker A: So a few other important casts in the movie. Omar Epps plays Quincy. Alfre Woodard, who I love Alfre Woodard so much, plays Monica's mom and Dennis Haysbert plays Quincy's dad. And they're the. Both characters have both their parents in the movie, but Monica's mom and Quincy's dad are by far the more important presences in terms of like the story. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:12] Speaker A: All right, so let's get into the actual movie. And as you mentioned before, Sybil, this movie is divided into four quarters. This is interesting because Challengers used the structure of a tennis match to like structure the plot and then this movie did it. First they had the four quarters of the basketball game to structure its story. So I think I find that fascinating. [00:35:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I actually love that as like a technique, something to use. I think it really Helps you, like, know where you're going with all the parts. [00:35:45] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I like. I like the structure. And now I'm trying to wonder, like, I wonder if there are other sports movies that have done this. These are the only two I can think of right now. But, you know, now I haven't been looking at movies, trying to notice it before. So I'm going to have my eye out for that in the future. [00:36:02] Speaker B: All right, listeners, if you know of them, let us know. We want to hear from you. [00:36:06] Speaker A: Totally, totally let us know. So first, before we get into the. Even the first quarter, I want to point out the opening credits. It has a really cool title font. And then it's with love and basketball. And then there's a heart that's also like a basketball, like, under the title, which I think is so cute. It's really stylish. And Al Green's song, Love and Happiness is playing over the credits. The music is really well done in this movie, too. The music, the needle drops in this movie are great. [00:36:35] Speaker B: Kudos to the music supervisor. [00:36:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And then we swoop in to see a moving truck moving into a nice neighborhood. And we see it's a first quarter, 1981. So we're put back into the past. And yeah, we. We now see some boys are playing basketball and Monica approaches, but we don't. The audience doesn't necessarily know she's a girl yet. She's wearing a hat over her hair and it could be plausible that she would be a boy. This does not last long, though. They don't keep it a secret too long, which I think is good. She takes off her hat. [00:37:09] Speaker B: She whips off that hat like she's Superman. She's like, damn, it's coming off. [00:37:14] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:37:14] Speaker A: And then the boys are immediately, like, making fun of her. Like, girls can't play no ball. And then they call her a dog, which, you know. [00:37:22] Speaker B: And she says, I can ball better than you. [00:37:24] Speaker A: Yep. And then we get the really fun sequence of them playing basketball together. And she is totally out playing them. And they're playing the song Candy Girl by New Edition. Another good needle drop. So we're like. Like five minutes into the movie, we've already had two great songs playing. [00:37:42] Speaker B: It's true. [00:37:42] Speaker A: It's true. [00:37:43] Speaker B: And, like, you're really. And that music really sets you into that period of time. Right? So, yeah, in there. [00:37:48] Speaker A: And she kind of right away announces her intention. I'm going to be the first girl in the NBA. And Quincy, who she's just met, says, I'm going to be in the NBA. You're going to be my cheerleader. But they keep playing. And then at one point, Quincy pushes her. And I think it's because she's maybe going to make a shot, right? [00:38:08] Speaker B: Yeah. He gets really mad because she's doing better than he is and she's about to make, like, a shot and he pushes her. And she likes, you know, she goes into like, the bushes or something. There's not even bushes. I have no idea how she scratches her face and gets a scar. Something happened. She. She hits the air wrong and, like, gets a gash. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Yeah. The actual injury she has on her face does not make much sense given that she lands in the grass. But, like, I guess you don't want to, like, endanger child. Actors [00:38:34] Speaker B: showed like, a rock under her or something. Like, she's getting up and there was a rock there. I was just like, the air has caught her. [00:38:40] Speaker A: Well, so initially in the script, it was going to be that she loses a tooth in this scene, but Sonal Leifan herself has a scar on her face. So they figured that they would incorporate this injury so that, like, they wouldn't have to do all this makeup work on Sonalathan for the rest of the movie. [00:38:56] Speaker B: I literally looked at that scar and was like, that looks so real. Whoever did the makeup on that is so good because I watched it the entire movie was like, damn, no, they're really good at their job. [00:39:07] Speaker A: Yep. And in fact, it was just like, oh, here's a. Here's a great time saving device we can use. Yep, yep. So, yeah. And then we get Monica goes back to her house and her mother, who is played by Alfre Woodard, is taking care of her cut and is kind of lamenting the fact that she's a tomboy. Like, then this is establishing one of the tensions that's going to be there throughout the movie. [00:39:30] Speaker B: That he's a daddy. Well, I think it does a few things. It shows that she's a daddy's girl, not a mama's girl. Right. Which is important to know at this point. So it sets up the stage for she is a daddy's girl and not a mama's girl. And that she has, like, she has a sister who's very, like, more into her mom. Like, they get along better, but that her sister is also like the peacekeeper. [00:39:52] Speaker A: But what's interesting is, okay, so you say she's a daddy's girl, but like, in some movies where there's that dynamic, you see a lot of the dad, you don't really see a lot of the dad here. Like, the energy and the tension and the story arc are all between her and her mom in the movie. [00:40:06] Speaker B: No, it's not. At the beginning of that, there's so much with her father. The beginning, the first, the first and second quarter are so much more with her dad. Like, yes, her mom's part of it because, like, listen, she's a girl, right? [00:40:17] Speaker A: No, I disagree. I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on this. I'm just, I'm just going to say because, like, in terms of. If I were going to call someone a daddy's girl, it would have to be like. I would have to see, like, deep conversations between the two of them quite frequently. Like, all the big dramatic set pieces between her and a parent are with her mom. And like, even like, like she. And she doesn't seem to be totally happy with her dad either. There's a piece right near the beginning of the movie where her dad's asking her mom to iron two different shirts for him. And Monica knows her mom's tired. She just said so. But Monica's mom does it anyway. And she's kind of looking at her mom like she's disgusting. [00:40:53] Speaker B: And I disagree with you. I think she's not mad at her dad. She's mad at her mom for being such a pushover at all. [00:40:59] Speaker A: I think she blames both. I. I don't think she's totally a daddy's girl. I'm gonna. I'm. That's. [00:41:04] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I'm definitely. We're gonna, we're gonna sit here with you listeners. You're gonna let us know when you watch it, what your thoughts are. [00:41:09] Speaker A: We're gonna agree to disagree on this one. Anyway. Anyway. Like, I just, I think she's, like, she's not a mama's girl either, but I think she's just her own girl. You know what I mean? I don't see her as being either parents girl. I see her just being herself and like her own person. And she just. She doesn't really relate to her mom. She's very frustrated with her mom. But I don't think that automatically makes her like super daddy's girl either. Her dad just is the one who's more understanding of the basketball. [00:41:35] Speaker B: It's not even just understanding. He wants her to succeed at basketball. I don't think her mom cares and would also be just happier if she didn't succeed. [00:41:42] Speaker A: Oh, sure. Yeah. I think her mom probably sees that it will cause difficulties for her in Other areas. Like, definitely at that time, that would have been a reasonable thing to think too, unfortunately. [00:41:53] Speaker B: But I think her dad does sponsor her and respects that. Respects that and supports it. And I think that therefore, that makes her more of a daddy's girl. [00:42:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I just don't. I don't. I don't think that you default. Become a dad who's. Anyway, we'll move on. We're moving. We're not going to agree, so we're [00:42:08] Speaker B: going to move on. [00:42:10] Speaker A: So we now go to Quincy's house and we see Quincy's writing this card which says capital I apostrophe capital am sorry. [00:42:22] Speaker B: Right. He's trying to write, like, I'm sorry card artistically. But he sucks. He's not good at it. It was adorable, though. [00:42:31] Speaker A: And we see a little bit about his family dynamic here. Like, his family's doing pretty well because his dad's in the NBA. His mom doesn't bake or anything. She's. She's brought a cake from the store or something she's passing off as her cake and. Yeah. [00:42:46] Speaker B: And they have a very loving relationship physically in front of their son. No problem. [00:42:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, initially. Yeah. Yeah. [00:42:53] Speaker B: But that's showed here. That's what she showed here. [00:42:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:42:56] Speaker B: And then. And it's made a point to be, like. To show the difference between, like, her, like, her. His family is, like, very, like, affectionate towards each other where her family was not per se, that way. [00:43:08] Speaker A: So, yeah, they just seem a little more reserved, I don't think. They're not affectionate, just reserved. [00:43:12] Speaker B: Yeah, but not in that. That's why I said that way. They're not like. They're not like, hey, let's, like, tongue each other in front of our pit. [00:43:19] Speaker A: So. Yeah. So another thing. Monica and Quincy have a little talk here. And Monica tells Quincy she wants to have the number 32, like Magic Johnson, and she knows all of his stats. And then apparently Gina Prince bythewood had Magic Johnson posters on her wall as a kid. So that's based on her. And then Quincy wants to play in the NBA like his dad, and he wants to have his dad's number 22, which we're going to see them wearing 32 and 22 throughout the movie too. So. Which is not something I caught on my first viewing. [00:43:49] Speaker B: Okay. [00:43:50] Speaker A: And then we have after this, after they've met up and kind of become friends, there's a scene of Monica's sister Lena brushing her hair. And Quincy is watching this from his window, which is across the Lawn from her window. So this is the boy and girl next door trope has been established right away. [00:44:09] Speaker B: I'm going to go back for a second. So one of the things I think is interesting is like, the use of their numbers is actually really prominent in the film. But I always felt that there was. There's. So he wears a 22 necklace as well all the time. So he has like a. And she doesn't. I'm always like, she should have a 32 necklace. Because there's a scene where they're sitting together and they're like having an argument. And I was just like, if only they were both wearing, like, a necklace. [00:44:32] Speaker A: Well, she writes 32 on her sneakers instead. [00:44:35] Speaker B: It's true. And he. I mean, but I just felt that, like. And I couldn't tell if it's like, does he wear a necklace because his family is better off than her? So she can't afford the necklace? [00:44:43] Speaker A: I bet that's what it is. Yeah. [00:44:45] Speaker B: Yeah. But I, like, I just felt it was something. It was like if. Something I really noticed is, like, how they both portray their numbers on their bodies. [00:44:52] Speaker A: I bet that's a class signal. Yeah. Yeah. That she's. Her family's slightly less well off than his. Yeah. [00:44:58] Speaker B: Okay. We're doing it every rom com theater. [00:45:00] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah. Now we come to a scene where Monica and Quincy are going to go to school together. She comes out in the dress that her mom made her wear, and we're going to do a little every rom com theater of their interaction. Like, do you have a strong preference on who would you like to be today, my friend? I'd like to be Quincy, I think. [00:45:19] Speaker B: All right, cool. [00:45:19] Speaker A: Then I'm be Quincy. Sybil's going to be Monica. And I'll also read these stage directions. So here we go. You want to be my girl? [00:45:29] Speaker B: What do I have to do? [00:45:30] Speaker A: I guess we can play ball and ride to school together. When you get mad at me, I gotta give you flowers. [00:45:36] Speaker B: But I don't like flowers. Oh, how about Twinkies? My mom won't ever buy them for me. [00:45:44] Speaker A: Okay. [00:45:46] Speaker B: Okay. [00:45:47] Speaker A: I think we ought to kiss now. [00:45:50] Speaker B: For how long? [00:45:51] Speaker A: Five seconds. [00:45:54] Speaker B: Not out here. [00:45:56] Speaker A: Over there, then. So Quincy and Monica go behind the house and they kiss for five seconds as Quincy counts it out on his hand. Afterwards, they get ready to go to school on their bikes. Wait. Cause you my girl now you gotta ride on my bike. [00:46:14] Speaker B: But I want to ride my own bike. [00:46:16] Speaker A: My dad always drives my mom, so. So that means I have to ride you. Come on. [00:46:24] Speaker B: I don't have to do what you say. [00:46:26] Speaker A: Forget you then, stupid. [00:46:29] Speaker B: You stupid. And your dad plays for the worst team on the NBA. [00:46:33] Speaker A: What? [00:46:34] Speaker B: Last time they won, Dr. J was a nurse. [00:46:37] Speaker A: Shut up. Quincy shoves Monica. I don't want to be your boyfriend anymore, you ugly dog. [00:46:44] Speaker B: Well, I don't want to be your girlfriend, you big head. [00:46:47] Speaker A: Quincy and Monica fight. Monica seems to be winning as we end the scene. [00:46:53] Speaker B: And it's important to note that he is then from then on. Big head. [00:46:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I would have clipped this from like the Internet, but like it did not exist. I thought we needed this scene. I love the scene between these two, two kids. It is so hysterical. I never had like one of these like little kid romances, but it really does feel true to a little kid romance. [00:47:11] Speaker B: It does. It really, really does. This is exactly how I imagine you get boyfriend and girlfriend as like 11 year olds and then immediately break up. [00:47:20] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe they don't always break up as quickly as these two did, but yeah, and it's interesting too because there's like, there's going to be some tension in terms of like gender roles and expectations in their relationship in the future. And this is like a foreshadowing almost. So the kiss scene. The child actors Kyla Pratt and Glendon Chapman were very shy about doing their on screen kiss. They required a fair amount of rehearsal before they were able to do it without just like giggling or feeling too awkward. I think it's so funny though, like we. The important part about this kiss is how long will it last? [00:47:58] Speaker B: Yes, yes, exactly five seconds. And they have to make sure it lasts that five seconds. [00:48:02] Speaker A: So I talked about the gender roles. Like, I think it is kind of cool how she's portrayed as somebody who's very independent and she's not going to listen to a guy tell her what to do. And yeah, like she clearly is interested in the idea of being his girl. Like she's smiling but she doesn't want it if it's going to interfere with her independence. [00:48:20] Speaker B: Yeah, forget that. Forget it. [00:48:23] Speaker A: So in that fate, we fade out of that fight that they're having in the grass and. And we fade right into the second quarter. 1988. So the first quarter is pretty much the shortest period of the movie. It's just setting everything up. But I think it really does do a great job setting up some of the tensions for the film. [00:48:39] Speaker B: I think it does a great job of setting up the attention for the film as well as the family structures. Right. And their family is important to who they are as people. [00:48:47] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So second quarter is 1988. And this opens with a montage showing Monica and Quincy in their high school basketball setting. As we mentioned before, we see Monica with her number 32, Quincy with his number 22, and the high school that's in the movie that. Where they filmed. Crenshaw is known for its good basketball programs. And the high school scenes include many real players from the girls team. I don't know if it includes players from the guys team. It just mentioned the girls team, so I don't know. [00:49:18] Speaker B: It's funny because I recognize a bunch of the girls basketball players, but I. I don't even pay. I didn't pay attention to the boys. I'm assuming it probably had regular, like, boys basketball people in it too. [00:49:28] Speaker A: Wait, you recognize them? Like, you knew these people? [00:49:31] Speaker B: Like, I. Yeah, like, I knew who. Like, I recognize them as real basketball players, yes. [00:49:37] Speaker A: Is it because you were like, had met them? Like, I'm curious. [00:49:41] Speaker B: No, no, it's not because I met them. But like, I mean, they're on tv. [00:49:46] Speaker A: The high school? [00:49:47] Speaker B: Yeah, high school on tv. Like, it shows up when people are watching. Like, you can see high school games. Oh, they're on like PBS and stuff. Like your local pbs? [00:49:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:58] Speaker B: Like where you are. It's not that like that. Where you are. [00:50:00] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know because I've never tried to watch high school or I've never tried to watch basketball of any type on tv. So I don't know. [00:50:08] Speaker B: I would not say that I go out of my way. But it's like, you know, it's on in sports bars and stuff. So, you know, if you ever, like, go to the sports bar and hang out, you're gonna run into it. Yeah, my sushi place too. The sushi place I eat constantly. Is having, like, local high school, like soccer and baseball. Baseball and basketball games on. [00:50:29] Speaker C: Weird. [00:50:30] Speaker B: I don't know. Maybe it's just an LA thing. I don't know. [00:50:33] Speaker A: Well, apparently they're a very good team. So, you know, that would make sense, I suppose. Yeah. So apparently Crenshaw is a very good team. And then in this montage, we also see one of the movie's basketball advisors, Colleen Matsuhara, as she's sitting on an in the stands watching the game in the montage. This movie has a lot of montages, let me just say. [00:50:56] Speaker B: Yes, it does. It loves to use a good montage, [00:51:00] Speaker A: honestly, like, I feel like there's maybe a few too many montages in the movie. It's kind of a quibble. Because I think overall, like, until I tried to notice it, I didn't notice it. But, like, once I noticed it, I was like, oh, there's a lot of [00:51:14] Speaker B: montages I did not notice until you just said that. Then I thought about all the different. I'm like, yeah, yeah. But also, sports movies love a good montage. And apparently this morning, like, I have four quarters of montage area stuff. [00:51:24] Speaker A: Okay, that's true. Yep. In this montage, we are also shown one of Monica's challenges in basketball is that she can be a bit aggressive and emotional on the court. So when a call doesn't go her way, she gets put on the bench. She gets put on the bench. And then at home, her mom and then even her dad aren't sure about her future playing basketball. Like, her mom doesn't want her to. Really. Her dad's just kind of saying, oh, well, it might be time to get realistic. Because she apparently has one last chance to kind of get seen by recruiters. [00:51:57] Speaker B: When we first come into the second quarter in 1988, I think it does a really good job of setting up, like, where we are very easily. So we have Quincy, and he's, like, playing with the ladies, where he's just, like, sitting, being like, look at all the ladies fawn around me while I'm in my 22 jersey. And he's, like, watching her, and then she's playing on the court and, like, she's like. She's like, very. Like, I'm the best at what I do. And I'm like, like, you know, I'm so awesome and arrogant. But also she loses her cool. And when she loses her cool, she loses the game. Right. And so I think that it does such a good job of setting up who these characters are in this quarter so quickly. And that's just such good writing. [00:52:39] Speaker A: The storytelling is very economical and effective. Yeah. Now we see scenes of Monica watching Quincy in different circumstances. We see her watching him making out with a girl by a car next door. And then we see her watching his game. And at Quincy's game, Shawnee, who's played by Gabrielle Union, asks Monica to pass him a note. [00:53:03] Speaker B: First, Shani compliments her hair, which is, like, not good looking at all. It's just like in a freaking, like, you know, ponytail or something. It's all freezing and crazy. She compliments her hair. She's like, your hair is so good. And then she's like, now give this awesome note that it's pretty much like, I want to have sex with him. To him, please. Thank you. [00:53:24] Speaker A: Yeah, like, yeah, definitely Monica's being used as a way to get to Quincy. Like, kind of establishes that her and Quincy are tight. But she's not seen as any kind of romantic threat. [00:53:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Which I thought was really interesting. Like, everyone knows that, like she's not getting with him. That's not what they're about. [00:53:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Even though Monica is obviously in love with him, like, he could jump. [00:53:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's obvious. [00:53:50] Speaker A: Now we have a scene with Quincy and Monica in a car. [00:53:53] Speaker C: And. [00:53:53] Speaker A: And he treats her like a guy basically. Because when he finds out she's got a note from Shawnee Easton. He's like with the big ass titties and he's like all excited about it. And like, that's like a guy talking like you would to another guy. Basically. [00:54:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:54:08] Speaker A: And Monica's clearly like jealous. She calls Shawnee a trap ass hoe. And that's one of the parts of the movie I didn't love. Like, I don't. I never like sort of slut shamy stuff. But it does seem realistic. [00:54:20] Speaker B: It was the 80s, right? It was like 80s. This is like super what would be happening. [00:54:24] Speaker A: It just, it also just seems realistic. Like, like at that age and especially if you're jealous, you know, and like you feel like you're invisible sexually. And this totally. Girls. Yeah, totally. [00:54:37] Speaker B: And at that point, I have a question for you. At that point, do you think that Quincy really doesn't notice like, Monica as like a sexual person at all? He's. She's just like his friend, his brother. [00:54:48] Speaker A: So I think, I feel like in that car, when he asked about whether she had a date for the dance or something, like, I almost felt like he was maybe probing her a little bit. [00:54:59] Speaker B: That's what I thought too. That's what I thought too. But it's. It's hard to 100% tell. And is he, is he interested in her? Because he's like, I'm interested in you. Maybe you're hot or sexually or like jealousy or is it. I'm just interested because, like, I don't want another man taking what I think is mine. And you're my best friend. [00:55:17] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. Like, it was hard to say. Like, I feel like you're supposed to get the realization that he is into her at the actual dance. Like it's hitting him. But like, I feel like there could be like an affectionate, romantic feeling towards her even before he notices her sexually. Maybe. [00:55:32] Speaker B: Yeah. But Monica's fully into him and she's just like, I can't say a damn thing, but I'm super into you. [00:55:38] Speaker A: Yeah. That's another reason it's hard for me to relate to the movie, though because, like, I cannot keep my mouth shut if I'm intrigued, interested in someone. Like, I could not do that, sit around for, like, I don't know, six, seven years, like, not saying anything. It would not happen. I'm sorry. So, yeah, I don't know Monica. [00:55:54] Speaker B: I mean, she will. She's gonna be quiet about it. [00:55:57] Speaker A: You don't want to ruin the friendship. I get it. But it's like. It's just not me. So it's interesting to me. Yeah. So this is the coolest scene, though. This is like such great storytelling here. Back at home at his house that night, Quincy's parents are fighting in another room. And he doesn't want to hear it. He climbs out of his window. He goes over and knocks on Monica's window. And without even talking, she just lets him in, gives him a pillow and a blanket and he goes to sleep next to her bed. Which shows you right away that this is like something they've been doing. She already knows, like, this is the kind of intimacy they have. [00:56:32] Speaker B: Right. I think this is such a good thing, like, writing wise, that you can do. You can say so much with saying nothing at all. Right. Because, you know now, you know, as you said, their relationship. This is probably going on since they were kids. Right. And that his parents are now struggling. And so that's important to like. Like, that's like the precursor of, like, stuff that's going to be happening. It's important to understand that they're struggling. So much goes on in such a tight, small sequence. It's brilliantly written. [00:57:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And it. And it establishes that passageway between their two rooms too. Like. Like, we've already seen that a little bit with them looking at. But now we know that this is just a place that they meet. This is a place where things happen between them. [00:57:12] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. They come in and out of windows. They're their friend. They're those friends. [00:57:17] Speaker A: So now we have a champ. The championship game that Monica's playing in. And this is partly shot from Monica's POV with her internal monologue about the game. And, you know, contrary to what you might expect in a sports movie, she doesn't win at the game. She leaves that game very disheartened. [00:57:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I. Do you think this. Do you think this section works? Do you like hearing her, like, how she's playing and, like, how she, like, loses her confidence and as she's going along. [00:57:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it works for me. I mean, I've seen this in a lot of sports movies, too. Bull Durham uses this, too several times. And I think it's effective for me. What about you? [00:57:54] Speaker B: I liked it. I wish that they had actually, like, gone, like, used it farther where they cut it off. I. I think I would have liked to have been in her head when she fully up and that, like, aftermath of that, like, I wish we'd known more and we're already in her inner monologue. Let's, like, know more about what it's like they pull away when she's kind of made mistakes and people are already, like, upset at her for it. [00:58:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. I'd have to watch it again to see what I thought about that. But. Yeah. [00:58:21] Speaker B: Yeah, but I do. I do, like. I do like having that inner monologue of, like, what it's like in her head when she's playing. [00:58:28] Speaker A: So now after this game, she. Monica's sister is talking to her about this spring dance again. And she tells Monica that she set her up with a college guy and she gets. [00:58:39] Speaker B: Her sister is there for her. [00:58:40] Speaker A: Yeah. And her sister's also, like, helping her, you know, do her hair, do her makeup and get her dressed. And her mom is so excited that, like, Monica's dressing like a girl and that she has a way to relate to her. She gives her her mother's pearls to wear. [00:58:55] Speaker B: I. I took umbrage at this section. So first of all, I'm like. Like, Monica's sister is just like, oh, my God, I'm telling you. Laid by some older dude, right? And her mom's like, that's amazing. Let's do that. And then. [00:59:08] Speaker A: Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. There's a part. There's. Okay. I don't think she's trying to get her laid, actually, like, evidence, evidence, evidence. I'm going to give you evidence right now. Okay, maybe this is just because I saw the deleted scene, but there's a deleted scene where she's in the car with the guy, and the guy specifically says to her, your sister told me not to touch you, but I can't help myself. So her sister didn't. The intention was not for her to get laid. The intention was. [00:59:33] Speaker B: That is not the intention I would have seen. And that's not how I read this at all. Because if you're setting your sister up with a college man, that college man is not going out with little girls because he's doing your friend a favorite, right? He wants something very specific from you. [00:59:49] Speaker A: I've met college guys that are jerks. I don't know, whatever. [00:59:52] Speaker B: I'm not saying he's a jerk. I'm saying that he's a man in the 80s and if he's going to. If he's going to a dance, that's what he wants. [00:59:59] Speaker A: Well, I've met college guys who would be. Be able to behave in a. In a gentlemanly manner, let's say. [01:00:05] Speaker B: I'm not saying he's not going to be in a gentlemanly manner. I'm saying that that's what he wants. And so the sister knows that. And then I also took umbrage of the idea that her mom would be like, I'm going to give you these pearls. And like, has, has she ever let the sister wear those pearls? Like, I just, I just wish there had been a different conversation, like, where she'd be like, I think go get the pearls from. Go get the pearls. I think it's time that she gets a chance to wear them. I would have liked that line instead. [01:00:33] Speaker A: I bet. No, but like, the fact that her sister knows where the pearls are probably means she has worn them. [01:00:38] Speaker B: I just think everybody knows where the pearls are. [01:00:40] Speaker A: No, No. I don't know. [01:00:42] Speaker B: I felt that this, this is an area that I was like, I was. This is like one of the spaces I'm like, I would have given you notes. I would have given you notes, writer. [01:00:50] Speaker A: Because, like, I was on board with it. Like, I just assumed. I mean, there used to be a thing where, like, where dances like this is like, maybe predates the 80s a little bit. So maybe it's more old fashioned. But there used to be kind of a tradition of like a guy would just go with a girl to a dance to escort her as a favor, like, as a kindness not to like get laid. Like. So that was like, absolutely. [01:01:10] Speaker B: But that. I did not feel that that was this kid. Like, that was not the feeling I got. It wasn't. She never says like again. She would have been like, hey, I got you. I got a friend from college to take you so that you get to go to the dance. I'm like, aren't alone. But she's like, I got you a college boy. [01:01:25] Speaker A: I'm just like, whatever. Okay. [01:01:27] Speaker B: I'm not. [01:01:28] Speaker A: I wasn't bothered, put it that way. [01:01:29] Speaker B: Okay, that's okay. [01:01:30] Speaker A: Okay, now we get to the dance and I like the way it kind of pushes into the dance floor. The camera kind of pushes in. So you're right amongst the dancers. I think it's really dynamic filming. Everyone is dancing, like, pretty close together. And, like, they're into it. And, like, the girls are wearing pretty tight dresses and so forth. And then Monica enters this scene with the college guy and she's so ill at ease. Like, she's wearing. Her coat is still on. She hasn't even really thought about taking it off. [01:01:56] Speaker B: Her coat is on and completely covers her entire body. Right. It's like. It's what, like a London fog kind of, like, coat? And it's completely up to her neck. [01:02:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And then her date takes her coat then. And, like, she's waiting. [01:02:10] Speaker B: Can I take your coat? And she's like, are you cold? Such a good lie. And he's like, what? And he's like, no, so I can hang it up. And he's like. She's like, oh, okay. [01:02:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, that was weird to me. I was like, really? You didn't understand that phrase Anyway, but she's wearing this, like, really tight white dress. And she looks good. She doesn't look, like, super, like, uncovered. She looks pretty elegant, actually. But she's, like, not used to being in a dress like this. This is established at one point, she's sitting and she has her legs kind of open because she's not used to, like, closing her legs. She's not used to having to close her legs. Right, right. [01:02:46] Speaker B: Also, I think it's important to note that, like, Quincy's girl, like, Shawnee, who. That's who he's with Shawnee at the dance, goes up to her and is like, I didn't know Nike made dresses, like, trying to put her down. [01:02:57] Speaker C: Right. [01:02:57] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:02:58] Speaker A: Well, this is. But this is because, like, when she walks in, Quincy sees her and says, damn. And then leaves Shawnee for a minute to go talk to her. Like, he makes a beeline for her. And this is what prompts. This is what prompts her to be extra kind of catty to. [01:03:15] Speaker B: Absolutely. But I did think it was a good bird. [01:03:18] Speaker A: I was like, good. [01:03:18] Speaker C: Burn. [01:03:19] Speaker B: Could burn. [01:03:20] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know. It seems silly to me. But then. But then also, Monica's date shows up as soon as Quincy shows up. And, like, he's taller than Quincy and he's kind of, like, establishing, you know, [01:03:34] Speaker B: his basketball player, whereas Quincy does not. [01:03:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. Like. But, yeah, but Quincy is feeling her. He's into her. He is, like, noticed her sexually at this point. [01:03:46] Speaker B: She's like, she has boobs. Her hair is. Her hair is not. In a. In a bun. That's amazing. [01:03:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And then I think this scene, the most romantic scene in the movie to me, is actually when they now have a slow dance. They're each dancing with their date that they came with, but they're looking at each other. And it's this great 80s song, I want to Be youe Man by Roger Troutman. And just the gazes they give each other, like, so much longing. Like, so much of that energy. Like, this scene worked for me as the best romantic scene in the movie. Like, even though there's sex scenes, I don't care. This is the one I like. [01:04:21] Speaker B: I think this one's a really good, like, I think it's a very good, like, keep that tension. The tension is building between them scene. I liked it very much. [01:04:30] Speaker A: Like, I mean, a lot of people have been there, right? Where you're with one person and you. But you kind of want to be with someone else. Like, I've been there. You're separated from someone that you want to be with. And it's like, that kind of tension is juicy. [01:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Totally. [01:04:45] Speaker A: All right. So now they. They go back home. We see them back home, and Monica notices that Q, like, sometimes he's called Q. In the movie, that Q is also home early, and she has received a letter from usc. So she goes out to talk with him with her letter. And they find out through this discussion that neither of them were that into their dates. They both kind of just like, ended the date early. And also that she was thinking about how many offensive rebounds she had in her game while her date was trying to make out with her. And then Quincy knows how many offensive rebounds she has. [01:05:20] Speaker B: This. This is how you know it's love right here. He knows she's been thinking about it. He doesn't even question that she was thinking about it. He's like, of course you were. No biggie. I got an answer for you, girl. I, I, I'm in love with you. It's cool. [01:05:32] Speaker A: Yeah. He's paying attention to her life. He's paying attention to the parts of her life that matter, Right. [01:05:37] Speaker B: This other guy, like, romantically in love with her at that point, but he loves her, right? So, like, this is. And that's. I think that that establishes it so well. [01:05:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And he opens her USC letter for her. Can anyone in any movie ever open their own college letter? [01:05:52] Speaker B: Let me just say, also, this letter's super thin. Like, I'm super worried about this letter. [01:05:58] Speaker A: All of the ones in these movies are thin, though. They are like, they don't have the. The big packages in the movies. Maybe it's like the production department doesn't want to put all of that together. I don't know what it is. Or maybe it's to build tension because, like, if it was the big packet, we would all know. Right? [01:06:13] Speaker B: That's true. Because that's. It always is the big packet. The small packet means not that you didn't get in or you wait listed. And the big packet means clearly, you're in. Here's all the shit that you need to know. [01:06:22] Speaker A: Yeah, well, anyway, she gets in, they find out they're both going to USC as well. And Quincy kind of goes to give her a congratulation. Hugging. And this wasn't clear to me, to be honest, but it looks like she kisses him. [01:06:33] Speaker B: I think she goes in for the kiss. I rewound. It's like, what's that about? [01:06:38] Speaker A: Yeah, this was confirmed by the director in the commentary. But, like, honestly, like, to me, I couldn't quite tell whether he had kissed her. She had kissed him first. [01:06:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. It was incredibly awkward. I thought they did such a good job being awkward at that I was like, hey, this is exactly how that would have played out. [01:06:53] Speaker A: Oh, man. And then. But then Quincy kisses her again. Like, for real. It's still a little awkward. Awkward. To be honest. Like, so awkward that they end up falling down onto the grass. [01:07:04] Speaker B: Yeah, no, like, I felt that the scene was real. Like, this is like the. Like, he's like, okay, well, I'm also kind of into, I guess. And I'm like a player. So like, okay, let's. Let's try this. And Monica's like, I do want to do this, but also like, all of this is happening so much. So many butterflies. [01:07:21] Speaker A: So they do. They fall into the grass. They're making out a little bit. And then she kind of sits up abruptly, like she's stopping things. But instead of like, Quincy seems to think, oh, well, I guess we're not doing this. But instead she invites him to come in. Like, I think to her room. I think, yeah. [01:07:36] Speaker B: She's like. She's like, let's go to my room. Because for sure, this grass is not where I want to be having, like, any of this happening. And, like, my clothes. [01:07:42] Speaker A: Apparently the sex scene was written to be happening in the grass. And the actors were like, no. [01:07:51] Speaker B: They're like, I don't really want to be filming sex scenes in grasses. [01:07:56] Speaker A: I think it was character work on their part, actually. I think they're like. With these characters really do this because. And I agree with them. Like, I don't think either of them [01:08:03] Speaker B: would want their backyard between their house now. Yeah. [01:08:05] Speaker A: To risk being caught by your parents. Like, forget it. Yeah. And so, yeah, we have the scene where at least Monica is likely losing her virginity. I'm pretty sure Quincy, his character, he's not a virgin. [01:08:20] Speaker B: No, he's not a virgin. [01:08:21] Speaker A: Yeah. His character is not really portrayed like, to be a virgin. So, yeah, so we have a sex scene and he's very gentle and careful with her. But there's like no foreplay at all. [01:08:32] Speaker B: Because it's a movie. They have no time for porn, like foreplay. [01:08:35] Speaker A: So, I mean, you know, you can always make montage that a little bit. [01:08:40] Speaker B: No, they'd already used up all their montages. Besides, it was. This is the 80s. Men did not understand foreplay. Let's be real. [01:08:46] Speaker A: I guess. [01:08:47] Speaker B: I guess I agree that I was like. I was like. I really wanted like, of. Of like, sensual scenes. I would have loved to have like a. A more delicate, artsy, like, scene here. I think it would have gone fine for me. [01:09:00] Speaker A: In terms of like, the sex scene, though, it was a little bit longer initially. From espn.com Gina Prince Bythewood said the only note from the studio was that she wasn't enjoying it enough. At first I balked, but I ended up shooting additional footage. I edited it, was happy with it, put the movie into the Motion Picture association of America and came back with an R rating because of that scene. I said, there's no nudity at all. How can you give this an R? They said, because it's too real. I said that. That should be a compliment. Not given an R because now girls can't see this. So then they had to cut it down again to get a PG13. But like, this reminds me of the movie, the documentary. This film is not yet rated. Where they went through and they compared sex scenes with women and sex scenes with men and women having orgasms and men having orgasms and how the women's pleasure was always given ours or exes or X's actually over the men's pleasure. There's totally a double standard. Yeah, totally. Yeah. [01:10:01] Speaker B: That's a great film, by the way. You should all watch it. Fantastic. [01:10:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's on at least Internet archive if you can't stream it anywhere. So, yeah, this film is not yet rated. But anyway, yeah, here's another one of these ratings situations. I guess, like, she had like more of an expression of pleasure at one point that got cut out I would have loved that. [01:10:17] Speaker B: That's. That's one of the things that is my one little note about this particular is I'm like, I felt that she's finally getting what she wanted. I'm. Even if he's not, like, great at sex, he cares enough about her that there should have been a better connection. And it just looks like she's like, I'm having sex with some dude. Whatever. [01:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah, kind of. It looks like this is just an awkward, like, first time or something that they. [01:10:38] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what it looks like. And I would have loved to seen something a little better for her. [01:10:42] Speaker D: So. [01:10:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Now this virginity loss, like. So the first quarter cut after they're having a fight on the grass. The second quarter cuts after they're during their sex scene. So they're kind of on top of each other. [01:10:55] Speaker B: Right? They're like foreplay on the grass. Okay. [01:10:59] Speaker A: They're like, yeah. And if they had stayed on the grass, like. Yeah. Both scenes would have cut with them being on top of each other in grass. So that would have actually been sort of. Of interesting parallel. But instead they're in the bed. And we cut now to the third quarter, 1988 to 1989. We see a Magic Johnson clip from 1989 where he's MVP. There's a few different Magic Johnson clips shown throughout the film. And now we open on college training and drills again. We have montage of Monica doing her college basketball training. And we see the coach being very tough on Monica. And the college scenes were shot at usc. UCLA was written into the script, but they didn't want the film filmed there for some reason. And. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. And the college team actors were real basketball players, including Erica Ringo, who plays Sidra, a rival point guard on the team. And I thought Erica Ringo. That's one of the ones I was going to say. I thought she did a great job. [01:11:59] Speaker B: She did an okay job, but I wouldn't say she was great. I felt that her stuff was very important. Yeah, I said I felt I could tell that she, like, she's not an actress like she is. She's very wooden at times. [01:12:09] Speaker A: She felt she worked fine for me, but yeah, I found out what a point guard was for the purpose of this podcast, if you, like me, did not know what a point guard was. The nbcolympics.com says Monica's position is this. The point guard is primarily responsible for bringing the ball up the floor on offense and distributing it to teammates. Typically, point guards are among the smallest and fastest players on the team and adept at ball handling and passing. So that makes her height not that big of an issue. Like you were saying, she's a lot shorter than the players. But this is a very key position, like, which I did not realize. She's playing a very key position where she has to kind of know the strategy and, like, kind of execute it. [01:12:50] Speaker D: But. [01:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah, but you said you knew what a point guard was, so you knew that this was like a key position. [01:12:54] Speaker B: Yes, it. Well, I mean, all of the are key positions, but that's a really important position. And so to have that makes you like a. Like, is one of the basketball stars. Like, you're a star. Right? [01:13:04] Speaker A: Nice. Yeah. Yeah. I just. I know very little about basketball. Like, literally, like, I haven't played basketball in a game since, like, probably maybe high school or elementary school or something. Yeah, yeah. And not on a team, just like in gym class. So. Yeah. [01:13:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:20] Speaker A: Basically, what I know about basketball is that you should put the ball in the hoop and you shouldn't travel. That's what I know. Don't try. [01:13:28] Speaker B: Definitely not. Definitely not. Traveling is not. We don't want to do that, for sure. We don't like to foul people. We don't like to reach in. [01:13:34] Speaker A: Yep. I don't do. I wouldn't do that anyway because I don't care enough, so. [01:13:38] Speaker B: Right. [01:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway, I think that's one of the [01:13:42] Speaker B: things that stands out about this movie is like, you don't have to know basketball to enjoy the. The movie itself. The basketball just happens to be there. [01:13:51] Speaker A: Sure. [01:13:52] Speaker B: Driving our characters. [01:13:54] Speaker A: But I think, like, a lot of times when you do do some of the research on things in these movies, they reveal like. Like hidden depths. You know what I mean? And you just never know when the research is going to reveal one of those depths. And like, finding out that Magic Johnson was also a point guard was interesting to me because that's the player who she admires so much, so. Right on. Yeah. And also just knowing that that's such an important position because, like, for me, it makes it more meaningful. Like that she not only wants to be a basketball player, she wants to play this key position. [01:14:24] Speaker B: So. Yes, she does. And that she has a rivalry to get that key position. [01:14:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So we also see that Quincy and Monica are together as a couple at college, but simultaneously, girls are flirting with Quincy right in front of her face. [01:14:41] Speaker B: And he don't care. He's like, oh, that's great. I love it. To be flirted with. [01:14:44] Speaker A: So many guys are like, that though, Right. And they will just, like, let girls, like. Like, I'm not very possessive as a person these days, but when I was younger, maybe it would have bothered me. But, like, guys will just totally ignore shady behavior from one girl to another all the time. Like, it's totally true. Either they're unaware of it, or they just don't care enough. [01:15:03] Speaker B: They just don't care. They just don't care because, like, for them, it means that they're, like, you know, hot. And she should just trust that he's fine. [01:15:11] Speaker A: And then he reassures her, though, with all these girls, you're the only one I know who's for real. To which she says, I love you, too. Which is interesting because we don't really hear him say, I love you. We hear her say, I love you, but not him. [01:15:24] Speaker B: Totally. [01:15:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:25] Speaker B: He's more of a shower than a sayer. [01:15:27] Speaker A: He's more of a shower. [01:15:29] Speaker B: Yeah, he's a shower. He shows her he loves her. He remember, he notices her. Her. You know, her scoring and stuff like that. [01:15:35] Speaker A: Sure. [01:15:35] Speaker D: Less. [01:15:36] Speaker B: Less words. Less words. [01:15:37] Speaker A: Well, this thing about knowing she's for real, like, there's his mom brings up a couple times in the movie to him that women are going to come after him for maybe the money he could make as a sports star. So that's kind of a through line here, too, which is interesting. [01:15:52] Speaker B: He was with a. A player. It's always interesting. [01:15:56] Speaker A: Which is interesting because. What? [01:15:58] Speaker B: Because she. His mom was already with a player. [01:16:01] Speaker A: Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:16:03] Speaker B: So, like, was she with him because he was, you know, famous and hot? Or did she also. Because we don't know that backstory. Or did they meet before he was famous and, you know, go to his gig and they fell in love before that? [01:16:16] Speaker A: We don't know. [01:16:17] Speaker B: Yeah, but I always. I thought that was really. Because it makes his mom an interesting character. [01:16:21] Speaker C: Sure. [01:16:21] Speaker A: Definitely. So we have a training scene where Monica celebrates after making a basket by posing with one of her hands up, like she's just throwing the ball. And the coach punishes her by making her stand like that in that position for the rest of practice. I like this tough coach portrayal. You always need, like, one of these tough coaches. [01:16:42] Speaker B: Right. I also like that, like, she isn't hot, but I don't know if the team would be this mean to her in real life. Like, I don't know, there's at least [01:16:49] Speaker A: one girl who's really nice to her. I don't know. [01:16:51] Speaker B: Yeah, a bunch of that team is just really, like, just mean to Her. And I was like, whoa. Okay. But, like, she. [01:16:57] Speaker A: Instead of. [01:16:57] Speaker B: Instead of Monica, like, getting down about it, she's just like, yeah, I'm just going to become better then. [01:17:02] Speaker A: Well, the rival player, Sidra specifically is being. By telling Monica she only made the team because the original girl who got recruited, got pregnant and couldn't come. So, like, that is a hard thing for her to swallow. She goes back to her dorm and she's worried about it. And Q cheers her up by offering to play a strip basketball game with her in his room where he's got this little tiny basketball net. And then this is the strip basketball scene. What is your opinion about the strip basketball scene? Anything? [01:17:34] Speaker B: I mean, I think it's fine. I could have lived without the scene. I think it, like, I understand what it's doing, but I would have liked. I would have liked to see their, like, their relationship get deeper at this point. Like, to understand, like, where they are. And I think this scene doesn't really show, like, where they are in their relationship yet. It just shows that they're, like, they're dating. Right. [01:17:54] Speaker A: It shows that they're, like, playful sexually and they're. She's more comfortable in her sexuality. And, yeah, it's serving a function to offer a parallel to a scene that we will see later on. As well. [01:18:05] Speaker B: But, yeah, also that we know that she's struggling when he's doing great. Like, everything's coming up roses for him. And she's on the struggle button. [01:18:13] Speaker A: And during this strip basketball scene, we hear the line, all's fair and love and basketball, baby, from Monica. That line's going to be repeated later, so pay attention. There's also. We keep having people say, where's the D? On the basketball court all the time? Meaning where's the defense? She goes, where's the D? To him? And then he, like, takes off his pants and is like, it's right here. [01:18:35] Speaker B: Just like all men. He's like, here's my penis. [01:18:40] Speaker A: I mean, you know, she kind of walked into it. [01:18:42] Speaker B: She super dead. She super dead. That's what she's looking. That's. That's how it is. [01:18:46] Speaker A: And then she says, I won. And he says, I wanted you, too. So we also get callbacks for. We get callbacks for this whole scene later. So that's. That is one reason to have this scene here. [01:18:57] Speaker D: Absolutely. [01:18:59] Speaker A: So now we have another montage. Another montage. [01:19:03] Speaker B: What this movie needs is a montage. [01:19:05] Speaker A: We see a montage of Quincy and Monica playing college. College basketball games. And this kind of shows a Disparity in resources and attention between men's and women's college basketball. Like, if you look at the audience [01:19:19] Speaker B: sizes, for example, like, for a montage, I think this does a really good. Again, I, Like, I understand why this montage is here. I think it did a really good job. I did appreciate that, like, when you watched it for, like, a second time, you really could. You could understand, like, the resources that. That men get, that women are just like, I barely got anything and nobody's noticing me, but we're working our asses off. [01:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:19:40] Speaker B: You know, and I. And, you know, it showed and we. It taught. It's talked about as this continues on. But, like, I really appreciate that. That's kind of like the subtext. [01:19:49] Speaker A: All right, so before we get to the spoiler section, I did want to include in this episode a very brief history of women's basketball, because there is a lot to know about this. Like, if I'd gotten really into this topic sooner, there was a whole book I could have read about it. But, yeah, I'm trying to be more realistic about the podcast lately. So, Sybil, if you know anything more about the history of women's basketball while we're going, you can feel free to put it in there. [01:20:15] Speaker B: But I don't think I know anything about the history of women's basketball. When I was reading your notes, I was like, that's fascinating. [01:20:23] Speaker A: Well, let's get to what we have. So it's very brief, but here's, like, a little bit of an overview. So I didn't even know when basketball was invented, but apparently it was invented in 1890. 91 in Springfield, Massachusetts. But then in 1892, it was first played by women at Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts. And that's so funny, because you and I went to Hampshire College, which was one of the five colleges with Smith. So that. [01:20:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I took a quite. I took quite a number of classes at Smith. [01:20:52] Speaker A: Yep. Women's college. And they were a pioneer, apparently, in women's basketball. So who knew? [01:20:58] Speaker B: Who knew? I mean, that's. I was so interested to find that out. [01:21:02] Speaker A: But for many years then, women were playing basketball in colleges and I think in other clubs and things, too. But they were playing often a modified version of the game which reduced its strenuousness and physical contact. So they had, like, the court divided into more different sections or something. And the amount that a women woman could move in the game was kind of limited to a certain area. And they weren't supposed to dribble the ball for too Long. And they were like. [01:21:30] Speaker B: It would exhaust them, clearly. [01:21:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:21:33] Speaker B: Now, mind you, if it started Smith, Remember one of the small, weird things about Smith College is they had Easy Rider stairs, like half. Half size staircase stairs, because women weren't supposed to have to pick up their feet as much. It was bad for their uterus. [01:21:45] Speaker A: Really? [01:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah. You didn't know that about those stairs? [01:21:48] Speaker A: No. [01:21:48] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. There's so many weird things about Smith that, like, I did a tour of Smith when I was there and there were so many, like, weird things that were like, oh, we designed it this way, but because, you know, it's better for women. It didn't, like, juggle their brains. It was better for their uterus, et cetera. [01:22:04] Speaker A: Strange. Okay. No, I did not know. Well, at the time, women were still playing certain sports while wearing corsets. [01:22:10] Speaker D: Even. [01:22:11] Speaker A: So, like, this is back in the day. Like, the women were not wearing corsets while playing basketball, as far as I could tell. But like, they were still being treated like delicate flowers, actually, for a long time. Yeah. So for a while, women were playing sort of a diminished version of the game, but they kept playing and things gradually became more equal and more like the men's game. I was interested to learn also that black women also started playing fairly early in the history of basketball. So from an article on the website of the National Museum of African American History and Culture, I found out that in the 1930s, many HBCUs, historically black college and universities, hosted women's basketball teams as well. So that the game was sort of spreading around. And also in the early days, there were women's black fives teams. Now, black fives is a term that refers to basketball teams with black players. And these players were excluded from the white leagues. So there were a lot of men's black five teams, and then there were also women's black five teams who toured around and played. But I could not determine, I could not find out whether those women players were paid or not, whether they were in fact professional or just sort of amateur leagues. [01:23:24] Speaker B: I mean, let's be real, they're probably just amateur leagues. But I. I mean, that's so interesting. [01:23:29] Speaker A: And then I did see, also for this episode, I watched a TV documentary that came out at the time that the WNBA was opening. It was called WNBA, the Birth of a League. It's from 1997. I found it on YouTube. I'll link it in the show notes. And it talked about two early incarnations of women's professional basketball in the U.S. one of them was called Hazel Walker's Arkansas Travelers. And they were a professional team from 1949 to 1965. And then there was another team called the All American redheads from 1936 to 1986. Yes. And all the women in that team either had red hair or they dyed their hair red or they wore redheaded wigs for some reason. [01:24:12] Speaker B: Okay. [01:24:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, in both of these instances, the teams, like, kind of did kind of sort of like Harlem Globetrotters kind of performance art kind of stuff alongside just playing basketball, right? [01:24:26] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. [01:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah. They weren't just playing a game, but they were also kind of like an exhibition in a certain sense. It reminded me, watching the excerpts they had. It reminded me a little bit of In a League of Their Own, where the women are really trying to play baseball, but they're also kind of being dressed up right, you know, to look pretty or something. [01:24:41] Speaker B: Right. Because they still. They have to. Have to market it. Right? They have to market it. Market somehow. And they're. They clearly, it's not because the game [01:24:47] Speaker A: is interesting, but these women were going around and they were playing against men's teams quite often, and, like, men's kind of like Kiwanis club teams and things like that, like local organizations and quite often beating them. So it's kind of cool that that was happening. At any rate. And then. And then a big change came for women's basketball in 1972 because of the Title 9 legislation, which mandated that women's sports be treated equitably and be given better funding and facilities and opportunities so that, like, they would be equal to men's sports. It was an all over kind of educational legislation which made opportunities for women more equal in general. So pretty cool. That's. And that's really when high school and college programs for women started taking off. And I'm sure you know something about [01:25:36] Speaker B: that that's so interesting. This is like. This is also very interesting. I had no idea that, like, this even went on with, like, women's basketball. [01:25:46] Speaker A: You knew about Title nine, though, Shirley, right? [01:25:48] Speaker B: I mean, not really. No. I mean, not like. I mean, clearly it was more important than I expected it to be. [01:25:55] Speaker A: No. [01:25:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:25:55] Speaker A: Like, before then, like, you know, women might not even have, like, time in the gym maybe. [01:26:01] Speaker B: Exactly. I. I did not know that. I was like, wow. [01:26:03] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. So that's why, like, that's why that was such an immense change and it really affected sports all across the board, I think. Now, I'm. Don't quote me on this, but I think it might have applied to Other opportunities, too, beyond sports. But sports is definitely one area where women were definitely raised up by title nine. So. Yeah. And then in 1976, women's basketball was added to the Olympics. So that was another big step. And then Prior to the WNBA, in 1978, the first professional basketball league for women was formed, the Women's Basketball League. But it only lasted for three seasons. So that, for whatever reason. [01:26:42] Speaker B: Yeah, probably funding. Let's be real. Probably funding. [01:26:45] Speaker A: And then in 1996, the WNBA was founded. And when Gina Prince Bythewood was writing, started writing her script, the WNBA didn't even exist yet. So that made a huge difference in how she decided to proceed with the film at that point. Wow. [01:27:02] Speaker B: Okay. [01:27:03] Speaker A: So initially, the WNBA had eight teams. Today it has 13 teams, and there are five teams being planned for the near future. This compares to 30 teams in the NBA. So women's sports are still catching up. The 1997 WNBA documentary I watched had a lot of really interesting interviews with women who came to the WNBA from different backgrounds. And we see some of this reflected in the film. Some of them had played abroad, some of them have been in the Olympics, Some of them came straight out of college, and some came from other countries. So a few of the stories I'll share. Lynette Woodard is in the documentary. She was the first female member of the Harlem Globetrotters. She also spent time playing in Japan and Italy. Then she became a stockbroker because the WNBA didn't exist yet. But then when the WNBA set up, she decided to join the Cleveland Rockers and play for them. [01:28:00] Speaker B: Wow. She had quite a past. She had quite a pass right there. [01:28:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And she was still apparently trying to keep her hand in as a stockbroker while she was playing, which is kind of interesting. And then Cynthia Cooper, a player for the WNBA at that time, helped win two national championships for USC, played on the 88 and 92 women's Olympic basketball teams, and then played for 10 years in Italy. And she was a big star overseas. And then she was able to join the Houston comets. At age 34. She told the documentarians, I'm on a mission to make the WNBA work, but not for me. For the young ladies in college, for the girls in high school, I'm on a mission for them. I don't want them to have to go overseas and play and be away from family for 10 years to pursue a dream. So, yeah, so it's pretty moving, the documentary. It is one of those chintzy TV documentaries from the 90s, but you know, that's still. [01:28:57] Speaker B: It's still interesting. I wonder what the average age is of a WNBA player. 34. I mean, that's not young in any way. [01:29:07] Speaker A: No, no. She was definitely like at the sort of the end of her kind of trajectory, but like, to be able to have that opportunity at the end of your career must have been pretty amazing too. [01:29:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:29:18] Speaker A: So then I read some recent stuff about the wnba, and one of the things I uncovered right away was a 2025 New York Times opinion piece by a Harvard professor, Claudia golden, and she was writing about how WNB play. WNBA players are drastically underpaid compared to NBA players. So she said the average NBA player's salary is around $10 million in the current season. That is 80 times what the average WNBA player earned, about $127,000 in the 2024 season. And she went through and she did calculations like, of like, how many views per player like, were would be on like streaming platforms and then also in the audience. And she calculated that WNBA players receive about 30% of the views of NBA players on streaming and about 25% of the NBA players on in person attendance. So they should be getting, you know, probably about 25 to 30% of what an NBA player gets instead of 1 80th of what a w. What an NBA player gets. [01:30:24] Speaker B: Yeah, no, we think that, like, the NBA is like, you know, ripping people off now. The WNBA is making money hand over fist, quietly. The money that they're bringing in, they're not pushing back to their players, whereas, like, the NBA is pushing money back to their players. [01:30:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And there's been like, you know, there's been. The women's soccer teams have finally started to get paid more. And so it's kind of like a trend that needs to keep continuing. [01:30:48] Speaker B: Like she. [01:30:48] Speaker A: She wrote the end of her article. She wrote the world of women's professional basketball is ripe for an economic update that better reflects its influence and irresistibility, but it has not happened yet. The people who run the NBA and WNBA are instead badly underpaying the women who entertain and thrill us with their feats of athleticism. And I should note that they are run by the same organization. So it's not like one organization doesn't have as much money and the other does. They're the same organization and they're. The streaming is actually packaged together too, so. Yeah. [01:31:20] Speaker B: Oh, I didn't know that. That's. Yeah, no, they're just stealing. They're just greedy little bastards. [01:31:27] Speaker A: Yeah, the ladies. The ladies need some More respect. [01:31:29] Speaker B: Yep. Hold on. [01:31:32] Speaker A: Anyway, yeah, that's what I learned about the history of women's basketball, so. [01:31:36] Speaker B: Well, thanks for sharing with us again and doing all that deep research because let me tell you, I bet most of the listeners, including me, had no idea. [01:31:43] Speaker A: I bet there are listeners, though, who know a lot about basketball. Let's keep it real. Like, I'm like, I'm very ignorant about these things, so I feel like I'm just scratching the surface of what there is to know, unfortunately. But you can't know everything. That's how life is. [01:31:56] Speaker C: True. [01:31:57] Speaker A: All right, and now we're going to begin our spoiler section. So if you have not seen love in basketball and you would like to remain unspoiled, here's your chance to dip out and then come back in once you've watched it. Yeah. So now we come to a part in the story where Quincy and Monica's encounter some problems with their relationship. And first, Quincy encounters a problem with his relationship with his dad when he finds out that his dad has been cheating on his mom. [01:32:24] Speaker B: Okay, so this, this part's really interesting because like, like his dad just baldly lies to him and he's like dark. So what happens is he, Quincy finds out that his dad and his mom are having like, hard times in their relationship because he has a lawsuit against him, paternity lawsuit against him from somebody he apparently, you know, had, has a baby with. And he's like, I no, it can't be mine. That's a bald faced lie. And then he goes home. Once he goes home and his mom's like all drunk and shit. And, and she's like, I have cheating photos. So she has cheating photos. So she's found the chick or at least some chick that he's been cheating with. And then like, and it's her belief that, you know, he is the dad. But like the whole time the dad's like, no, no, it's not my baby. [01:33:09] Speaker A: You know, I think it is. I think we do find out that it's not actually the baby, but it kind of doesn't matter. You know, it's like, you're still cheating. So. [01:33:16] Speaker B: And also, like, he just straight up lied to Quincy. Like he lied to his face. [01:33:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And like, his dad has been so important to him, like for his through his life. Like, he loves his mom and he ends up siding with his mom in this situation. But like, his dad has been like, they're like his hero, right? [01:33:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's his hero. And he like, he wants to be like his dad. And now he's like, I don't want to be like my dad. He's an. I think he goes a little extreme about this. But, like, you know, hey, dudes can be very melodramatic. [01:33:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So now we have a scene where he's talking with Monica on the bleachers and telling her about this, and she wants to listen and she wants to be there for him, but she has a curfew where she has to be back in the dorm, I guess, or she will not be able to play in her game. In her basketball game. And Quincy just is not understanding about this. He's really angry that she won't sit around and, like, I don't know, man. [01:34:10] Speaker B: He's a boy tantrum. He has a. Like, I can't believe you choose basketball over this horrible thing that's happening to me. There aren't these things called phones in the 20th century. I don't know what to do. [01:34:21] Speaker A: That's a good point. [01:34:23] Speaker B: Literally, could just have this on a phone call. I was like, sweetie, I have to go back to my room. But, like, I'll call you as soon as I get there. [01:34:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that is a very good point, actually. Yeah. [01:34:32] Speaker B: I was like, this. This part of the movie was a part that I was just like, you know what? Leave that. Never mind. He's a baby. [01:34:41] Speaker A: Well, she doesn't try to leave him right now. Like, she's. She wants to be there for him. But, yeah, he's. He's really stonewalling her. So the next time. We see. Now another montage, more montages, we see Quincy and Monica playing. He seems to be preoccupied with what's going on with his dad, and he's not doing well, but she is really doing a great job. So she is on the up, and he is going down right now. [01:35:09] Speaker B: This is the montage that I hate the most because it's, like, so egregiously, like. Like, cheesy. Like, he's like, I can't even hold a ball. I have nine hands. Like, this part, I'm just like, come on now. Like, we could have done this a little better. Like, it's just. He's just like, the worst basketball player. From, like, a good basketball player to a person who. Who, like, trips, throws the ball, misses things. Not like, he's just missing baskets. He's like, oh, I just. I hit it into the wings somewhere. And I'm just so angry about life. And she's just like, look how amazing I am. [01:35:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:35:44] Speaker B: Which is fine for her, but I really was. I was like, are you kidding me right now? He's going into this deep, dark spiral that he can't play basketball this badly. [01:35:54] Speaker A: Okay, so after this, Monica, like, has a. Her. Monica's coach calls her in, and she's given a chance to start as the point guard in the next game. And she's getting this opportunity over Sidra, her rival. So this is, like, really significant. [01:36:10] Speaker B: But doesn't she get it over Sidra because Sidra got an injury? [01:36:13] Speaker A: No, but Sidra is supposed to be better by the next game. Like, that's the point. [01:36:17] Speaker B: I never under. Like, I've watched this a bunch of times. I don't think I ever caught that. I was always just like. Because Citrus just injured. And the first time she's playing Citrus still on crutches. [01:36:26] Speaker A: No, but, like, so this game that she's played right now, Sidra is still injured, and that's why she's given the opportunity to play. But now she's being given the opportunity to play in this next game. And she says, but, coach, like, Sidra is supposed to be better by then. She's like, oh, but you did great, or something. Yeah, it's. No, she's. She's taken the spot while Sidra's injured. [01:36:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I don't. Yes, you're absolutely correct. That is what happens at that point. And that I was just assumed that, like, the coach was like, I don't think Sidra is going to be good enough yet. I don't think she's going to be, like, back in the game. I've been really happy with what you've been doing, but I like your version. I like the version, like, where, like, there. She's just like, you're the best. Get on in there. [01:37:05] Speaker A: Well, she, you know, she's testing her out. She's seeing what she can do. So. Yeah, absolutely. [01:37:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it does. And they do have like, a very, like, good coach conversation where essentially the coach says, I'm hard on you because, like, Monica's like, I think that you hate me. Why would you give me this opportunity? Because she, like, apparently Monica's like a baby. And the coach is like, I'm hard on only the people I care about. Like, if I didn't. If it's when I ignore you that you have to worry. [01:37:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And, like, that's. I feel that that's very true, like, for me, too. Like. Like, when I've had students, like, I mean, I try not to. I tried not to ignore any of my students, but if I had students I felt a lot of potential there. I would definitely try to give them a little extra help when that sometimes meant extra critique too. [01:37:46] Speaker B: So push them a little harder. Push them a little harder. [01:37:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I see potential in you. You can do a little better than this. Yeah. Anyway, so let's see. Monica then is go. Has a party with her team because they're all happy because they won. Quincy's at the party, but he's, like, kind of drunk, and he's talking to some other random girl. And then when Monica wants to talk to him, he doesn't want to talk to her. He just tries, like, making out with her and trying to get her to leave the party to have sex. And she's just not really feeling that kind of energy there. [01:38:17] Speaker B: Yeah, she's like, come on, let's celebrate my wins. I've been there for you a bunch of times celebrating your. I know that you've got, like, some going down, but, like, you didn't lose a limb, sir. Like, you're gonna be fine. So, like, like, seriously, he's such a baby. I like this whole section. I'm just like, quincy's a loser. He's such a loser. I hope they don't. [01:38:35] Speaker A: You're hard on him. [01:38:37] Speaker B: That's because he's a big baby. His big head baby. But, you know, hey, when it comes around, I'm okay at the end. It's cool. [01:38:43] Speaker A: But I think it's not just, like, she just wants to celebrate. She even tries to talk to him about things that he won't even talk to her. So true. [01:38:49] Speaker B: Because he's a huge, big head baby, so. But yeah, like, he's going through it. He doesn't understand that she didn't understand that he was going through it. She's supposed to drop all of her, which I'm sure triggers her a bunch because, like, she grew up with a mother who dropped all of her it. Right. [01:39:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:39:05] Speaker B: That this is where. I wish that this script had had more space to kind of, like, play with that dynamic a bit more because I think it would have. It would have made their characters through this section stronger as, you know, as they move forward. [01:39:20] Speaker C: But. [01:39:20] Speaker A: But, I mean, you picked up on it anyway, so. [01:39:23] Speaker B: Yeah. But I, like, I would have appreciated it just being acknowledged like. Like coming from there instead of just Quincy being, like, so angry. Oh. And she's like, I don't know what to do, but I'm staying strong in my own right. Because, like, I would have liked it that she, you know, when she goes and talks to her mom. That would be the conversation. Like, I'm having trouble, my man. I want to talk to you, Mom. I think that would have been a really interesting way to go with the script. Not nothing is nothing bad about the way it's gone. But, like, when I've watched it millions of times, this is the section I think that I would have. I would have asked to judge a little bit more. [01:39:58] Speaker A: Okay, okay, Fair enough. [01:40:00] Speaker B: Yep. Still tightly written. Still tightly written. [01:40:03] Speaker A: So Quincy and his dad have another conversation, and his dad's trying to make excuses about why he cheated, talking about how he married Quincy's mom when he was 19 because she was pregnant. And, like, I don't know if that helps you, dude. [01:40:16] Speaker B: Like, no, I love that. That was like. He's like, no, man. That's. That's why. And, you know, just be like. Just admit. Just be like, hey, you know what? I made stupid choices and I regret them. [01:40:28] Speaker A: And he's just like, that's just going to make his son feel worse because, like, oh, thanks, dad. Thanks for telling me that, like, I was such a burden to you and shit. I don't know. [01:40:36] Speaker B: Right? [01:40:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:40:37] Speaker D: Great. [01:40:38] Speaker B: I know, I know, I know. There's just so much going on right here that I'm like, oh, his dad's handling things so poorly. [01:40:45] Speaker A: And then he's talking about how there's always all these groupies at the NBA games. And like this. There's kind of a parallel here because Quincy, like, reacting to his father cheating, he then goes out and starts cheating on Monica. So weird. [01:41:00] Speaker B: Yeah, totally, totally. Like, he doesn't see that he. But Quincy doesn't see the parallels. Not even. [01:41:04] Speaker A: No, no. [01:41:05] Speaker B: But this is when. This is the important part of this section is when. So Quincy, who we've. We've heard him talk to his dad about, like, when he should go pro. And his dad's always been like, don't go pro yet. Give yourself time to kind of marinate and also, like, get a good education. Right? Like, his dad's done this. He's what. He's been in this field. He knows what happens to players, right? So he's like, get a good education. And so Quincy, this is where he tells his dad out of spite and being, I don't know, young and dumb, he's like, I'm gonna drop out of school and go pro, knowing that's gonna make his dad hurt. [01:41:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:41:38] Speaker B: But he doesn't think about the fact that it's, like, hurting him so much more. [01:41:42] Speaker A: Yeah, this guy's just flailing. Quincy's Just flailing. Yeah, right. [01:41:46] Speaker B: I mean, it's. He is in a really deep, dark spiral about this, you know, And I. I wish there had been more for me to understand why he was spiraling this hard. But, like, you know, apparently he is. It's not even like his mom was like this. Your dad's the most horrible beast ever. She's just like. [01:42:05] Speaker A: It's just sad. [01:42:05] Speaker B: I'm really sad about it. [01:42:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:42:08] Speaker B: Yeah. But he. He does. He goes. He has. He has a baby man tantrum and, you know, kind of just starts destroying his life. [01:42:15] Speaker A: Yep. And so Monica goes to visit Quincy, and then another girl arrives to go out with him. And the girls. The girl's kind of nervous. She's like, maybe I'll leave. And then Monica goes to her. No, you stay. I'll leave. [01:42:28] Speaker B: This scene. This scene. Okay. So Monica. Monica's there. She's trying to, like, work it out with Quincy. She's trying to figure out what's going on with him and have a good, good conversation and just be like, dude, I feel you're hurting. Whatever. And Quincy's like, I don't. Like, blah. I don't want you. Like, I'm just being kind of like, bitchy and standoffish and cold because you left me on bleachers and couldn't talk to me when I. When I needed you to talk to me. And she even brings it up. She's like, listen, I had. You know, basketball is the most important things. If anybody should understand it, you should. And instead, this girl comes in who's very lovely, and she's clearly. She understands that Monica is his something, his situation. But she's not willing to leave Quincy. She's like, no, man, he's mine. I'm about to take him from you. [01:43:14] Speaker A: And Quincy is like, no, she is willing to leave. She's like. She feels uncomfortable. She tries to leave. That's why. That's why Monica says, no, you stay, I'll leave. Like, the girl doesn't want to deal with this shit. I don't think. [01:43:26] Speaker B: Well, you might be right. You might be right. I got the feeling that she didn't want to watch this happen, but she wasn't willing to be like. Like, I'm not. She. It wasn't like, I'm out of here. Right? She's like, I'll leave and let you so work this out. And also she says, I'll see you later to him. [01:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. That's true. [01:43:41] Speaker B: Like, for me, I was. She was just like, I don't like the vibe that's in here. [01:43:44] Speaker A: No, no, she said, I'll see you later before. Not this time. [01:43:47] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Cool. All right, then. So, yeah. So, yeah, so she could have been, like, a personal, legit person and been like, oh, I realize that I'm now the other woman, so maybe I should, like, leave. And that he's literally using me to break up with you. [01:44:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. Gina, Prince bythewood didn't set up a situation where two women are fighting with each other over a guy. You know what I mean? [01:44:08] Speaker B: I did. I appreciated that as well. That it was just kind of like. Like, I felt this was a very real situation for a dude to, like, create because he doesn't want to have the conversation. Yeah, and he also wants to hurt her because he's trying to, like, blow up his entire life. [01:44:22] Speaker A: So I have now a clip I'll play of another scene between them. And this is actually going to be a breakup scene between them, so I'll play that clip. [01:44:32] Speaker D: Can we talk? [01:44:35] Speaker C: Talk to your new girlfriend. [01:44:36] Speaker D: Look, I took the ho to Burger King. [01:44:38] Speaker C: Cheap date. [01:44:39] Speaker D: You shared time for me. [01:44:41] Speaker C: So you messed around to prove a point. [01:44:43] Speaker D: What'd I just say? You know, you got your head so far up your ass. Took a cheap day for you to notice me. [01:44:48] Speaker C: What C. Man, did I forget to kiss your ass like everybody else? [01:44:51] Speaker B: You forgot to be there that night [01:44:54] Speaker C: you wanted to talk about your dad. [01:44:56] Speaker A: I had curfew. [01:44:57] Speaker B: What was I supposed to do? [01:44:58] Speaker D: Stay? [01:44:59] Speaker C: If I stayed, I wouldn't be starting. [01:45:01] Speaker D: Or at least you got your priorities straight. [01:45:03] Speaker C: I never asked you to choose. [01:45:05] Speaker D: You never have to. [01:45:08] Speaker C: I'm a ball player. If anybody knows what that means, it should be you. [01:45:12] Speaker D: If basketball is all you care about, why are you boning me? Why don't you bone dick? Vital. Wait a minute. [01:45:20] Speaker C: Hold on. How do I know the next time you're feeling neglected or whatever, you're not gonna just run around on me? If we're gonna be together, I have to be able to trust. Trust you? [01:45:49] Speaker D: I'm not asking for us to be together. [01:45:54] Speaker C: What? [01:45:55] Speaker D: I'm going through a lot of shit right now. It's obviously more than you got time for. How? [01:46:01] Speaker C: How are you gonna tell me what I have time for? I mean, whatever I did, we can. Can fix this. [01:46:11] Speaker D: I don't think so. [01:46:14] Speaker C: You don't think so? [01:46:16] Speaker D: Look, I'm entering a draft. [01:46:19] Speaker C: You're what? [01:46:19] Speaker D: I'm going pro. Who knows where I'm going to end up, you know? [01:46:25] Speaker C: When did you decide all this? [01:46:27] Speaker D: A few days Ago. [01:46:37] Speaker C: So. So that's it? Just. Just forget about you and me. [01:46:47] Speaker D: I still like us to be friends. [01:46:50] Speaker C: Friends. [01:46:58] Speaker D: Look, I'll see you around. [01:47:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Pretty brutal. [01:47:10] Speaker B: Yeah, man. [01:47:12] Speaker A: Like, that's like a surprise breakup. It's like when you're trying to have, like, a conversation to, like, resolve a conflict, and instead, all of a sudden somebody's like, well, I don't even want to be with you. And you're like, what the yo, Right? [01:47:23] Speaker B: You're just like, where did. And I feel like it kind of like it comes out of nowhere. [01:47:29] Speaker D: Right. [01:47:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:47:30] Speaker B: I think that's extra hard because, you know, when you don't realize that there's, like. That it's spitting out so bad, and then all of a sudden you're like, whoa. Okay. It's horrible. [01:47:41] Speaker A: Yeah. No, this is really. It feels really realistic, though. This scene, totally writing. But you're just like, seriously, dude. Like, this is how you're gonna do things. [01:47:51] Speaker B: I know. And, like, she doesn't really fight at all, which, I mean, I get because, like, she's being kind of blindsided, but also, like, I don't know. Like, it's. I. I think she takes this far too well. [01:48:04] Speaker A: I think it's because she has something in her life that she's so committed to that she loves so much besides her relationship. You know, I think, like, that's what allows her to have her independence and her dignity to such an extent, is the fact that she's so good at basketball. She's succeeding at basketball, and he's asking her to choose between that thing that is so important to her, you know, and the relationship. [01:48:30] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [01:48:32] Speaker A: I mean, love and Basketball, it's right there in the title, and it's like. But you guys. Guys aren't usually, like, asked to choose between these two things. It's just assumed that, like, they can have their career and they can have love, and that people are just going to make way. Make it. Make it easy for them to have both things. Right. Yeah, but women are often asked to choose and to, like, change who they are. You know, maybe they can have either one or the other. So. [01:49:00] Speaker B: Right. [01:49:01] Speaker A: I think this conversation is a good example of that. Like, he was expecting her to drop this thing that's so important to her just so she could talk to him in that exact moment. [01:49:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, that he. That he makes it seem like his stuff is more important than her stuff. Again, like I said, I'm sure for her, she was like, dude, no, that's not how this relationship works. And also, if anybody should understand that basketball comes first. It does. And there were also phones. [01:49:27] Speaker A: You could. [01:49:28] Speaker B: We could have just called each other. Yeah, I really. I have so much trouble getting past that point. I'm like, dude, there's, like, phones. You could have called. [01:49:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it is a good way, though, to set up and show, like, you know, how these conflicts occur. Like, where he is still in this very kind of misogynistic or macho kind of way, patriarchal way of thinking. Right. Where, like, it's taken for granted that your woman is gonna, like, put everything aside to be with you. [01:49:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:49:59] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:50:00] Speaker A: And that her basketball career isn't as important as yours. [01:50:03] Speaker B: Yeah. His. Her basketball career isn't even as important as, like, his feelings about himself. Because it's not even like, he's like, I need you to come to game instead of going to your own game or something. He's just like, literally, I just want you to sit with me and make me feel better while I'm sad. [01:50:18] Speaker A: And, I mean, it is important to be there for people you're in relationship with. But she was being there. So it's. Yeah, it's. It's. He's definitely being a baby in this part of the movie for sure. [01:50:25] Speaker B: But. But I. That is such, like. I think it's such, like, a good breakup. Like, it's such a realistic breakup scene. Yeah. [01:50:33] Speaker A: And, I mean, there could be other layers to this. It's possible that he also, since he's a big star now, like, and has all these women coming after him, maybe he's wanting to take advantage of that a little more. I don't know. But yeah. Yeah. [01:50:45] Speaker B: No, we don't know. We don't. Once again, this is a section I wish we had been like, they had spent a little more time. She'd spend a little more time layering it a little bit through here. [01:50:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:50:52] Speaker B: But we only have so much time. [01:50:53] Speaker C: Okay. [01:50:54] Speaker A: I think it would make it too much Quincy's story, though. And I think she does want to center mostly on Monica. Like, they are pretty equally portrayed. But I think it is a little more Monica's story. [01:51:04] Speaker D: Right. [01:51:05] Speaker B: It's supposed to be very female centric. [01:51:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So anything more you want to say about the breakup or any of that dynamic or. [01:51:11] Speaker B: No. Nope. [01:51:13] Speaker A: So we have now one of the other clips of Magic Johnson at a press conference that's going to come between our quarters. And I wanted to talk a little bit about Magic Johnson here because I think it's interesting how his career trajectory is laid alongside of Monica's career trajectory. And I think that this clip that's in this section right before the fourth quarter, I think it's from the press conference where he announced his HIV diagnosis. I wasn't able to 100% ascertain that, but I think it is because it's around the right time period. [01:51:43] Speaker B: Okay, so. [01:51:44] Speaker A: So just a little bit for our listeners, in case you don't know about Magic Johnson much about him, here's a little brief overview of Magic Johnson. So he's often regarded as the greatest point guard of all time. You'll see this written in a lot of different places. And of course, that's Monica's position. He played for the Los Angeles lakers starting in 1979, and then he retired in 1991 after announcing he had HIV. And later he returned for one last season in 1996. One of the reasons he retired in 1991 is that some players at the time were nervous about having a teammate who was HIV positive because, you know, back then there wasn't a lot of knowledge about how HIV and AIDS were spread to people. [01:52:27] Speaker B: Right? And for, for many, it was a death sentence. Like, we don't. We think about it now, like, AIDS is, like, super controllable and easy and whatever, but, like, then it was. People just died, and that's how it was. [01:52:38] Speaker A: So Magic Johnson's announcement was very important in terms of AIDS awareness. It was especially important in spreading AIDS awareness about how heterosexual people could get aids. People who weren't using drugs could get aids. Like, there was a lot of stigma and a lot of assumptions at the time saying that, oh, you have to have, like, a certain kind of lifestyle. But, like, Magic Johnson showed that, like, you know, everybody should be aware of aids. And he went on to establish the Magic Johnson foundation for AIDS research and Awareness. And then he did keep playing. In 1992, Johnson played basketball in the Summer Olympics. And he, like I said, he went back to play in 1996 for the Lakers, too. And he's been involved in basketball in various ways since then, too, you know, as a commentator and buying teams and so forth. He was inducted in the Basketball hall of fame in 2002. And in 2025, Joe Biden awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom. And Gina Prince Bythewood included Magic Johnson in the movie due to her own fandom of him. But he has another connection to women's basketball. In 2014, Magic Johnson's investment group purchased the WNBA franchise, the Los Angeles Sparks, and which allowed it to remain in Los Angeles in An interview at the time, he said, thanks to my sister Evelyn playing college basketball, I have a great appreciation of the talented players that represent the wnba. So he's, he's taken an interest in women's basketball as well. You know, he, he has a respect for the institution. So that's kind of cool. I wish there had been a little more information that Prince Bythewood had offered in the commentary about the Magic Johnson material in the movie, but she really didn't offer too much more, so. Yeah, but I thought it was an interesting thing to have in the, in the movie. [01:54:27] Speaker B: I thought that it made her, I thought it made her more real that she had, like, this big fandom. Like when she's in her room and she's, like, pulling down posters and stuff, like, they're of, you know, Magic Johnson. Like, she clearly has loved basketball. And I guess if you love basketball, how would you not love Magic Johnson? Like, he was like, the biggest star, period. [01:54:47] Speaker A: Yeah, like, definitely one of them. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. He's one of the names that everybody knows, even if you don't care about basketball. All right, fourth quarter, 1993. The last part of the film. And it opens in Barcelona, Spain. And I'm like, why would you ever leave Barcelona? But, you know, Monica is in Barcelona. I'm going to call it half Barcelona and half Barcelona. I'm going to do the half a half year. [01:55:12] Speaker B: That's wonderful. Also, she's like a rock star there. That's right. So, like, we find out that, like, as she's, she's gone to Barcelona, which is awesome, and she's like a freaking rock star, that everywhere she goes, we were, like, asking for her autograph, giving her food, their posters of her and stuff. We're like, that's not how she is in America. Right? Not even a little bit. Yeah. [01:55:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And this was apparently pretty true. Like, you would be, like, famous if you played internationally. Like, from some of the things I saw in, in this documentary I watched. Like, people were stars over there. So. Yeah, but, and, but the thing is, she's not real happy there. She's kind of getting tired of being over there. For me, I'm like, dude, you, this is the American dream. You moved to Europe. [01:55:51] Speaker B: And I don't, I don't really get why she's unhappy there. Like, I, I, I couldn't really get a good sense of, like, what made her unhappy there. Except I think that she wasn't making connection, which is her own problem. Like, it's clear that she's not learning the language, which is, you know, come on now. If you're. If you're working there, like, you should be, like, trying, like. She has no conversations with any of her, really teammates, really, except to the coach. So the coach winds up of the Spanish team that she's on. Winds have given this big speech, all in Spanish. Yeah. There's no subtitles, which I think which [01:56:20] Speaker A: I understood the majority of. He's like. He's talking about, pero este annual es el proximo ano. He's saying, but this year is the next year. He's always, like. He's saying something. Like, every year we say, next year, next year, but this is the next year. Like, he's trying to, like, make them feel like, we got to do it now. And then they finish up with la lucha, which roughly means, like, the fight, which is very similar. In Korea, they would say fighting when you're supposed to do really well fighting. So, yeah, big, very inspirational speech. And, yeah, she doesn't know what the guy's saying. [01:56:51] Speaker B: She has no idea. And she's sitting, like, off, but, like, all the teammates are sitting, like, listening and being, like, close in a group. And she's, like, off by herself, like, putting on, like, shoes or something. And then she does wind up asking one of her teammates. She's like, so what did he say? And she's like, that he said to give you the ball. [01:57:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So she's a really good player and she's doing well, but she's not happy there. But I think, like, later when she's talking to Quincy, we get the idea that, like, maybe she's been missing him, like, this whole time and she's watching his game. In Spain, we see her watching his. His game. So she is, like, hung up on this guy. [01:57:23] Speaker B: Yeah, she. She really needs to, like, move on. I'm sure they're really hot Spanish guys who appreciate her and, you know, don't act like giant babies. [01:57:33] Speaker A: So you love this movie, but you don't like the couple getting together? [01:57:37] Speaker B: I'm perfectly fine with them getting together. So that's what she wants. And therefore, I'm happy for her. But, like, I, as Monica's friend, I would be like, girl, yeah, we need to get you under somebody else for a little while, because I think. I think you're hung up on a dude that. Who's a dream of a person who's not really the person that you think he is. [01:57:53] Speaker A: Yeah, like, there are other guys in the world. [01:57:56] Speaker B: I'll say there are other dudes in the world. And maybe you should be with one and then, you know, maybe you'll leave him behind. [01:58:02] Speaker A: Yeah, it really, like in the, one of the commentaries, like Sonal Lathan and Gina Prince Bythewood were like kind of debating amongst themselves, like, did she sleep with anyone else, like in all these interview intervening years? And one of them, I can't remember which one said probably she had. The other one said probably she hadn't. And I feel like she seems like someone who hasn't really. [01:58:21] Speaker B: I don't think she has. I think she's like, this is my one trick pony. That's my dude. And I. She's also just like, like, she's also just very like, awkward. Like it doesn't show too much because she's very focused on sports. Right. Like in social settings. Like, she is actually very awkward. And I think that that is something that also makes it hard for her to, you know, she's introverted and she's not like, yeah, out there. [01:58:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:58:48] Speaker B: You know, she needs a sidekick who, like, was her, like, wingman. [01:58:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, she runs into a potential, you know, sidekick if they were playing in the same country. She runs into Sidra, who she took the point guard position from at usc. And Sidra is on the opposing team at the IWBA championship game that she's playing in. And after Monica's team win, we see Monica and Sidra eating together. And Sidra is like, happy about her situation. Like, she likes being treated like a star. She likes the Italian men. She's happy with her situation. But Monica's missing home. And that's kind of the whole point of their little combo. And I'm like, team Sidra on this. I'm like, I'm very happy for Sidra. [01:59:27] Speaker B: I am too. I was like. Like, I looked at Sidra and I was like, Monica should be living this life too. Like, these are her, like, prime years and this is like a place that loves her. Why would you go back to a place that doesn't? [01:59:38] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. Yeah, but it's, you know, different people, I guess. Different people. [01:59:42] Speaker B: The heart wants what the heart wants, man. [01:59:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So Monica's then watching Quincy's game and that game, we then see the, the game change to Quincy's dad also watching the game. And in this game that she's watching, Quincy gets injured and we find out he has torn his acl. We then go back into Quincy's life and he's in the hospital and first his dad goes to visit him. [02:00:06] Speaker B: I also got the impression when I was watching this section is that Quincy has been playing, but maybe he hasn't. Like, he's not important. Right. He's not like a star. He's kind of like. He sits on the bench a bunch and he's. He's not, like. He's not really living the dream. [02:00:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that idea, too. I think they even say something like. Like, it's great to see the players from the bench or something. [02:00:28] Speaker B: Yeah, something like that. [02:00:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:00:30] Speaker B: Like, getting them out there, you're like, quincy has made poor choices is what we're learning right now. [02:00:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And. But, like, you know, he still is in the NBA, but, like, now he's got this injury that's quite serious, and his dad goes to visit him. And I don't. Like, honestly, I didn't take notes on what they said, and I don't really remember what they said. I just remember that Quincy's crying at this point. [02:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Quincy was continuing just live his worst life. And his dad's like, dude, like, you get over your shit. And, like, what? You know, you made these choices. You just got to live in them. [02:01:04] Speaker A: It's been like five years, apparently, since they were visiting, so. Yeah. [02:01:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And then Monica comes in. [02:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And she comes in and she tells him that she's not going back to Europe and basketball isn't fun anymore, which Quincy finds just, like, very incomprehensible, sensible. Which honestly, like, I would find kind of annoying, too, if I just injured myself and someone's like, I don't care that much about basketball and they're totally healthy and they can still play. I'd be like, maybe this isn't the right time. Like, [02:01:31] Speaker B: well. But, like, it is, because he's like, well, why would you be here? And she's like, I'm not happy. And really, what? The conversation. The subtext of this whole conversation is I've come back because I want you back. And I think that now that you're injured, maybe I can have you back. I don't know. And then Quincy's just like, girl, you look fine. But, like, also. Hold on one second. Tyra Banks walks in. A young, gorgeous Tierra Banks, who apparently is Quincy's fiance. [02:01:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Tyra Banks plays his fiance. She's a flight attendant. What's interesting to me is both of them are wearing red. Like, she's wearing. Tyra Banks is wearing this red suit. And meanwhile, Sanaa Lathan's wearing, like, a red shirt. Looks a little bit like, you know, suburban mom shirt. [02:02:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:02:14] Speaker A: So I think that was purposeful. I think they were both wearing red. But then, you know, Monica's still not really going to be winning on her fashion plate looks or anything. [02:02:22] Speaker B: No, no. And, like, sequins is like, look, I have this hot flight attendant fiance who's here to, like, make me feel better. Tyra Banks brings him flowers that I think is adorable. She's like, here's some flowers, baby. And Monica, like, is like, oh, I thought you were just waiting around for me. Like, I, like, I don't know what Monica thought was going to happen when she came. She, like, clearly did not, like, get the four. One, one on what was going on life, which should have been a one phone call away. [02:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah, right? She could have called her mom because her mom already knows about this girl. [02:02:51] Speaker B: Yeah, like, that's. I was like. I was like, what is she? What is Monica out there doing? Like, I don't. I don't understand where Monica's head was, but okay. She's just like, I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna win Quincy. And she's like, oh, I didn't know he had a fiance. I don't talk to anybody. I'm just living in Spain. [02:03:08] Speaker A: Well, anyway, now she goes back and talks to her mom about the Quincy situation, but her and her mom end up having just, like, a totally different conversation about how neither of them really feels like the other one respects them. Like, like, we find out that Alfred Woodard, all these years, has felt like Monica never respected her and was maybe even ashamed of her for being a housewife. And meanwhile, Monica's like, you didn't come to my games. Or if you did come, you brought a book. And, like, I never felt like you cared about what I did, only if I looked pretty that one night. And, like, it's a whole intense interaction between these two. [02:03:41] Speaker D: It is. [02:03:41] Speaker B: And it's actually like a really, like, it's a real solid, good conversation for, like, if you've ever had a mom and daughter conversation that has gone like, like, as. As adults, like, this is how they go where you're like, oh, I. I had these expectations. You didn't meet them. And the other. The other. The mom can now be like, hey, you're an adult. Let me talk to you like one. Okay. I don't. I don't like how you've been treating me or respecting me or whatever. And I don't know. I. [02:04:10] Speaker A: Do you. [02:04:10] Speaker B: Do you think that Monica did not respect her mom? [02:04:14] Speaker A: I think when you're a kid, it is pretty natural to, like, worry more about how your mom is regarding you than how you're regarding your mom. You know, I don't think parents necessarily become real people to you until you're a certain age. [02:04:28] Speaker B: I agree. [02:04:28] Speaker A: Necessarily. So I think, like, I think Monica has some legitimate grievances with how her mom was always complaining about her being a tomboy and her just playing sports. I don't think she ever felt accepted. [02:04:40] Speaker B: I agree. Like, I thought that that conversation, like, I don't think, I think it was her mom's responsibility to show her or to explain to her that, like, yes, she does a lot for her father, but these are the reasons and that it's hard to be a housewife and that these are the choices she made because they make her happy. And although they're different, they have different, like what they. What each of would make them happy is very different. She, as her mom would all just wants her to be happy and also hope she understands that, like, she's trying to be a good role model and how, like, how you love your family in different ways. [02:05:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:05:19] Speaker B: But they don't have those conversations. And it is sad that also that Monica's mom essentially is like, you didn't want me to come to your games. And Monica's like, of course I wanted you to come to my games. You're my mom. And you can see like, the blow of that. Those words to her mother. You know, she really didn't. I don't think that her mom really thought that she ever wondered. I think she, she was embarrassed by her. So because her mom had all these, like, hang ups about how Monica was feeling towards her, she kind of like tanked that relationship. [02:05:47] Speaker A: Yeah, parents don't always. Yeah, parents don't always know what they're doing. [02:05:52] Speaker B: Yeah, they don't. You know, like, we always think as kids that our parents, like, know everything. And then when you come adults, you're like, oh, right, they're just flailing around in the dark too. [02:06:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:06:01] Speaker B: So I thought this was a really good conversation for both. I could have watched a whole section of just like mom and Monica. Like, I could have watched a whole subplot of that. Because I think that their relationship is so layered and we only get to see, like, the very tip of it [02:06:16] Speaker A: all right now guess what? It's another montage. Because that's what this movie needed. Honestly, like, okay, I've rated this five on letterboxd and now I'm considering it. Putting it back down to a 4.5 again. Just because there's too many montages. [02:06:31] Speaker B: Like when I just do the things that they're supposed to do? [02:06:34] Speaker A: No, but there's too many of them. It's just too much. It's like. It's too much. I like montages, but there's too many in this movie. [02:06:41] Speaker B: I'm sorry. What we need is a montage. Because everything can happen in a montage. [02:06:47] Speaker A: So this one is to the song Holding Back the Years, which is performed by Angie Stone. And that's a song that has a lot of regret in it. You know, like, it's. It's a song. It's kind of a sad song. Like, it has words like, I've wasted all my tears. Wasted all of those years and nothing had the chance to be good. So this is a regret, a regret, a sad montage. And we see Monica putting. Taking down her posters, putting away her basketball stuff. She looks at a picture of her and Quincy when they were happy. And then she's training at the bank. She's going to work at the bank where her dad works. And meanwhile, Quincy is trying to get back in shape. And Monica sees Quincy with his fiance in his room across the yard from her. So once again, we see this across the yard view. [02:07:34] Speaker B: Okay, so I'm going to say here, so do we think at this point, how do you feel about Monica? Jennifer, at this point in this movie? Movie, how are you? What do you. What are your feelings about Monica? [02:07:44] Speaker A: Like, she is not a character I identify with much, to be honest. Like, I don't really identify with either of the main characters in this movie. Like, it's not that I dislike them, but, like, I would not make the choices either of them make. Like, I feel like I'd be with Sidra. I'd be with Sidra over in Europe, bad, living my best life. I'm sorry. [02:08:03] Speaker B: True, true. Same with me. But, like, I just. I think it's really interesting. Like, I look at. I look at how, like, just, like, mopey Monica kind of is and how she's like, I'm giving up this thing that I've been so passionate about for so long. And I really. One of the things I think this movie is missing is the reason why Monica stops loving basketball. Because this is something like she has picked over everything for so many years. And I don't know why exactly she stopped loving basketball. And I know in real life, sometimes, you know, it's a slow kind of like, eek. Of you deciding you're changing. You don't like this thing anymore. But, like, I don't. I didn't really understand why Suddenly, she just was not about basketball. And she's gonna go, like, work a regular job, like, in a bank, like her dad. I mean, that seems so not Monica. [02:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you could at least be like, a basketball coach or something. I don't know, work in a school. [02:08:57] Speaker B: Something that's still adjacent to something that you actually absolutely love. [02:09:01] Speaker A: Well, she tells Quincy, like, eventually, like, we get there in a minute or two. She tells Quincy it's because of him. Like, he's what's missing. And. And, like, maybe, I don't know, but, like, she has this fiance now, so it's like. Yeah, for me, it's like she should have, like, told him, like, basically right away, like, listen, I came back for you, and I guess you have a fiance now. So I guess I'll go back to Europe if you're not interested. I don't know. [02:09:25] Speaker C: Right. [02:09:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:09:26] Speaker A: I like getting to the point. Point with these things. I don't like moping around and taking a whole ass job at a bank, you know? [02:09:32] Speaker B: Also, like. Like. Like they've been apart for so long. [02:09:38] Speaker A: Like, five years. I mean, that's not that long, to be honest. If you're really. [02:09:42] Speaker B: Like, those years are, like, formative years. Like, they've been away from each other, so. And apparently they haven't been having conversations. Like, they've just been apart. And then she's pining over this guy. [02:09:53] Speaker A: Like, I get the pining. I understand the pining. I have pined for longer than that, so I could. Pining, I understand. But what I don't understand is, like, not just coming back if you've been pining that much. Not just coming back and getting to the point. I don't know. [02:10:06] Speaker B: Well, that's what I'm saying. If she's been pining this long, right, Girl, go again. Pick up the phone. [02:10:15] Speaker A: There's no phones in this universe. Civil data exists. [02:10:18] Speaker C: Phone. [02:10:19] Speaker B: It's the 90s. Drop an email, right? I don't know. Pick up a phone and be like, hey, I saw your game. All I've done is think about you. I miss you. Like, have a conversation. Instead you're like, I'm just gonna blow up. So, like, I think this is supposed to be, like, she's supposed to be blowing up her life, but she's doing in a quieter way. [02:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:10:39] Speaker B: Like, I don't really understand her motivation here. And it's a part of the film that makes me very sad because I'm like, I. I want to understand why Monica has decided that she's going to give A product essentially, like her mom for a man. [02:10:54] Speaker A: Well, most people. Most people weren't using email yet. So I'm just going to put that little quibble in there. It's 93. So that was. [02:10:59] Speaker B: I said, pick up the phone. [02:11:01] Speaker A: Yeah, the phone. Phone too. Yeah, phone too. So that, like, that part doesn't make much sense. But, like. Yeah, I don't know. She's. She's not a very direct person. [02:11:09] Speaker B: She is. You know, it takes her a long time to get places too. [02:11:13] Speaker A: Like, the first time around. She liked him when she was 11. Apparently she liked him all through high school. And they don't get together until, like, the end of high school. [02:11:21] Speaker B: Right. [02:11:21] Speaker A: So, like, she's. She's slow. So. Yeah. [02:11:24] Speaker B: Yeah. So this is just a part where I'm just. I'm always curious. Like, because when people watch the film, I'm like, I want you to tell me why Monica gives up basketball. And most people are like, well, I think it's because she wanted to be with Quincy. And then they say. And they're like, oh. And I'm like, right. She gives up the thing she loves because Quincy needs her to give up basketball ball. There's nothing in her. There's nothing that said that she had to give a basketball to have Quincy. She made that decision and it's. I think it's a really strange one. [02:11:52] Speaker A: Well, because at the time the WNBA didn't exist yet. Maybe in the movie. Like, maybe it's like implying that she's in the first season of the wnba, you know, at the end of the movie. [02:12:01] Speaker B: Okay. [02:12:02] Speaker A: So, like, I think that's probably why, like, literally she can't play professional basketball in the United States. But, like, like, we were talking, she could still been a coach or something. So. [02:12:10] Speaker B: Yeah, she could have done something adjacent. Now we're to going at a bank. Okay, thanks for, like, taking the time to talk to me about this because this is an area that I'm always like. I would love to know what was her motivation and what people think is her motivation. [02:12:22] Speaker A: All right, let's see. Where were we? [02:12:23] Speaker B: Okay, so we're at the point where she's pining. So she's wasted all these years and whatever thing. And she sees across the way that Quincy is, like, with his fiance. And she decides. She decides finally that maybe she should do something about this. [02:12:39] Speaker A: Yeah, but, like, first, before she does something, we have this little scene where Quincy talks to Monica. She's coming back from the bank and he tells her that she. He's thinking of quitting Basketball. But he hasn't told his fiance yet. And he tells her, it seems like I needed ball when I was trying to be like my pop. So, like, it seems like Quincy's attachment to basketball is less organic than. Than Monica's. Like, yeah, he was doing it in some ways to please his dad rather than to, like, be himself. But he's very confused as to why she quits. He says, I never knew anyone loved ball as much as you. [02:13:15] Speaker B: Right. [02:13:16] Speaker A: And also, the fiance's not there right now. She's on some kind of little trip. So, I mean, she is a flight attendant, so that makes sense. So, yeah, that's been established. This is the moment where you might want to talk to him, but she doesn't do it yet. [02:13:29] Speaker B: This would be the moment where you're like, you know, the reason why I left is because I missed you. And so I've decided I want to be with you. Quit, leave your fiance behind and come be with me. [02:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah, but I want to put in. There is a deleted scene on the DVD where Quincy's actually starting to tell his fiance about how he's not really into basketball anymore. And she's not really listening. Like, she's like, oh, baby, you can still do it. You're just gonna get in shape and it's gonna be great. And it's like, either she, like, doesn't want to hear it, or she just doesn't understand. And so that was a scene they deleted, but it kind of shows you context of like, oh, this is maybe a woman who's not 100% with Quincy. Maybe for the right reasons, maybe. Yeah. [02:14:10] Speaker B: You know, or she's just trying to be supportive. I don't know. I think it's a good scene. I'm sorry. They deleted it because, like, that seems like it could. That would have really added layers to, like, you know, why maybe she decided to leave. [02:14:21] Speaker A: Yeah. With the pacing, though, I think, like, it makes the movie a little faster. So. [02:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:14:26] Speaker A: So now we come to a scene where Monica's tossing and turning in bed at night, and she goes out of her window again. And she knocks on Quincy's window. And he is, like, not the way he used to be about it. He's very reluctant. Kind of like, why are you waking me up? And then she confesses her feelings to him. And I've got a clip of that that leads into a basketball game they play. So let's listen. [02:14:53] Speaker C: You asked me what was missing. What, from basketball? [02:14:58] Speaker D: You woke me up to tell me [02:14:59] Speaker C: that it's not fun for me Anymore because you're missing. What I'm trying to say is. I've loved you since I was 11. Shit won't go away. [02:15:16] Speaker D: We haven't talked since college. You wait two weeks before my wedding to tell me something like that? [02:15:25] Speaker C: I know I probably should have said it two weeks ago. [02:15:29] Speaker D: You haven't changed. You still think the sun rises and sets on your ass. Guess what? It doesn't. [02:15:39] Speaker C: Then why are you so upset? [02:15:40] Speaker D: Because you don't pull this shit on someone who's about to get married. [02:15:44] Speaker C: Better late than never, right? Right. Wrong. I'll play you. [02:15:55] Speaker D: What? [02:15:55] Speaker C: One game. One on one. [02:15:58] Speaker D: For what? [02:16:01] Speaker C: Your heart? [02:16:04] Speaker D: You're out of your mind. [02:16:06] Speaker C: So what, you gonna bitch up, huh? [02:16:09] Speaker D: What's that supposed to be, some psychology? [02:16:11] Speaker C: Look, look, I know why you broke up with me in college. And not that it wasn't messed up, but I should have been there for you. I just didn't know how to do that and be all about ball. [02:16:25] Speaker D: Monica, after that stuff with my dad, couldn't trust anybody, okay? I was lost. That was five years ago. I've moved on. [02:16:42] Speaker C: Prove it. [02:16:45] Speaker D: Oldest prove. [02:16:46] Speaker C: You once said the reason I beat you was because you wanted me to. [02:16:50] Speaker D: So? [02:16:51] Speaker C: So if I win, it's because deep down you know you're about to make the biggest mistake of your life. And deep down, you want me to stop you. [02:17:05] Speaker D: And what happens when you lose? [02:17:10] Speaker C: If I lose, I'll buy you a wedding present. [02:17:17] Speaker A: All right, I'm stopping it there. So after this, they go and they do play their one on one game. And it's actually a pretty tense scene. Like, I gotta say, the first time I watched this movie, I did not know how it was gonna turn out. [02:17:31] Speaker D: Really? [02:17:31] Speaker B: Okay. [02:17:32] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I didn't. I was like, oh, shit. Like, he does not look very pleased with her at all. [02:17:37] Speaker B: No, I mean, I do. Like, I do really like that he's like. He's like, you know what? I'm showing you that, like, I don't have to accept what you. What you're putting down. Because she's. She's making the assumption, like, you're gonna throw this game for me, right? And then he's just like, no, I'm not going to. [02:17:52] Speaker A: Yeah, like, I feel it's pretty tense. Like she has some initial success in the game. She makes a couple points, but then Quincy catches up with her. And you actually see, like, Monica on her face. She's losing hope. She's like, oh, no. Like, he's trying to win now. And the scene is set to this song. Fool of Me by Michelle and Gocello. And it's a really nice song. Like, very kind of sad, even a little bit. So it's. Yeah, it's pretty tense to me. I felt like, even when I watch it now, I'm like, I know how the movie's going to turn out, but, like, I don't know if Quincy has made up his mind about her. Like, even while he's playing the game. I mean, this has all been sprung on him very suddenly, right? [02:18:35] Speaker B: And, like, she waits, like, literally the last second, she's like, it's like two weeks right before his wedding, right? [02:18:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Like, in a lot of romance movies, it's, like, at the altar. [02:18:45] Speaker B: So, like, really, for a moment even. So I'm just like, girl, you've been sitting around for how long? Once again, like, what gave you the courage after pining? [02:18:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And at one point in the game, like, Quincy actually kind of pushes her in order to make a shot. And then this line comes back from their strip basketball game. He says, all's fair in love and basketball, right? But this time it's not playful or flirty. It's, like, kind of being defiant to her. [02:19:10] Speaker B: Right. Do you think that when he goes into this game with her that he wants. That he, like, he already knows that he's going to, like, let her win, or do you think he's like, no, I really am pissed that, like, I mean, he doesn't. [02:19:21] Speaker A: She doesn't win, he wins. I don't think he's. I honestly, I'm not even sure. Like, I think the moment he decides that he's going to, like, maybe take her back is actually when she turns away and looks so defeated. I think it's like, after he's won the game, and then she's realized that he won, and then she turns and want to walk away, and her shoulders are kind of slumped and she looks so sad. I think that's the moment when he's like, oh, I do love her. [02:19:48] Speaker B: Right? So what? [02:19:49] Speaker A: Because I don't want to see. Because I don't want to see her sad, and I don't want her to walk away. [02:19:53] Speaker B: Okay, that. That's what I want to know. Because I'm like, what makes him change his mind? Because I also think that he went into that game being like. Like, what is this about? Right? Like, I'm living my life perfectly without you, and, like, you've not even been in it, and suddenly you're, like, all of a sudden declaring love to me. But then, like, something happens. And it's whether she finally, like, he realizes that she is going to give up on him and that maybe he always thought that she had him. He had her kind of in the corner because she always was. She's always kind of been like the girl that he could fall back on because I think he always knew she kind of liked him. And then he realizes, no, she's. This is it. It's now or never. [02:20:28] Speaker A: I think it's just like he does. He sees that she's genuine. He sees, like, how genuinely hurt she is. And I think that's what does it. And he doesn't want her to be hurt. And it also shows him that she genuinely, genuinely cares. It's not just, like, a whim or she's not just spiraling out, you know, by quitting her job and working at a bank. And then he's just convenient. I think he's like, oh, shit. No, she really did come back for me. [02:20:49] Speaker B: Right? Okay. [02:20:51] Speaker A: Anyway, he. He wins. And then she turns away. She looks really sad. And then he says, hey, double or nothing. And that's the moment, you know, they're getting back together. And then. Then they hug and they kiss and, like, yay. Although it doesn't feel, like, super uplifting yet. Like, and this was. And this was the original ending. It was just going to end here. But then Gina Prince bythewood was able to change her script because the WNBA came into existence. So we get this added part at the end, which makes it much happier, where there's a WNBA team playing and Monica is on it. She is in the LA Sparks in this version of the ending. And this was shot in an actual Sparks game. And she's wearing a 30 number 32 uniform that says Wright McCall on the back. And then we see Quincy in the audience of the game holding, like, their little girl and saying, like, look at Mommy. And that's really sweet. [02:21:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it's true. Yeah. I think this end is far more satisfying if the. If we stopped on the blacktop, I would have been like, well, okay. But in my mind, I'm like, okay, so they're gonna get back together for. For a little bit of time, and that. That relationship's gonna blow up again. So. [02:22:00] Speaker A: Really, you would have assumed it would blow up? [02:22:02] Speaker B: Absolutely. I'm still not 100% sure that they don't blow up again. [02:22:06] Speaker A: Why, like, now he's a nice little, like. Like, dad with his daughter. And, like, looking at the game and everything, like, he seems happy. [02:22:14] Speaker B: I mean, yeah. But, like, you know, give him three Four years, five years, six years. We'll see how that goes. [02:22:19] Speaker A: Maybe he's like studying to be a doctor or something. We don't know. [02:22:22] Speaker B: I mean, I hope that he goes and he works for House and, and that's, that's just the continuation of his life. [02:22:29] Speaker A: Like, we don't know. He could be doing anything. He could be working at the bank. I don't know. [02:22:33] Speaker B: I. Absolutely, he could have. Absolutely. There's. He could be doing anything. [02:22:38] Speaker A: He could be a coach. We don't know. We know what Monica's doing, which is kind of awesome as well. Like actually like Omar Epps said about the movie to espn, one of the biggest things that drew me to the film was how it ended. I love the fact that it was the woman who went on to achieve those specific dreams of playing ball and the man who took a step aside. They had a family. He fell into that role and they were cool with it. So yeah, I like that. Oh, and there's a post credit scene too where you see Monica and Quincy's little daughter putting a basketball into one of those tiny little toddler basketball hoops, which is adorable. So you've also seen the post credit scene? [02:23:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. In my mind, I'm always like, what really happens is she doesn't play basketball ever. And she gets like super into like, I don't know, skateboarding or something. Like she's still going to be athletic because they're both very athletic, but she's like, she's like basketball stupid. I'm super into ballet. [02:23:31] Speaker A: Oh, and then she and her mom can misunderstand each other. Like Monica and her mom. Absolutely. [02:23:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. [02:23:37] Speaker A: Fantastic. Or she could become like a grandma's girl and get really into like baking pies and that'd be amazing. [02:23:43] Speaker B: She's an aunt. She's an auntie and grandma's girl. She's like, I love makeup. I like being a princess. I like makeup and I can't wait to like make my own clothes. [02:23:54] Speaker A: Who knows? All right, so I'm ready actually to talk about double features if you are. [02:24:00] Speaker B: Okay, let's talk double features, which I found very hard for the film. [02:24:05] Speaker A: Really. Okay, so this is the reason. Okay. So honestly, like I'm like, like I said before, like I was sort of leaving aside the other sonal Ethan like rom coms because I thought probably you'd seen them and I thought you were going to take them. So I've never seen them. [02:24:20] Speaker B: So now. [02:24:20] Speaker A: Yes. So like, I'm going to say neither of us are recommending them in our double Features, but I'm going to call out something new is one that people should watch. Brown Sugar and the Perfect Guy are all other Sonal Lathan rom coms. So those are just three that I've seen. I like them well enough. They're not my double features today because I did a theme. But listeners, that's just another set that you could go with. So now on to Sybil. [02:24:45] Speaker B: All right, so the first one I'm going to do is the Swimmers, which is a 2022 film. It's about two girls who are sisters who like, immigrate to America in a really very hard way, a hard method, and become swimmers. And then kind of what it's like to have a dream of being in the water and swimming and how those can sometimes fail or not. I think it's a very powerful movie. What I liked about it, that it's as like a double feature, is that it's about somebody who's very passionate, a woman who's very passionate about their sports. And I think that the underlying thing that I love about love and basketball is the. The passion for what you're doing. And especially when it's a sport. I think that there needs to be more women films that are like that. [02:25:32] Speaker A: I haven't heard of this one yet, so I'll keep an eye out for it. [02:25:35] Speaker B: Yeah, this is one of my favorite movies that I watched in 2022. [02:25:38] Speaker A: Like, oh, okay. [02:25:39] Speaker B: I've told everyone to watch it. I think it's so powerful. The next one I'm going to recommend is the program from 1993, which is a football movie with Omar Epps in it. And what I like about this particular film is it does, like football really well. I don't watch football, but, like, when I was. There's a lot of, like, good footballing. It's like when you watch, like, Friday Night Lights, the TV show, there's, like, still very good football sections besides just the rest of the film. Whereas I always felt love and basketball didn't really have great basketball in it. And I really do like a sports film that has, like, some, like, sport in it. Just like, enough sport or like, I'm like, I'm rooting for a game, right? There's never. There was never a part in Love and Basketball wherever I'm rooting for a game ever. [02:26:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. There's not like. I mean, there are games that are important, but, like, they aren't really built up or drained out very much. [02:26:32] Speaker B: Right. You're not, like, rooting for a Game. You're not like, oh, this is. This is gonna make and break her career or like, whatever. Right. Nothing pins on it. It just happens to be that she's passionate about basketball and he's passionate about basketball, and that's something that brought them together. [02:26:45] Speaker A: I mean, really, the only game that you're like, really, is the one at the end where she's playing for his heart. And then you're like, oh, right, yeah, that's it. [02:26:53] Speaker B: So this one, the program, I find, does a better job being, like a sports film where, like, it gives kind of that feel to it, and I do appreciate that. And it's a good sports film. And then the final. I have the Secret Life of bees from 2008, and that one is written and directed by our same director. And I think she. I think she was nominated for awards for this one too. [02:27:14] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [02:27:15] Speaker B: This was a really good. It's very different, but it's a really good film. Has Queen Latifah in it. Come on now. She's fantastic. And I just. It's. It's a slower. Like, it's a slower film, but it's still very layered. The same way that for Lover Basketball is. Right? Very layered of, like, people and relationships. [02:27:34] Speaker A: Yeah, Like, I have seen it. It's. It's definitely. It's a coming of age story too, [02:27:38] Speaker B: if I recall correctly. Yeah, it is. [02:27:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:27:41] Speaker B: I like the Secret Life of Bees. It is a slower film, though. [02:27:45] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. And just speaking of Queen Latifah, you just reminded me of another one that was almost on my double features, which is just right where Queen Latifah is like a physical therapist helping a basketball player. So, yeah, you've seen that, right? [02:27:59] Speaker B: I thought about putting that one on the list and I decided the Secret Life of Bees was better. [02:28:03] Speaker A: Okay. [02:28:04] Speaker D: Yeah. [02:28:04] Speaker A: Well, I mean, it is Gina Prince bythewood. [02:28:05] Speaker B: So there you go. Exactly. Exactly. And I was like. I'm like, I'm gonna use the Secret Life of Bees. But you're absolutely correct. I looked it just right and was like, ah, no, I'm gonna go with Secret Life of Bees. [02:28:14] Speaker A: All right. So for mine, I decided to go with kind of a coming of age sports movie theme. And so the first one I'm choosing is Girl Fight, which I just re watched. It's from 2000. It was kind of Michelle Rodriguez's breakout role. And in it, she plays a girl who decides to get into boxing. And she deals with a lot of the same kind of pressures about, like, being a tomboy and, like, you Know, being a girl in a sport that's often dominated by men. It's directed by Karen Kusama and it's, it's very well done. Like it's another character that I don't super relate to in a lot of ways. Like I'm not like a tough girl, I'm not really aggressive that way. But like it's an interesting portrayal. It's the kind of woman character that we don't really see all that often. And I think it's well done as a coming of age story. And there's also a romance and there's a guy who has to like sort of, you know, deal with what it means to date a girl who's, you know, who's into sports and who wants to be equal and who's independent and yeah, kind of deals with those gender roles as well. Have you seen that one? [02:29:21] Speaker B: I have. It was so long ago though. [02:29:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:29:23] Speaker B: I can barely remember. I can barely remember that movie. [02:29:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I had to rewatch it because I only seen it. Had seen it when it first came out. Yeah. [02:29:31] Speaker B: I mean that's 25 years ago now. [02:29:33] Speaker A: Don't remind me. The second one I'm going to go with is Bend It Lake Beckham from 2002. I'm sure a lot of people have seen this from directed by Gurinder Chadha. It's a soccer movie and you have in this one two girl soccer players. One of the girls, though her family is of Indian background living in Britain and she's also dealing with pressure to like be more like a girl and be less into sports and be more interested in going to like a wedding and getting dressed up than being in her sports championship. So it's another thing where girls trying to have. Having to sort of like go against these gender stereotypes and do something she really cares about, which is playing soccer. And I think it's very affirming. It's a very life affirming movie. It's a great coming of age story. I find it very romance and it [02:30:24] Speaker B: does have a great romance in it. [02:30:25] Speaker A: It has, yeah. The romance is much more downplayed in this one though, like, than it is in love and true. [02:30:30] Speaker B: But like I still find that the romance in here is like solid. [02:30:33] Speaker A: A lot of people though really wish that it was like a lesbian romance. I'll tell you, like if you go on letterboxd, like people will complain about that. [02:30:40] Speaker B: I don't need it to do a lesbian romance. I'm happy with it as. As is. [02:30:45] Speaker A: And then let's see and then I've kind of got two that are kind of like tied for my other double feature. So I'll just mention both of them briefly. One of them I, I went and watched Gina Prince Bythewood's Emmy Award winning CBS School Break Special from 1995, what about yout Friends? And it's about these like three black girls who are in their senior year of high school and they're kind of like making decisions about what they're going to do next in life. And I thought it was just a very well done portrayal of like female friendship and being that age and yeah, I think it's worth your time. It. I was only able to find it on YouTube and not a great print. But maybe people have ways of finding things that I don't have. So if you're able, like it's, it's worth checking out. It was a great example of Gina Prince bythewood's early work. And then another one it's sort of tied for double feature is the Wood from 1999. Sanaa Lathan and Omar Epps appear together in this movie, although Sanaa Lathan is only really in it for like a couple minutes. Like Omar Epps is in it for, for much more of the movie. It's about these guys who are like one of their friends is getting married, but he's kind of gone missing and they have to go and find him and get him back to the wedding. And at the same time they're reminiscing about their days growing up in Inglewood. And it kind of shows their memories of growing up at that time and like meeting girls and like being friends, being guys together. It is a very guy oriented movie. I will say this like, like, it's not like from a female viewpoint at all, but it was well done and like Omar Epps shows like some talent in it. But I actually like the, the younger kid parts of the movie better and I really like the younger kid parts of Love and basketball. I could have spent more time with the younger actors in that movie too. So if you want more of like, yeah, if you want more of younger kids back in the 80s and 90s interacting with each other, definitely check out the Wood. You will enjoy it. All right. Yeah. It's been wonderful talking with you, Sybil. Again, I'm glad that you advocated for this movie. [02:32:43] Speaker B: Thank you. I'm glad that you enjoyed it and I hope that it's now in the ears of other people so that they can go watch it because it's such a good film. Everyone should see this film. [02:32:52] Speaker A: Yes, definitely agree with that. And thank you for listening, everybody. Goodbye. [02:32:57] Speaker C: Bye.