[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Jen.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: I'm Sophia.
[00:00:03] Speaker C: And I'm Darren.
[00:00:04] Speaker A: And you're listening to every Rom com, the podcast where we have fun taking romantic comedies seriously.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: This week on every rom com, we're continuing our sports rom com series with a look at what Sports Illustrated once called the greatest sports movie of all time.
[00:00:21] Speaker C: We'll take a look at the world of minor league baseball as portrayed in a film written and directed by a former minor league player.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: And we'll check out the careers of Kevin Costner and Susan Sarandon as We explore the 1988 Baseball Classic Bull Dur.
Hello, Sophia.
Hi, Jen.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: How are you?
[00:01:06] Speaker A: Oh, I'm excited. I'm happy to be here today. This is Sophia. This is your first episode in our sports rom com series? Yes, I think so. Yeah. But it's not going to be your last. We've got a lot of really cool sports rom coms that we have planned in the future and I think you're going to be at least on one crazy summer coming up.
And then we definitely have to get bend it Lake Beckham at some point. What else are you looking forward to?
[00:01:30] Speaker B: I thought there was a running one we were going to maybe look into.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Oh, yes. Run, fat boy, run. Which, which I, which was kind of on my B list, but like you like seized on that one right away. You're like that one. So yeah, we'll get that one into.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: Okay. Awesome.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: I don't consider myself a sports person, but I do love a sports film. I love a sports documentary. And when I get a chance to see some live SP sports, it's the best time ever. So I got, I'm really excited.
Yeah, I'm.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm excited to continue the series with you. And today we also have a guest, a first time guest on every rom com. We're going to be welcoming Darren Lundberg. So I'm going to give a little introduction to him and then we'll, we'll get talking with him today. Darren Lundberg has been podcasting for nearly a decade, but he's been a film obsessive for longer than he can remember.
Movies have been his babysitter, confidant, and constant companion. And in 2016, he started the Nostalgia Cast podcast with best friend Johnny Craddock, in which they revisit and review the films of their childhoods to see if they stand the test of time or if they're past their prime.
In 2023, Darren also started the Back to Bluey podcast with co host Robert Yannis Jr. In which they discussed the Australian animated phenomenon Bluey from a father's perspective as an aspirational tool for their families during the day to day. And just really glad to have you here on the podcast today. Darren, thanks so much for joining us.
[00:03:04] Speaker C: It's an honor to be part of this. What episode is this that you ladies are running?
[00:03:09] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. It'll be. I think this puts us in the 80s when I get this one out. I'm about five behind on editing right now, so.
[00:03:17] Speaker C: I know that.
[00:03:19] Speaker A: But it's been a long road, though, because I had a whole year off where I was dealing with Long Covid. I still have Long Covid, but I'm kind of like, getting back on the train here, so.
[00:03:28] Speaker C: Yeah, but I'm sorry to hear that.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: 10 years, though. 10 years you've been podcasting.
[00:03:32] Speaker C: Yeah, since 2016. So it's been a long, long. We took a long break in there because, like you, Jen, I added a lot and it was. Got to the point where it wasn't fun anymore because I was cutting out every single. Every single, like, pause. And it just. It would take me days or if not a week to edit a single episode. And it just. It took a toll, so we had to take a break.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: I feel you.
I feel you on that. But. Yeah, but Nostalgia Cast is a great concept, and I've listened to a number of your episodes and I'm wondering, why did you decide that viewpoint for your podcast? Looking at movies from your childhoods, looking at these nostalgic films.
[00:04:11] Speaker C: Well, like, everybody and their dog, everybody wants to start a podcast, right? And so about the time 2016, I was feeling just kind of, I don't know, creatively spent, and I didn't want to lose that. So I started listening to some podcasts and thought, oh, that's something I could do. And obviously you try to look for a hook, right? And I just remembered the thing that I kind of groked on is that back in 2006, I went see Cars and Superman Returns both came out. Cars is an interesting idea because there's that whole idea about Radiator Springs and how it loses touch because everybody's passing them by on the freeway and everybody's nostalgic about. And has that whole sequence with the. I think James Taylor has that song where he's singing about the times gone by, and it just makes you feel nostalgic for those. It was very sweet kind of way to reach back into the past. And then Superman Returns was an interesting experience because that movie's all about Nostalgia. And after a certain while, you run out of anything interesting to say, and so you're like, well, is that the whole point of the movie? Right? So I remember that being a very interesting one, two punch. And then in 2016, when the Ghostbusters Answer the Call movie came out with all the Saturday Night Live stars, an interesting thing happened because you had this weird. Like, I loved Ghostbusters as a kid, but the fact that, you know, Leslie Jones and Kate McKinnon and, you know, Melissa McCarthy and Kristen Wiig, they got death threats when they made the movie because they were just playing Ghostbusters. And, you know, I'm not 100% on the movie, but it was harmless. You know what I mean? So I just don't understand why people got so adamant about something like Ghostbusters. Like, you're so. You had that thing, that three kind of tiered thing where you had cars, which is very sweet nostalgia, and Superman Returns, which is taking it, and just you're spinning emptiness out of nostalgia, really. And then nostalgia could actually be dangerous. Like, you can't take these things that you're so attached to and weaponize them against other people. That just doesn't make sense. And so when John and I thought about doing a podcast, we just thought, okay, well, if we're going to do this nostalgic kind of viewpoint, let's just go through movies that initially were, like, movies that we grew up on as kids and that we haven't watched. Like, so my first episode that I picked was the Jazz Singer with Neil diamond and Johnny's interesting. And Johnny's was Clash of the Titans from 1980.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: I love Clash of the Titans. Oh, my gosh.
[00:06:24] Speaker C: So that's. That's the kind of movies that we looked at, like, movies that we hadn't seen in a while. And I was really resistant. Like, my rule was, I don't want to do Star Wars. Everybody said everything they could possibly say about Star Wars. I don't want to do it again. And then it got to the point where we had guests that we couldn't, like, they want to do Princess Bride and Back to the Future movies that are my favorites. And talking about those, I realized I could be just as enthusiastic, if not more enthusiastic about movies that I loved, as opposed to movies that I don't really have any connection to and was trying to find a connection. So ever since then, we've done more and more kind of. We did a 90s season where we concentrated on movies that we cut our teeth on, Johnny and I, and even episode 100, we did end up doing Star wars because it was just the kind of, like a celebration, but we did it from the point of view of, like, the special editions and how your nostalgia for the older versions could alter how you look at. So we kind of spun it in a way that I thought was. Was interesting. So.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Excellent. Very cool.
So when you say whether. So when you're talking about movies, like, whether they stand the test of time or they're past their prime, like, were there any that you were very surprised either way that they still held up or that, oh, my gosh, what was I thinking with this one?
[00:07:33] Speaker C: Well, there, you know, oddly enough, I don't think negatively a lot of the time. Like, I have a hard time remembering the stuff that I'm mad at, but I do remember that movies like Popeye with Robin Williams or Transformers, the movie grew up on, those are. Those are tough because I. At a certain point, you're like, I don't know if this is a bad movie or not. I don't know if this is a good movie or not, because I just have such a good time with it and such warm memories of it that it's hard to separate those two. And, yeah, Popeye and Transformers movie, they have issues, right? And so. But it's still. At the end of the day, I was like, yeah, these are worth remembering because they still.
And I wish I could have that at the ready where I could. Oh, this one was really terrible, but I. I just can't. I think the worst movie we've ever covered on the podcast was the Jim Carrey how to how the Grinch Stole Christmas, just because it ruined my nostalgia for the cartoon.
But that was one that I knew I wasn't gonna like going into it. So that's just a little bit different. If I. If I had the time, if I wanted to, I could go through and find, like, the other movies that I was disappointed. But mostly we try to keep the conversations positive and try to spin it that way.
[00:08:36] Speaker A: Oh, you are nicer than me. I think we. Sybil and I once had an episode where we, like, eviscerated the movie. Imagine me and you. But I have got a nostalgic choice on my double features today, though, so that'll be cool. Like, that kind of fits what you're talking about, where it's, like, you can't tell if it's actually good, but it's so nostalgic for you that you just can't help it. And, Sophia, maybe you can ask about the other Podcast because it is over my head.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: Back to Bluey.
Oh, well, okay. I mean, so my child is maybe quote unquote, too old to watch Bluey, but she loves it. And I worked with pre K kids, so I totally had to keep up with the. No, you know, what was what? What's hot with the 4 year olds? And Bluey is it. Everybody loves Bluey. I love Bluey. And I love that you're doing this podcast from a dad's perspective, because one of my friends who has like six.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Kids, he's like, I can't watch the Bluey man. It makes me cry every time.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: It's so sweet.
[00:09:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: My daughter's like, I just want us to be like, bluey, let's be uppie. And we're like, sure, honey, we can do that.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:49] Speaker C: Well, we call it an aspirational show because, yeah, when you watch Chili and Bandit and all the games that they play with their kids, it's exhausting. You're like, there's no way I could do that. Right. But I don't. The thing that we hit on, again, that's that word aspirational, is just like, you. All you can do is you can hope to be this good. They're just giving you an example of, like, the best parent that a parent could be. And they do it in a way, again, from the point of view of anthropomorphic cartoon dogs where kids can watch it and feel entertained and adults can watch it and have themes and feel like, oh, this is actually speaking to me. Because I recognize, even though they're dogs, I recognize all these things happening. And so, yeah, Rob and I, we just. We turn every seven minute episode into, like a 40 minute conversation because there's just so much to pull and so much joy and so much to learn and so much to, again, aspire to or compare to. But I think that's the thing. Like, yeah, it makes you cry. And I think that's good because it helps you get more in touch with your feelings, whatever, and get closer to your kids. But the whole point of our podcast, though, is don't be the person that looks at the show and goes, I hate this because it makes me feel bad. It's like, don't do that. It's like all it's doing is it's helping you realize, I can be a better parent. What can I do?
And so that's just been the crux of every one of our conversations. We love it.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: And let's not forget, they're playing for seven minutes Like, I think that's what.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: I should aspire to be.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: Like, yep, you got seven minutes of me, kid.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: Good job.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Go to your room. Go.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Let me do this or something.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: But my kid's a little older, so she doesn't, you know, always want me around anyway, so.
[00:11:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that's coming with our kids.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: All right, so we usually ask a guest who comes on the show for the first time. What are some of your favorite rom coms?
[00:11:30] Speaker C: My favorite rom com of all time is Shop around the Corner.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: Okay, interesting.
[00:11:35] Speaker C: The Lubitsch movie. And I think, Jen, you and I got in some arguments with some people online recently about what constitutes a rom com. I just think that Shop around the Corner is like, as a movie, the store that they all work in, I can smell it and I can hear the noises, and I know the people in there, and so I've never experienced it. Experience the movie that was that, like, engrossing and in depth and immersive, and so I just love that. But also that timeless story of, you know, how they, you know, they meet over mail and things like that, and they argue at first and they realize how to deal with each other. I just think that's. That's wonderful if you were to also look at, like, kids. Girl Friday, I think, is.
I'm weird because I mostly look at older movies as, like, the examples.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: And so, no, that's not weird. I love it. I love it.
[00:12:20] Speaker C: Yeah. His Girl Friday's up there. Philadelphia Story's up there. When Harry Met Sally is probably the most recent rom com that I have in my top five. But, yeah, those are.
You know, there's. There's an audience form, and it's. It's really sad these days that we're not finding, like, the ticket to paradise, whatever, with George Clooney and Julia Roberts. Not a great movie. Nothing you haven't seen before. But I just got a thrill out of watching two attractive stars flirt with each other on a big screen. You know what I mean? I think that rom coms are a dying breed in theaters. They go straight to streaming, but you miss a lot of stuff when they.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: Go straight to stream.
I don't think they'll ever completely die. Let's hope not. But, yeah, there's definitely fewer of them going to the theaters these days. But I love that you brought in all these older movies. That's fantastic.
The Lubitsch Design for Living is one of my favorites these days. So. Yeah. Yay, Lubitsch.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: Wonderful director. Yeah.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: And then I think we're probably going to end up talking a little bit about favorite sports movies during the course of the episode. So instead I wanted to kind of present this interesting quote that, that I read from writer, director Ron Sheldon, who did Bull Durham that we'll be discussing today.
He wrote in his book about making the making of Bull Durham. Quote, the biggest mistake a sports movie can make is to have too much sports in it. And I want to know, do you agree or disagree with that statement?
[00:13:39] Speaker B: I wonder what he's referring to.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: Well, you know, like, I think what he's saying is that if you think about like, okay, think about Bull Durham that we're discussing today.
There's not an actual lot of baseball play in this movie. You're not like spending a lot of the time watching like the innings go by.
Whereas some sports movies, you will see a lot more sports play gameplay. One example that I think is counter to what he's saying is actually the movie Lagon, which people, a lot of people wouldn't think of that as a sports movie anyway. But it's this Bollywood epic about a cricket game that's played in, in order for these like Indian, like peasants to like try to not have to pay a land tax. Played against British colonial. The British colonial government. But the thing with that movie is it's a really long movie and it seeds in so much conflict and so much character before the game starts that once the game starts, every play is just of utter importance. And the stakes they're playing for mean so much that you are engrossed in this cricket match. I don't even understand cricket, but I still like that game anyway. So I think that's an exception. But in general, I think I would agree with Ron Shelton quite a bit that like what you want to see in a sports movie isn't necessarily watching a sports game. You want to see the way sports you want to see. You want character building moments, you want the sports to the extent that it builds character or plot, but you don't want it to become just watching a game. That's. I agree with Ron Shelton. How about, what do you think about that upon reflection?
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:10] Speaker C: Sports is life, right?
Life is sports.
And I think there's a difference between watching a game which can be fun. Right. But also there's the dramas of who's playing and what they're up against and their personal kind of conflicts that they're going through. That's what movies are, right? It's about the drama. Yeah, there's drama in sports, but you also want to see what their Lives are like off the field. I kind of look at it the same thing as film criticism. Like we can look at everybody's opinions, but it doesn't matter whether we agree. I just want to know where you're coming from and how you arrived at that destination. Right. That's all I care about. So we can kind of understand each other. It's the same thing with sports. It's like you want to see what they're like off the field, if there's a field that you're playing on, and then how they apply how they live their life to their, their game, if that makes any sense. I. So I understand what he's saying from that point of view.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Sure, sure.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Yes, I can. That makes sense. And they even talk about how Bull Durham doesn't have that big like grand game that they're trying to win at the end and they did that on purpose.
But I enjoy, like, I enjoy what, you know, the montage of training. I get a kick out of those, you know, so you need some.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: I think that's true. And I think the big game can be good as long as there's like been build up to it and you know what the stakes are. And maybe the stakes are more than just this sports game. So yeah, I'm of two minds about it, I guess. Oh well, we didn't, we didn't make a definitive statement. Oh well, I guess we'll live.
Yep.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: Before we get started today, a few notes first. As usual, the beginning of the episode will have a spoiler free section, but listen out for our spoiler warning when it comes. If you haven't watched the movie yet.
[00:16:59] Speaker A: We'D also like to remind you that you can follow the podcast on social media.
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[00:17:17] Speaker B: And as always, you can find the
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[00:17:33] Speaker A: And you can also now listen to our episodes on our YouTube channel at every rom com podcast. Please Visit us on YouTube today and hit the subscribe button.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: And finally, if you'd like to help support the show financially, you can visit our Buy me a coffee
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[00:17:56] Speaker A: And now let's get into the episode by listening to the trailer for Bull Durham.
[00:18:02] Speaker D: What do you believe in, then?
[00:18:04] Speaker E: Well, I believe in the small of a woman's back. The hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch. And I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last for three days.
[00:18:14] Speaker D: Come on.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: Who are you?
[00:18:18] Speaker E: I'm the player to be named later.
[00:18:20] Speaker C: I love winning, man.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: You hear what I'm saying?
[00:18:24] Speaker C: It's, like, better than losing.
[00:18:26] Speaker D: These are the ground rules. I hook up with one guy a season. Usually takes me a couple weeks to pick the guy. Kind of my own spring training.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: It's cold in here.
[00:18:39] Speaker D: You think Dwight Gooden leaves his socks.
[00:18:41] Speaker E: On no matter what?
[00:18:45] Speaker C: Sucker teed off a net like he knew I was going to throw fastball.
[00:18:48] Speaker E: He did know. I told him.
[00:18:54] Speaker D: Honey, I want you to wear these when you're pitching on the road. They're garters.
[00:18:58] Speaker E: Rose goes in the front. Big guy.
[00:19:03] Speaker D: Love is a lot like baseball. It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: No problem. No problem. No problem.
[00:19:10] Speaker C: Kevin Costner.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: Get a hit. Crash.
[00:19:12] Speaker E: Shut up.
[00:19:13] Speaker D: Susan Saran. Have you ever been tied up in bed?
[00:19:16] Speaker C: Tim Robbins.
[00:19:18] Speaker E: I'm too old for this.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Bull Durham.
Oh, my God. That trailer makes the movie seem so cheesy.
[00:19:31] Speaker C: So 80s.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: It makes it sound like some kind of, like, early 80s sex comedy or something, you know? Which in some ways it is, but. But, like, not. It's much more intellectual than this trailer implies.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: That's funny.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Yeah. No, that. That. I was having a hard time not laughing during the trailer, I have to tell you.
All right, well, Bull Durham was released June 15, 1988. It was written and directed by Ron Shelton, and it stars Kevin Costner, Susan Sarandon, and Tim Robbins.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: So the basic premise of the film starts with Annie Savoy.
She is a baseball groupie or mentor, loyal to the local minor league team, the Durham Bulls.
Every year, Annie chooses a player to sleep with, and every year, that player.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: Has a great year.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: This year, she's choosing between Ebby Calvin, Nuke Lelouch, a young pitcher with a great but uncontrollable arm, and Lawrence Crash Davis, a veteran catcher who's nearing the home run record for the minor leagues and who's been assigned to mature Nuke as a player.
Crash leaves Annie to date Nuke out of pride. But now both he and Annie are working to improve Nuke as a player, while also wondering whether they shouldn't have gotten together romantically after all.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: So there are a lot of things to learn about this movie. But I will confess that the vast majority of the interesting facts section on the podcast today come from one source, which is a book about the making of the movie written by writer and director Ron Shelton. It's called the Church of Baseball the Making of Bull Durham, and it was released in 2022. And has anyone else read this book?
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Didn't.
[00:21:19] Speaker C: No.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Didn't realize he wrote it.
[00:21:20] Speaker C: No, I don't even know it existed.
That's fascinating.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a fantastic read.
I really recommend this book if you're a fan of this film. But also, he has a lot of, like, screenwriting tips that he kind of puts into the book as well, because he's talking you through his writing process for the movie and then the production process. So, yeah, I took a lot of notes that aren't even relevant to this episode. I just took notes about writing as well, so I'll say that. Great source. Great.
The.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: I got the DVD at the library, and his commentary is also very good for writing and directing and production.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Oh, you got one with commentary. Mine didn't have commentary, so that's good. Hopefully. Hopefully you can fill in things I missed if I'm.
[00:22:06] Speaker C: His is good. But you have Costner and Robbins doing a commentary too.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:22:10] Speaker C: And it gets really awkward during the love scene at the end.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: It gets a little awkward, but I feel like they spend most of the time just giggling together anyway. And I'm like, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: All right. Well, if you guys have tidbits from those commentaries, please put them in when. When they apply, because I. My. For some reason, I got a DVD that didn't have commentary, and I was very sad. So. Yep. Oh, well.
So let's see. So writer and director Ron Shelton's script for Bull Durham was based off of his experiences playing minor League baseball from 1967 to 1971. So you have a real ball player writing the movie, which I think you can see throughout the film.
[00:22:52] Speaker C: Yeah, write what you know.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: Yeah, he did it. Yeah.
And Shelton also took advice from his wife, who recommended that he write a baseball story from a woman's point of view. So hence you have Annie's character narrating the film.
Shelton scouted Durham, North Carolina, as a setting before writing the script. And while he was writing, he hung out at minor league games to update his knowledge of the culture, but he said it was pretty much the same as when he was playing.
And Kevin Costner's character, Lawrence Crash Davis, was named after a player Shelton found in a Carolina league record book who had hit 50 doubles in 1948, near the beginning of filming the actual player, who he took the name from, found Shelton and spoke to him about the movie. Fortunately, he was okay with his name being used. He did ask Ron Shelton, do I get the girl? Which is kind of funny.
The name Ebi Calvin Lelouch, on the other hand, came from a waiter Shelton met in Columbia, South Carolina, whose last name was actually LaRouche. But there was like, this.
I think he was like a Communist Party candidate who always ran under LaRouche for a long time in the 80s, so he changed it to Lelouch instead.
And the waiter also had the nickname Nuke. So it was like, you know, just one of those perfect finds.
[00:24:17] Speaker C: Like, he would microwave everything. Is that why?
[00:24:19] Speaker A: Who knows?
And then Annie's name was based off of, I guess, a tradition of calling baseball groupies Annie's.
So. And then a matchbook. He got the last name off a matchbook, so he's just getting names here and there.
Shelton sold his idea for the movie to producer Tom Mount and included a clause in the writing directing contract for the movie that said he couldn't be fired until after one week of shooting.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:24:49] Speaker A: According to his book, this may have come in handy at one point. So.
[00:24:52] Speaker C: Oh, geez.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Shelton wanted Kevin Costner in the movie from the beginning, but Costner actually insisted on auditioning just to make sure his baseball skills were up to snuff, which you gotta respect.
And the film still needed financing at this point, but around that time, Costner began becoming a very successful future movie star with the release of the Untouchables and no Way Out. So Costner came with Shelton to finance meetings, and his new star power probably is what got Shelton the deal with Orion Pictures. Like, this movie might not have gotten made without Kevin Costner, essentially.
So Susan Sarandon was initially not considered for the role because she wasn't on a list of actors approved by the production companies in town. But Shelton and Costner were both sold on her early on. And Sarandon was so interested in the role that she flew from Italy, where she was living at the time, to LA and went to the studio and charmed the executives in person.
So she really wanted that role.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: I think that's pretty legend. Shelton talks about it, Costner talks about it all in the commentaries, and I watched a couple old interviews with her, and she. She talks about several times how she, like, humiliated herself, you know, flying there on her own dime and then getting hold of this, like, skimpy, slinky dress or whatever. And Charming everybody. And it was like, wow. Yes, she clearly wanted it.
[00:26:23] Speaker C: And I think nobody knew her as a sexpot either. So the role kind of required some of that. So from what I hear. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry to hear. Eastwick, right? Very, very sexy movie. Right? That's very, like, funny. Yeah, yeah. And so I think what happened was they sent her into, I think, Mike Medavoy or the studio hair or whatever in like, a slinky kind of dress and had her, like, bend over his. His desk or something.
And the way that she describes it, she's like, I just knew what I had to do. And I'm like, well, that's gr.
Times have sure changed, I hope.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
So Tim Robbins then was also an actor who the studio wasn't too sure about. In fact, there was an executive at the studio who was continuously advocating for Anthony Michael hall to be cast in the role of Nuke.
And this continued after filming had started. And I just cannot, cannot imagine Anthony Michael hall in that all at all.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: Like, kind of yuck and gross.
[00:27:22] Speaker A: It's just like.
I mean, no offense, kid. I know.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: No offense, but he would have actually.
[00:27:29] Speaker A: Looked more like a young player starting out, I'll give him that. But maybe.
[00:27:33] Speaker C: But I would admit it's one of the supporting players, I think.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, anyway, fortunately, Tim Robbins was cast, and of course, he and Susan Sarandon met and fell in love on set. So they didn't just have great chemistry in the movie, they had great chemistry in life.
There were two weeks of rehearsal in Durham before shooting began, and Durham Bulls manager Grady Little ran a baseball camp for the actors. He also recruited minor league players to fill out the cast.
And one notable inclusion of a real minor league figure. Shelton included a minor league celebrity in his movie, Max Patkin, who is known as the clown prince of baseball. And we see him, like, introduced as himself in the movie. Patkin spent 40 years in the minor leagues doing pre game clown routines.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: Bull Durham had a budget of $9 million and it grossed over $50 million. So not too shabby. And writer and Ron Shelton wrote in his book that famous Hollywood writer director Billy Wilder called him over when he was eating in a restaurant and told him, great picture, kid. Wow.
If you know your movie history, Billy Wilder giving you a blessing is pretty great.
[00:28:48] Speaker C: I think even Stanley Donen was there at the. At the same place. So he met them at the same time.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:28:54] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: That's a good seal of smooth.
And Shelton wrote that Bull Durham had effects beyond the World of movies. He said, quote, the movie was credited with sparking a renaissance of the minor leagues. And for many years attendance rose, new ballparks were built, and towns and cities across the country embraced team nicknames indigenous to the region.
Shelton added, however, in his 2022 book, that as of the publication of the book, the major league. Major League Baseball had been cutting back their investment in the minor leagues and eliminating franchises. So lately, not quite as much.
But Bull Durham itself remains one of the most highly acclaimed sports movies of all time. In 2003, Sports Illustrated listed it as the best sports movie of all time, and the American Film Institute listed it as the fifth greatest American sports movie of all time.
[00:29:46] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: So, yeah. So we're going to talk about our general opinion now. Do you agree with Sports Illustrated and the American Film Institute? Do you regard this as one of the best of all time? What's your experience with this movie and how has it changed over time?
[00:30:00] Speaker B: This was my first viewing of this film.
[00:30:02] Speaker A: No way.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: Way. That was the part why I wanted to do it. I'm like, I've never seen it. I mean, I've, you know, I feel like I've seen that cover with, you know, Costner and Sarandon on the car, whatever, and like. But I had never seen it. So upon my first viewing, I was like, it's good, but it really. I'm like, okay, what's the big deal? Well, you find out later. The, the big deal is like, it was the first of its kind, you know, was really giving you life from the player's point of view. And, you know, he really wanted you to see the dugout and the locker room and what do they talk about on the mound up there? You know, what are they. What's going on? And so, and especially from this minor league life and what the life was like. So I'm like, well, that's awesome. And that it, you know, just all the lore behind it that how he had to fight for Tim Robbins and Sarandon and all that. So that made it all the better, knowing all of that.
[00:31:07] Speaker C: For me, this is a movie that I remember. I didn't see it in the theater because I would have been way too young. I probably would have been like 11 when it came. I do remember the trailer they used to have, the E. Channel or whatever that used to have a half hour program where they coming attractions where they played trailers. And I just fell in love with. So I remember taping a lot of the trailers and Bull Durham was one of them.
Kevin Costner's the star of my favorite movie, which we'll probably talk about a little bit later when we're talking about our double features. But the way that I think that's what attracted me to this is just having him in another baseball movie. And so as soon as I was able, I was able to, I think during the 90s, I rented it. And it's one of those movies where, well, as a young kid, you're not quite prepared for the level of sex that's in it. And then watching it again, I wasn't ready for the level of sex that was in it. Because every movie has become so chaste and kind of like turned away from that. Unless you're kind of like hitman or something like that, or like the substance, which is kind of a gross out move, but not the same. You know what I mean? It's so, it's not the, it's not like the joy of sexuality anything. Like it was just so. It's just funny, like bookending my first viewing with my most recent viewing and the sex kind of catch me off guard. But I think what that does is it adds to the world that we're living in at the time. I literally, when I'm with the players and, you know, you're in the dugout, you're in the back and you're, you're getting the pep talks. I can feel the heat, I can feel this. I can smell the sweat. I can smell like the, you know, there's fungus on, on nukes, like his flip flops. Right. So I think again, it's very immersive and it kind of pulls you in there. And I think to the, the way that, because I'm not a, I'm not a big sports person, I'm very uncoordinated, but baseball was the sport that I could play. Or more accurately was, it was the part that I could play and not care what I look like. I just love playing it to the point where I thought it was pretty good. I could hit, I could catch, I could run, you know, I could man first base. And so the thoughts that go through your head, the way that crashes at bat one time, all the stuff that's going through his head and he's got to get himself out of the box and give himself a timeout. That's very authentic. The way that, you know, things get into your head and you lose sight, you forget that you're playing a game, all that. Just the way that they talk about baseball, the way that Annie talks about is kind of a Religion, you have all of these, like, traditions and these little rituals that you stick to, which is very akin. Like you said, Sophia, like this is the first real movie to really capture that, but it's repeated. Like League of the Roan does a lot of that stuff. And a lot of the movies that came after it kind of repeat this. I don't want to say that they owe everything to Bull Durham, but it's just a very authentic. And there's nothing like. And we'll get to it, obviously, but that part where they're all at the mound and they're just all dealing with their own shit, you know, in that conversation, that's just what you go through as you're playing. It's just it. But like, we also talked about, it's not all on the field. You bring a lot of that to your regular world and you bring a lot of your regular world to the. To the. And so it's very rich in the way it just captures that feel of what it's like to play baseball or be on a team. And so that's what's always stuck with me. And it's always the thing that I love the most about the movie whenever I go back and revisit it.
[00:34:05] Speaker A: And would you say you've revisited it a lot of times over the years or had it been quite a long time?
[00:34:11] Speaker C: It's one of those. I think maybe I've seen it maybe a dozen times, so I'm catching it maybe every two or three years. And every time again, it's like a nostalgia hit. You're like, oh, this is. This is like slipping into a warm bath. Like, I love these characters. I love the way that they talk. I love the music. So, yeah, it's just, it's a movie that's. It's not my favorite by any means, but it's one of those movies that I can just always slip back into. Remember why I liked it so much in the first place.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: Well, I grew up in a baseball household. My dad played college baseball. My dad loved baseball. My dad was always trying to get us to play baseball. And usually our family movie that we went to, like, we'd go to like at least one movie in a theater each year as a family was a baseball related movie. We may have even seen this in the theater together because my parents were not at all strict about like, you know, R rated movies or anything. Like, I was watching movies with like our readings when I was five and it's like, wasn't a thing. We may, we may have we may not. We definitely had it on VHS as soon as it was available. And I definitely saw it when I was like 11 or 12 or something like that.
And it wasn't like my favorite. Like, I'll say that at the time, it wasn't my favorite. And even when I got into my Kevin Costner phase, which I'll talk about in a minute. Oh, yeah, it wasn't one of my favorite Kevin Costner movies.
But now when I've looked at it for the podcast and I've watched it a couple times and I've kind of looked through, like, the important scenes, so I clip different things from YouTube to put in the episode. I found myself wanting to clip, like, half the scenes in the damn movie.
And I was like, oh, shit, this writing is just good.
Like, this acting is just good. These scenes are just funny.
And so when I was looking at it piece by piece and really seeing what was in the movie, I'm like, oh, this is much better movie than I kind of realized. And I think maybe the reason it doesn't connect with me as, like, one of my favorite movies is that the way that people are behaving in the movie seems at times like, not the baseball part, the baseball part feels realistic, but the relationship part at times feels a little silly. Like, why is this woman still doing this thing where she sleeps with a different player every year and then she has to be faithful to that player? It feels a lot like a device. You know what I mean?
[00:36:20] Speaker C: Right.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: And also, like, unlike a lot of rom coms where you feel this kind of longing and ache and you wonder, are they going to get together? There's, like, never a point in the movie where I'm really worried that Crash and Annie aren't going to eventually get together. I don't know. It doesn't have that yearning and rom coms when the things I really like is the yearning. So. And also, finally, as much as it's got a quote unquote woman's point of view, it kind of also doesn't. Like, I don't think it even passes the Bechdel test once. It definitely doesn't pass it twice, which is my new kind of low bar. So. Okay, okay. But. But I have to. I have to appreciate the craft. And I do think as a baseball movie, it does something very interesting that I like. So my opinion has improved, but it isn't one of the ones that's closest to my heart either. At the same time, do you ladies.
[00:37:13] Speaker C: Think that Annie has agency in this? Do they I. Maybe because maybe I'm just speaking as a man, you know what I mean? But I don't feel like the movie ever talks down to her or makes her feel. Even the Millie character, like when. When Skip goes in and finds, you know, Nuke, he's not Nuke yet, but finds them in the locker room. Right. He's like kind of in. So. And then he finds out that it's Millie's like, oh, well, I didn't know it was you. Just get out. You can do whatever you want. Just get out of my locker room. Right. Get out of my clubhouse. So I was just wondering. And again, that's Annie's entire arc. She just beds these. She picks one player, but that's her choice. Nobody's making her do that. But am I misspeaking? I mean, what do you two think of that?
[00:37:51] Speaker A: I mean, I don't feel it's at all misogynistic. I think she's a strong character and an interesting character. I just. But it just, it doesn't feel necessarily realistic to me.
And maybe it would be different. Apparently there was a scene that was cut out that explained more about her backstory. Maybe that would have helped me understand, fill that in a little more. But yeah, she reads more to me as like maybe someone in her 30s or late 20s. You know what I mean?
[00:38:14] Speaker C: Interesting. Yeah.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:15] Speaker C: And as far as the romance goes, it's. I, I agree with you. It's nothing that I just feel like you never feel like they're not going to get together because they're the most mature and kind of world weary characters, so you know that they're gonna maybe end up together or they're kind of. Even though they're not the same age. What were they separated for like 12 years or something like that?
[00:38:30] Speaker A: But yeah, I think the characters might be about. Supposed to be the same age. Right. The actors weren't. Yeah. They're the only two people that read in that town, apparently, so.
[00:38:39] Speaker B: Right, right, exactly.
I was thinking about that too. I'm like, ooh, are we gonna call this. This a feminist film? Is this feminist? And. And to some degree.
Yeah. Like I. Again, I think she does have agency. I think she is making her and the Millie character as well, you know.
[00:38:56] Speaker C: Right. But they don't look down on her.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:58] Speaker B: Nobody. Nobody's. Yeah.
[00:39:01] Speaker C: Well, in that way, as far as 80s comedies go, I think it's. It's kind of. And yeah, it's toward the end of the decade, but it was really kind of bracing. What, like you, you put on an 80s comedy, you start to cringe. Like, how are they going to treat the women characters? What's going to happen in this? But this one, I don't. Yeah, it's a little bit dated and maybe it's more of a character thing, but I never felt like icky watching it where a lot of 80s movies, I feel really gross. And again, I don't know if this is because it started becoming more progressive toward the end of the decade, but there are definitely a lot of really gross, misogynistic, ugly, you know, movies made during that time. And I'm just glad that, that, that's never been one of those for me. This has never been one of those for me.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: Yeah, we. Well, we cover a lot of the other good ones on our podcast too, so I'll just put that in a lot of the other ones that don't make you feel icky, but. Yeah, yeah, I don't, I certainly don't. I don't necessarily think it's feminist, but it's definitely not anti feminist either, so. Yeah, and Susan Sarandon just lends a ton of presence to whatever character she plays, so I think that really helps.
[00:39:59] Speaker C: Yes, she does.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: All right, so let' swhy don't we get into the cast and crew now? And first I'm going to talk about Kevin Costner. And Sophia already knows this, but Kevin Costner was like my movie star boyfriend when I was like 13 and 14 years old, maybe 15 years old, I was obsessed with Kevin Costner. Starting with Dances With Wolves. It carried over into Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. And so there's this, like, weird. I was so obsessed with Kevin Costner when I was a young teenager that when I watch him in movies to this day, it sort of weirdly feels like I'm watching an ex boyfriend that I have sort of feelings for.
I'm not even kidding. It's really weird.
[00:40:39] Speaker B: He's so good looking. I mean, they talk about like the, you know, the new character being this hot young kid or whatever, but every time they put the camera on Kevin Costner, I'm like, look at that fine man. Like, damn, he's so attractive. What a star.
[00:40:54] Speaker C: Yeah, so I can see what you see in him. But. But I think this movie, like, watching it again last night, I'm like, yeah, this really, I think over any movie, this really nails his sex appeal. And what makes him. He has a smile and a wink that he gives. You know, the line we heard in the trailer, and it's like, oh, even I'm Watching, going, yeah, he's. Yeah, I'm melting a little bit. You know what I mean? Because he's so charming and charismatic when he's in the right part. And I think this is one of his.
I agree with you. It's not one of my. Actually, you know what I'm going to say it is. It is one of my favorites. I think he's just so laid back and he's. He's such a character and there's never a moment where I think, oh, you're acting.
I just think he's got great appeal in this.
[00:41:30] Speaker A: The funny thing is I was like more of a period piece Kevin Costner fangirl. So I was like, I want him in period clothes. So I don't know. This one never did it for me. But you guys are right, he is objectively attractive in this movie. Yeah.
[00:41:44] Speaker B: I mean, Dances with Wolves was great, but one that I watched repeatedly was Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves. Yeah, like a lot.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: Everything I do, I do it for you, baby.
All right, well, let's get. We'll go through his little. We'll go through how he got to be the man he was. So he was born January 18, 1955 in Linwood, California. He went to California State University in Fullerton. And originally he was studying marketing, but then he became interested in acting during College. His first IMDb credit is for a movie called Malibu Hot Summer, which also has the alternate title Sizzle beach usa. I have to admit I have not yet watched that fine film, but perhaps he did a few parts in similar films or smaller parts in bigger films, as well as a sort of famous series of cut scenes in the Big Chill before he received his first two more well known parts in Fandango and Silverado in 1985.
[00:42:47] Speaker C: He's so fun in Silverado. He's so fun in that one.
[00:42:49] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I have yet to see that one, actually.
[00:42:52] Speaker C: Oh, you would. It's Silverado is a movie that I call like your. Your intro to Westerns. If you're gonna watch a Western, watch that one. It basically nails everything that it feels modern, but it's also very traditional and classical. Yeah. And once Kevin Costner shows up, it's like the screen lights up. It's. And. But the screen is already lit. I don't know if that. It's gonna make more sense when you're watching. You've got Kevin Klein and Scott Glenn and then Kevin Costner shows up. You're like, yeah, yeah, Definitely. Recommend.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: Nice.
1987 ended up being Costner's real breakout year, though, when he appeared in the Untouchables and no Way Out. And of course, this is the same period, as we mentioned, when he was about to make Bull Durham and then after Bull Durham in 1988, Costner starred in one of the other most beloved baseball films of all time, Field of Dreams in 1989. 1990, however, might have been the most important year of his career as he co, produced, directed and starred in Dances With Wolves, which was nominated for 12 Academy Awards and won seven, including best picture and Best Director. For Costner, he was also nominated for Best Actor, and I think there were probably a lot of people who were not happy at that year's Oscars, but I was like sitting in my living room applauding every time Dances With Wolves won something like a huge dork.
Okay, let's see. Costner worked steadily throughout the 90s, starring in movies including Robin, Prince of Thieves, JFK, The Bodyguard, Wyatt Earp, Waterworld, and Message in a Bottle. He also made another sports movie, Ting cup with ron Shelton in 1996 and another baseball movie for Love of the game in 1999.
And in 1997, he returned to directing and also starred in the post apocalyptic story the Postman, which I kind of think of as like a double feature with Waterworld, but maybe the slightly better.
[00:44:47] Speaker C: One that makes sense. Yep, I know what you're talking about.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: His work in the 2000s was overall not quite as successful as his 90s work, but he did appear in movies including 13 Days, 3000 Miles to Graceland, the Upside of Anger, Rumor has it and Mr. Brooks. He also directed and starred in the Western open range in 2003 and then in the 2000s. His career picked up again.
Some of his significant movies in the 2010s included the company Men, man of Steel, Jack Ryan, Shadow recruit, Draft Day, McFarland USA, Hidden Figures, and Molly's Game.
And he also began making a big impression with TV series in the 2010s. He did Hatfields and McCoys, a miniseries in 2012, for which he won an Emmy. And then of course, everybody's parents watch this. Or grandparents, depending on how old you are. Yellowstone, which started in 2018, which he also produces in the 2000s. He has continued to work on Yellowstone. He also produced, directed, co, wrote and starred in the movies Horizon and American Saga, Chapter One and Chapter Two. And I have to admit, I tried watching Horizon Chapter One and I could not get into it. I'm sorry, ex boyfriend Kevin Costner.
[00:46:07] Speaker C: It plays more like a miniseries Like a TV series than it does a movie.
[00:46:10] Speaker A: Yeah, Maybe I was going about it wrong. I don't know.
[00:46:13] Speaker C: Right.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: So he is also in production now on Chapter three of Horizon and American Saga. So he's still going on that.
And then. I did not know this before researching this episode. In addition to his film and television work, he also has a country rock band called Kevin Costner and Modern west, which has released several albums. And he sings and he plays guitar. And. I mean, I'm not really into necessarily the particular kind of music he's playing, but he didn't sound bad. I saw a clip from that.
And he has been married and divorced twice and has five children. So if anyone wants to say anything else about Kevin Costner, you may say it now.
[00:46:51] Speaker C: Well, we might say it during the episode itself. I think Costner is not. I don't think he's a great actor. There are definitely times in certain movies, like Robin Hood, like, he's great as a presence, but, yeah, he can't do an English accent.
But I think there's nothing wrong with that. Like, I don't know if you could say Cary Grant could act, you know, but he was a definite Humphrey Bogart. I don't know if he could act, but they definitely had a presence sometimes.
[00:47:15] Speaker A: Bogart could act.
[00:47:16] Speaker C: John Wayne definitely probably couldn't act. You know, it's that kind of thing where you don't really go to see them as actors. You go to see them as a presence. And so Costner's like that. But when he's in a movie like this, I think he's perfect for romantic comedy because he doesn't. There's not a lot of weight to anything he's saying. You know what I mean? He's not trying to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders or trying to prove himself. He's just trying to be a charming guy. And that's. I think that's where he excels.
[00:47:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, like, probably I have no.
I'm not able to be objective about things like Dances With Wolves, so I'm not gonna even try to go into that. I do think he did a good job in jfk. I think that might be one of the moments I've seen him where I would call him an actor. But, yeah, I think it's. He's. He is, in some ways, more of a presence or a performer. I would agree.
[00:48:01] Speaker C: Right.
[00:48:02] Speaker A: All right, are we ready for Susan Sarandon?
[00:48:05] Speaker B: Let's do it. Ms. Susan. The Susan Sarandon. I really feel like that's how she.
[00:48:11] Speaker A: Needs to be introduced.
[00:48:12] Speaker B: She's talk about a presence.
[00:48:14] Speaker C: It's interesting how Costner kept calling her sue during the conversation.
[00:48:17] Speaker B: Sue. I know, it's really cute. He kept calling her sue and then he kept calling Tim Robbins Timmy, Timbo or Timmy. It was so, yeah, Ron Sheldon kept calling him Ronnie. I'm like, oh my God.
[00:48:30] Speaker A: Clearly I need to get the DVD with the commentary somehow so I can hear all this.
[00:48:34] Speaker B: And there was like a making of and all kinds of great features.
[00:48:39] Speaker C: The Criterion disc is. It's really good.
[00:48:40] Speaker A: So.
[00:48:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: Yes, that's what it was, the Criterion disc.
[00:48:43] Speaker A: Okay, okay, okay.
[00:48:46] Speaker B: So Susan Sarandon was born in Jackson Heights, Queens, New York City on October 4, 1946, and she grew up in New Jersey.
She attended Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C. where she received a BA in Drama.
Her first IMDb credit is in 1970 for a film called Jo the Early 70s. She mostly appears in TV, particularly in the soap opera A World Apart.
Her career really took off in 1975 when she appeared in the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
[00:49:25] Speaker A: Oh, now I want to see. Now I want to see a version of Rocky Horror Picture show where Kevin Costner plays Brad.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that'd be fun.
The Mid to late 70s consisted of all of all films, most notably her first collaboration with Louis Malle in 1978 in Pretty Baby.
Sarandon would work with Mal again in her first Academy Award nomination for best actress in 1980s, Atlantic City.
Other popular works in the 80s before Bull Durham included Tempest the Hunger and the Witches of Eastwick.
The 90s brought us some of her most remarkable works. She received Oscar nominations for Best Actress for Thelma and Louise, Lorenzo's Oil, the Client before finally winning best actress in 1996 for Dead Man Walking.
[00:50:19] Speaker A: And I think the only reason she probably didn't get the award for Thelma and Louise is because I believe that was the year Silence of the Jody Foster got the Islands of the Lambs. Yeah, that's competition right there, right?
[00:50:30] Speaker B: I remember watching the Oscars and her winning for Dead Man Walking as a senior in high school.
[00:50:37] Speaker C: I grad. Yeah, I graduated that year.
[00:50:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A few favorites from the 90s are Little Women in 1994. That's mine, Stepmom in 1998, the Cradle Will Rock in 1999, written and directed by her then partner, Tim Robbins. And Anywhere but here in 1999.
In the 2000s, Sarandon did voice work on Rugrats and the Simpsons and made appearances in popular TV shows like Friends, er, Malcolm in the Middle and Rescue Me.
She also appeared in films including Shall We Dance, Elizabethtown, Enchanted and the Lovely Bones.
Sarandon did not slow down in the 2010s, appearing in films including Arbitrage, Cloud Atlas, Tammy, Three Generations, the Meddler, A Bad Mom's Christmas, and Blackbird.
She also continued to work in TV, including appearances in 30 Rock, the Big C, Ray Donovan and more.
She also received Emmy and Golden Globe nominations for her portrayal as Bette Davis in feud in the 2020s. Sarandon continues to appear in movies and TV, including the movies maybe I Do and Blue Beetle and the TV show Monarchs.
Most recently, she portrayed Eleanor Roosevelt in the Six Triple Eight and in 2025 she played Gia in the movie Nonnas.
Sarandon has one movie in post production, a drama called the Accompaniest and she is in pre production on a drama called Exit Right.
In addition to acting, Sarandon has 17 production credits.
Sarandon is also famous for her activism and left wing politics and has participated in protests and activism for movements including anti war, pro choice, pro labor, pro LGBTQ and anti death penalty, and pro Palestinian, among other causes. Occasionally her activism has caused controversy, such as recently in 2020 when her agency, United Talent Agency, dropped her over remarks she made at a pro Palestinian rally in New York.
[00:52:57] Speaker A: She's all. She is not afraid. She's never afraid to speak her mind.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:01] Speaker A: And I, and I really respect that about her. She's like one of those actors who like, she's probably done about as much activism as she has done acting.
[00:53:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say that that's true. Yeah.
She was married to Chris Sarandon from 1967 to 1979.
She has a daughter, Ava Amori, who was born in 1985. From her relationship with Italian filmmaker Franco Amore. She was together with Bullderm castmate Tim Robbins from 1988 to 2009.
Together they have two sons, Jack Henry, born 1989 and Miles, born in 1992.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: Yep. Susan Sarandon, she like, you know, she has a really impressive career and one of these days I want to do a retrospective of. Of what? Of her movies, I think and just watch them all.
[00:53:49] Speaker B: She has so many credits, I think like 175 on IMDb and when I was.
[00:53:54] Speaker A: I'm not gonna watch all her TV credits, I'll tell you that much.
[00:53:57] Speaker B: But like voice work and like animation and you know. Yeah, just tons of stuff.
[00:54:05] Speaker A: All right, so other important cast and crew in the movie are Tim Robbins, who plays Ebby Calvin, Nuke La Luc, Trey Wilson who plays the team manager and sadly he died shortly after the film's release.
Robert Wool, who plays Larry, the assistant coach and costume designer. I'm shouting out the costume designer because I like the costumes in this movie. Costume designer Louise Frogley.
All right.
[00:54:31] Speaker C: Annie wears some great, some great dresses.
[00:54:33] Speaker B: He's got some great stuff. Yep.
[00:54:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I'm obsessed.
Some of the best costume designing I've seen for just like, like a casual movie where it's not like a super period piece or something, you know?
Okay, so let's get into. We've been talking a long time, but let's finally get into the movie.
So this movie opens on black and white baseball pictures. While we hear sort of church style organ music. And Annie gives her church of baseball monologue. And I think I'm going to deliver a little bit of it because there's really no substitute for hearing it.
Apologies in advance to anybody who's from the south because I do not have a good southern accent.
[00:55:11] Speaker C: But we'll try.
[00:55:13] Speaker A: I believe in the church of baseball. I've tried all the major religions and most of the minor ones. I've worshiped Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, trees, mushrooms, and Isadora Duncan.
I know things.
For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary. And there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I heard that, I gave Jesus a chance, but it just didn't work out between us. The Lord laid too much guilt on me.
I prefer metaphysics to theology.
You see, there's no guilt in baseball and it's never boring, which makes it like sex.
There's never been a ballplayer slept with me who didn't have the best year of his career.
Making love is like hitting a baseball. You gotta relax and concentrate.
This is just like. I feel like this is why I wanted to clip everything, because Shelton writes phenomenal dialogue.
[00:56:11] Speaker C: I think naturalistic. It sounds. They call it poetry. A little bit in the making of stuff, but like, I don't know if I'd go that far. But it does sound very naturalistic. So it sounds very. Yeah, just very natural and very easy on the ears.
[00:56:24] Speaker A: And he likes, defines this character so quickly. Like, you know, that she's like very eclectic and very intelligent and that she is not ashamed about having sex. And you already kind of get her program. Like what she's. What she does.
[00:56:39] Speaker C: I think a lot of the dialogue reveals who these people are. That's an art that's lost in dialogue. A lot of dialogue these days is more like quips and things like that. But the way that she talks. It tells you everything you need to know about it before you even see her face. You know what I mean? And so that's a very important thing. I think that's a gift that you get with really great dialogue.
[00:56:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great opening. And this is why. This is why this film has risen in my estimation. Just like looking at how it's put together. Yeah.
So one thing. Shelton admitted this in his book. There are not actually 108 peds in a Catholic rosary, but this speech kind of works anyway. He has a couple of these things throughout the movie where he points out in the book that, oh, he didn't actually get that right. I mean, we didn't all have Google on tap in 1988 either. So.
[00:57:23] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:57:25] Speaker A: And let's see. The pictures in the credit sequence end up being part of Annie's baseball altar, which we then see. And we also see Annie getting ready on her way to the baseball park. And the organ music in the opening kind of seamlessly transitions into organ music at the ballpark.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: So, yeah, there you have it.
[00:57:45] Speaker A: So Shelton wrote in his book about the film that the church of Baseball, the idea for that was inspired by his evangelical upbringing. His parents got a TV when he was 12, which was used mainly or only for baseball. And when a local. Yeah, when a local boy from their. Their city left to play for the Milwaukee Braves and made it to the World Series, Shelton said his father would take them home from church early to watch the games. And then he said, quote, we started going to church less and less. The seed for the church of Baseball was planted.
[00:58:16] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:58:19] Speaker A: So we learn a little bit about Annie right away. And I just kind of want to leave it open here to talk just a little bit about Annie, the character in the movie. Without giving too many spoilers, but what is your impression of Annie overall?
[00:58:31] Speaker C: She knows who she is.
I think that's the big part of her character. She's very confident in who she is and her. Obviously, the church of baseball and the things that she teaches and people respect her. Like, I'm not sure, like, what is her job at the. At the baseball field? Is it just to. To track or.
And give them advice? What is her job exactly?
[00:58:51] Speaker A: I don't think she has an official job at the baseball field. I think she just has her professor job. She briefly mentions later.
[00:58:58] Speaker B: Like, I think, yeah, it's just her. Takes it upon herself to watch the game, watch the boys, give them tips on their form, and pick one to just, you know, she says she picks one and then they have the best season of the year. She loves the game and loves her team and is going to help out.
[00:59:19] Speaker A: Any way she can.
[00:59:21] Speaker C: I also think there's nothing quite as sexy as confidence. Like if you're confident, like people will follow you everywhere. They'll kind of worship at your feet. Right. But the thing that's great about her character and what's great about any human character is when they're vulnerable. And so yeah, you see her strong and you see her take charge, but she, I think Crash throws her for a loop. Right. Even his first monologue throws her off and she's like, oh my. Like she can't, she doesn't know.
He gives her a complication for the first time, I think. And that's a big reason why he's attracted. I, I just really think that makes her even a better character because it makes her three dimensional. She's confident. Yeah. But she's also capable of vulnerability and melting in somebody's arms. And you, you want that in any partner you have. I think, I just think it's a very. And like we talked about, you never look down. She's never a figure of fun. And again, Susan Sarandon plays her. She has like a natural sexuality, I think. So she, that, that confidence kind of exudes from her. But it's, it's a, I don't know, it's one of those things where the, the actress fits the role, if that makes any sense.
[01:00:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. She's also like, I like something about her character I like and I noticed is she's very independent and intellectual and strong. But her clothing and her environment are very feminine.
Like you see like the guys hanging out on her, like very feminine almost grandma couch and like with her little frilled pillows and she's playing the Edith Piaf with the scarves over the lamps and everything. And then her outfits in this movie are so beautiful. Like her first outfit she's wearing this like very fitted black three quarter sleeve shirt with this wide red belt and this white and black checkered 50s skirt.
Very vintage. She just looks so put together and so feminine but very strong at the same time. I love her whole look throughout the movie.
[01:01:09] Speaker B: IMDb said that apparently that costume was fashioned off of. Inspired from the Vera Ellen character in that scene in White Christmas.
[01:01:21] Speaker A: Really?
[01:01:21] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:01:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:01:23] Speaker A: I'm always a little bit dubious about IMDb just because they don't cut their trivia. But yeah, yeah, I could see it. I could see it.
[01:01:29] Speaker B: I can see it too. Yeah. I want to go with that one. I want to believe that.
[01:01:34] Speaker C: 50 skirt. Also Bill Haley in his comments, like Rock around the comments. Rock around the Clock is one of my favorite songs that I recognize. So it's nice that there's that connection. There's an old timey kind of nostalgic connection to that.
[01:01:47] Speaker A: Yeah, that song's playing as she enters the ballpark. Yeah, yeah. So we get to the ballpark, Annie goes to the ballpark, and right away we hear that Rock around the clock like you said.
And then we also see Max Patkin, the real minor league clown and he's doing his little act on the, on the ball field. And okay, I have different numbers here. For some reason I must have gotten it from two different sources. A different source said that he performed for 51 years and retired in 1995. And earlier in life, Patkin had been a minor league player but had injured his arm.
[01:02:18] Speaker B: So.
[01:02:19] Speaker A: Yeah, but, but it's great that Shelton knew enough to have this real life person portray this character.
[01:02:25] Speaker C: Yeah. Interesting.
[01:02:27] Speaker A: And we first seen. Now we are introduced to Nuke in the locker room and we see his character introduction is having his pants down, having sex with. Later we'll learn it's Millie. And on the day of what is supposed to be his professional minor league debut, what do you all think about the introduction of Ebbie Kelvin Nuke Lalouch?
[01:02:48] Speaker C: Well, bare ass is not something that I Again, it's not something I expected to see. And that's your introduction to him. It's a full kind of. And the way that he deals with Millie, you know, when Skip walks back out, they're oh, we still have time. Right? We still have like maybe a couple minutes. It's. And she's. They're just talking through there. It's nothing like over. It's just fun for them. Right. And I think that's. That's really what, what kind of takes you aback is oh, this is just a part of their world. And like I said, like these days, if you're attuned to the, the MCU movies, which are strictly made for 12 year olds. 12 year olds think sex is ugly. It's yucky. Right. They don't want to do that and it makes people uncomfortable. And so I like that it's in your face. And again, it' not so much. It's not really in your face. There's not like a scene where somebody parades around full on naked. It's just these, these really kind of quick kind of scenes to give you an idea of what's going on. But they, I don't know if I'm making sense. It lasts long enough. They make an impact, I think.
[01:03:41] Speaker A: See, I think I've been watching more of this movies with that still have sex in them because it didn't take me back at all.
I mean, I'm over here watching the Luca Guadagnino movies.
But yes, I agree with you that like casual, casual nudity, casual sex in mainstream especially.
Yeah. Mainstream type sports movies wouldn't be so, you know, prominent these days for the most part. Yeah.
[01:04:03] Speaker C: Right.
[01:04:04] Speaker B: Well, it gives you, I mean it tells you exactly who he is. It's his debut, you know, night out to pitch and he's like, he's not taking it seriously, like. Or he's like, I've got, I've got time for this in the locker room versus like, I don't know, out there, like warming up somehow, you know, like he's not, doesn't seem to be nervous. And in anticipation of this big night, he's like, whatevs, I've, I've been recruited. I'm here, so I'll just go do my thing. When it's time, call my name, you know.
[01:04:39] Speaker C: So yeah, without dialogue, it tells you exactly who.
[01:04:43] Speaker B: Exactly.
[01:04:44] Speaker C: So you have dialogue telling you who Annie is and then no dialogue at all telling you who Ebby is. And so it's just.
And it's even funnier when he goes out and you find this is his debut and you find out that he's really no good. He's got passion.
[01:04:57] Speaker A: He is. And he isn't. He isn't. He isn't. Because he has a 95 mile per hour fastball, which apparently they've changed the way that they radar the fastballs. So 95 probably is actually much higher than that in today's measurements. Yeah. Because I looked up this. It's too convoluted for me to go into, but if you're really curious, there's a whole, there are whole articles about there about how radar has changed. And so, so 95 mile per hour fastballs from the 80s are faster today. Anyway.
[01:05:24] Speaker C: He'S honing his power, right.
[01:05:27] Speaker A: So he's. He's supposed to have like the super arm though. So he's one of those guys who's like unreliable. He walked 18 and he struck out 18 in this first game.
[01:05:36] Speaker C: Right.
[01:05:37] Speaker B: I was very concerned about this like, this whole like, how can he not take his game seriously? How can he play for shit and not be like, like kicked off the team? Or how can he get Away with that. So, like, I called a family member who'd played in the minor leagues. I'm like, explain it to me. How is this happening? What do you tell me how it works? And he did it makes sense. But he probably is very good, right? And they've invested so much money in him that they wouldn't cut him. You know what I mean? They're gonna. They're gonna nurture this player that they have seen and do believe is a. Has a great arm versus, like, someone that they've brought on later. They're like, well, see ya. We don't have as much financial investment in you.
[01:06:24] Speaker A: I'm like, okay, I get it.
[01:06:25] Speaker B: Money.
[01:06:26] Speaker A: Yeah. They see the potential in him, like, if he does get honed into something great, like, he will be a star, potentially. Yeah. And so to hone him, we now meet the person who is brought in to hone him, to mentor him. We see Crash enter the office and he gives, like, that classic, like, stereotypical line, one of the only cliche lines in this movie. He comes in and says, I'm too old for this shit.
[01:06:51] Speaker C: You're after Lethal Weapon, right?
[01:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Crash, played by Kevin Costner, comes in and he's. And they tell him right away that his job here is not really to be a player as much as it is to mentor and mature Nuke and to get him, you know, in shape. And he's pretty disappointed about this. He wants to quit initially, but then he walks right back in.
And what I thought was interesting is Ron Shelton said that he thought of Crash's character as being like a hired gun in a western and kind of treated the character like that as he wrote him.
[01:07:26] Speaker C: Ah, well, it's. It's cool, too, because what I. The other thing that we'll talk about is this really captures the. The.
The relationship between the players and the relationship between the players and their managers. I like when Crash comes in and he's monologuing about how he's too old for this. But you've got Skip and you've got Larry, who are just being quiet, just letting him go on. And when Crash goes, I quit. And he walks up, they don't do anything. They just sit there quietly, still playing. They look at each other. They give Crash time to think it over. He comes back in. What time's batting practice? Wherever, tomorrow. I like that. There's already a dynamic set up in that locker room.
[01:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
[01:08:02] Speaker B: The thing about it, and I'm too old. Like their ages in real life, Tim Robbins was three years older. Than Kevin Costner. And this would make it.
Wait.
[01:08:15] Speaker A: No.
[01:08:16] Speaker B: Costner's only three years older.
[01:08:17] Speaker A: Reverse that.
[01:08:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, but they're only three years apart, which is kind of funny.
[01:08:23] Speaker C: And Sarandon is older than both of them.
[01:08:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And the studio. Some of the people in the studio were concerned about that. They were like, how is anybody going to believe that anyone would sleep with Susan Sarandon?
[01:08:35] Speaker C: I believe it.
[01:08:36] Speaker B: Everybody.
[01:08:37] Speaker A: Everybody. People still want to sleep with Susan Sarandon. Please.
[01:08:42] Speaker C: That's right.
[01:08:43] Speaker A: So, yeah, so after this game where Millie and Annie have been watching Nuke and, you know, doing his radar and so forth, we go to the bar, and Annie's hanging out with Max, sitting with the clown. And Crash buys them drinks from a different booth. And Max tells Annie that I actually saw him read a book without pictures once. And that kind of sells her.
But then he comes over and Annie asks him to dance. Crash says he doesn't dance, to which she says, how embarrassing.
But then she sees Nuke dancing, and he's dancing like a wild man over there with everybody. He comes over, tries to, like, get Annie to dance, and now all of a sudden, Crash wants to dance with her. So this is the first immature thing I think we see Crash do in this movie.
[01:09:33] Speaker C: Right?
[01:09:34] Speaker A: I don't know. I felt like. I felt like, yeah, Crash is supposed to be in the mature one, but he's being all possessive here. He's doing the whole, you know, she's spoken for a bit.
[01:09:44] Speaker C: Well, I think it might have something to do with the fact that he's brought in to kind of hone or make control. Nuke. Right. To control Ebby. And then Ebby's the one that comes over and takes charge and says, hold on now. We can't start a relationship off like that. Like, I've got to be the guy. I don't know. I just thought I saw it from that point of view.
[01:09:58] Speaker A: That's an interesting dimension to it. I didn't think of that. Yeah, well, Nuke is not having it. He basically gets Crash out back to fight. He wants to have a fight. Crash instead goads him into throwing a pitch at him.
Nuke's like, I could kill you with the pitch. And he's like, yeah, from what I heard, you couldn't hit water if you fell out of a boat.
And sure enough, Nuke's pitch fails to hit. Crash breaks a window instead of. And then Crash punches him out. And as Nuke is lying on the ground, Crash says, I'm Crash Davis. I'm your new catcher. And you just got lesson number one. Don't think it can only hurt the ball club.
[01:10:40] Speaker C: A couple of interesting things here. I like that. Well, number one, the. The fucking boat line that actually comes from LA Dodgers coach Tommy Lasorda. I think he said that about a player in Kurt Bavaqua and from the Padres in 1984. So that's a real lifeline. But the. The Criterion site, if you go to it, there's a article by a guy named Chris Wagner of the New York Times and the San Francisco Chronicle where he points out the use of the music that's played in the background. And it's really interesting.
We don't think about these needle drops or these songs as anything to do with story, but the song that. That plays when Annie sees Nuke dancing for the first time, it's George Thoroughgood's Born to Be Bad. And it's basically commenting on. On bad boys. And so you have Crash and you have Ebby, who. Who are bad boys, but Crash seems more like an introvert. He's not like the party boy, right? And this. It kind of. That's the thing when, when Nuke asks Annie to dance and they have that kind of confrontation, it brings out this bad boy Ness in Crash that I don't think he's comfortable with. And I think that's really cool. In Kasha's performance, he's like, why did I do that? Why did I shoot my mouth off? You can see that in his eyes.
But then it switches to Tina Turner's I idolize you, which plays as kind of a romantic accompaniment for that fist fight. Like when they come back in and Annie's like, well, maybe it's just some homosexual tendencies. You guys are fighting. That's literally what it is. They're going out and they're having a dance, they're fighting. It's. That's what you would see in, like, a romantic comedy, except it's with two guys this time. And so I just like that that music is kind of a. Like a commentary on what's going on.
And again, it kind of adds a new dimension to it that you don't really think of until you start looking into what the songs actually mean or what the articles are. I just thought that was a really cool choice.
[01:12:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah. And like, we were. The first movie in our sports rom com series that we covered was Challengers and then. And it was very, like, important in that movie for Luca Guadagnino that all the sides of the triangle touch. And this movie too. That follows the rule. All the parts of the triangle touch. Everybody has a relationship with everybody else in this movie.
[01:12:37] Speaker C: It's interesting because I almost picked this as one of my double feature titles because it. Challengers, in a way, feels like a semi sort of remake of this, because you do have the two players.
You do have the girl that's in the middle that tries to hone both of their talents. You have a scene where they go back to the hotel room and it's the three of them, right?
[01:12:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:12:53] Speaker C: It doesn't go as far in. In Bull Durham, but it's bad. It's kind of. Yeah, it's kind of the same thing. But then again, you have Crash and you have Nuke, who are basically dancing around each other. If they. If that was like an LGBTQ movie, they would have ended up together. Or if it was a one. Was a girl, like in His Girl Friday or whatever, they would have ended up together. I just think it was kind of. They don't. Like I said, they don't dive into it. But it's very interesting that it's there as kind of like a latent kind of background thing. And then Challengers. I thought it was fun that it really kind of delved a little more into that relationship.
[01:13:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
So, yeah. So we do now Crash. Nuke. Crash and Nuke both end up going back to Annie's house, and she lays out her whole program for them. And I've got a clip of that that I'm going to play it right now.
[01:13:41] Speaker D: These are the ground rules.
I hook up with one guy a season. Usually takes me a couple weeks to pick the guy.
Kind of my own spring training. And, well, you two are the most promising prospects of the season so far.
So I just thought we should kind of get to know each other.
[01:13:58] Speaker E: Time out.
Why do you get to choose?
[01:14:02] Speaker D: What?
[01:14:03] Speaker E: Why do you get to choose? I mean, why don't I get to choose? Why doesn't he get to choose?
[01:14:08] Speaker D: Well, actually, nobody on this planet ever really chooses each other. I mean, it's all a question of quantum physics, molecular attraction and timing. I mean, there are laws we don't understand that bring us together and tear us apart.
I mean, it's like pheromones. You get three ants together, they can't do dick. You get 300 million of them, they can build a cathedral.
[01:14:32] Speaker E: So is somebody gonna go to bed with somebody or what?
[01:14:34] Speaker D: Honey, you are a regular nuclear meltdown. You better cool off.
Wait, where are you going?
[01:14:44] Speaker E: After 12 years in the minor leagues, I don't try out.
Besides, I don't believe in quantum physics when it comes to matters of the heart.
[01:14:53] Speaker D: What do you believe in then?
[01:14:56] Speaker E: Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch. That the novels of Susan Sontag. Her self indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot. Softcore pornography. Opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve. And I believe in one long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.
Good night.
[01:15:31] Speaker D: Oh, my.
[01:15:34] Speaker A: Crash.
[01:15:34] Speaker C: Hey, Annie. What's all this molecule stuff?
[01:15:37] Speaker D: Crash.
Crash White.
Look, all I want is a date. I'm not gonna fall in love with you. Nothing.
[01:15:45] Speaker E: I'm not interested in a woman who's interested in that boy.
[01:15:49] Speaker C: Good night.
[01:15:49] Speaker D: Well, I'm not interested yet.
[01:15:51] Speaker E: Who you calling a boy? See, at the yard meet.
[01:15:54] Speaker D: Damn. Nobody's ever said no to date with me before.
[01:15:57] Speaker E: He's crazy.
I want you bad.
[01:16:02] Speaker A: So we get Annie, lays out her program and Crash shuts it down.
[01:16:08] Speaker B: So I think, you know, I watched it for the first time. I was like, wow, that's quite a speech that I.
And then listening to Shelton's commentary on it, he's like, nobody really talks this way. Maybe I do. And he's like. It was kind of, you know, he feels like it was a little self indulgent of him as a writer, but it's great.
I'm glad it was kept. I'm glad he kept it.
As far as Crash's little speech back to her.
[01:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Like in his book, he said he needed something a bit over the top, quotable and unforgettable. And he said the speech is intended to get Annie's attention while making Crash hard to characterize, which I love because he throws out all these different ideas. You can't quite pin him down, but they're all kind of intriguing in their own way. Oh, and apparently it wasn't originally Susan Sontag's novels. It was originally Thomas Pynchon. But I guess somebody from Thomas Pynchon's estate or something, or somebody affiliated with Thomas Pynchon got pissed off or something, so.
[01:17:10] Speaker C: Wow.
[01:17:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So they're like, we don't want to mess with that.
[01:17:14] Speaker C: I think he's. I think Crash is so passionate. That's what kind of wins. And he says, how many words that are much deeper and more meaningful than anything that'll. That's going to come out of Ebby's mouth through the whole. Right. So, yeah, he's. He's matching her on a he. Abby doesn't understand what she's talking about. Right. All these, like, who's going to sleep with you? But, like, I think Crash gets her and she gets him. And so, again, this is the full. The first sign where it's like, oh, yeah, these two are definitely going to be together because they have a connection.
[01:17:40] Speaker A: Tim Robbins is so smart in real life, and he plays such a great doofus in this movie. Just so great.
[01:17:47] Speaker C: I love him when he plays doofuses. I don't know what it is. Hudsucker Proxley. I really like him a lot. Bob Roberts, he's such a noob that it's just. I don't know. It's charming in a way, or it suits him. I don't know.
[01:17:59] Speaker A: He's so tall. He kind of. He does that whole big lunk, oaf kind of stereotype. Yeah, exactly. That's great.
Yeah. This is the moment where, like, they could. These two could easily connect, but they just miss each other. And, yeah, she's met her match, basically, and he's met his match, but he's not gonna compete for her with, like, this. This boy, basically.
[01:18:21] Speaker C: Well, isn't it embarrassing that they're both there and they both know what they're there for? Are they gonna all do it? You know what I mean? Are they all gonna form a threesome or is it just gonna be? But she flat out says, I only choose one, and I'm monogamous to that one. And I love that. Crash says no. He takes charge. He takes agency. In that moment, I' doing this. This isn't me. I'm. I'm not.
I don't need this. And so he kind of charges out. And again, I think that's what kind of throws her for a loop.
[01:18:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I bet it's the first time that's ever happened to her.
[01:18:48] Speaker B: She says, so. Yeah, no one's ever not wanted to date me or.
[01:18:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
All right, so we have now seen Annie, Nuke, and Crash, all at Annie's house. And Crash has left the scene, which leaves Annie alone with Nuke, who is now her option for the season.
She kind of. She just kind of defaults to Nuke now. She doesn't, like, put him through any more tests she didn't get right.
[01:19:15] Speaker C: Other than reading in poetry, I guess.
[01:19:17] Speaker A: Yeah. But I think he's already in the program.
That seems like day one of the program. Yeah. She she puts on her Edith Piaf record and she lights some candles. She ties Nuke up to the bed. He's expecting some fun times.
And then she says, you ever heard of Walt Whitman?
To which he says, who's he play for? And she says, he sort of pitches for the Cosmic All Stars. And then she reads him Walt Whitman, specifically. I think I sing the Body Electric. Although she kind of skips around in that poem and. Yeah, it's a whole scene going on here. What do you guys think of Annie's techniques? What do you. Do you think it has much to do with baseball?
She says, when you know how to make love, then you'll know how to pitch. What do you think of her philosophy and her program here, what we see of it?
[01:20:09] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I guess it depends on. On the guy. Nuke is gonna go along with it where, like, Crash wouldn't have. He'd be like, you know, what are you talking about here?
And meet her, you know, poetry for poetry versus Nuke. He's like, I guess, I'll guess, you.
[01:20:29] Speaker A: Know, this kind of begs the question, would she use the same routine on each player? You know, like if Crash had somehow been her, I don't know, mentee or whatever for this season, what would her program for him be? I don't know, but it would seem.
[01:20:44] Speaker C: A little redundant after his speech, I think, to read him that.
[01:20:47] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:20:48] Speaker C: He could probably recite it to her.
[01:20:49] Speaker B: You know, all the years that she has done this. Do they all get the same lessons, as it were? I guess, yeah.
[01:20:57] Speaker A: Syllabus, basically. She's a professor. She has a syllabus. Right.
[01:21:04] Speaker C: She's also teaching him maybe to get in the mood, kind of, I don't know, to slow down. That's her whole thing, right. Because he's what he. He fucks all over the place is what they say. Right. So she's trying to get him to focus where to put it. I guess so. And it's also like, I think sex is like a two way thing, right? It's not so much the one, like, to really make it work, you have to have both. Both parties involved, if that makes any sense. So she's trying to get him in the same mind space as her, I guess.
[01:21:32] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. I sing the Body Electric from what I can. Like I. I was reading through the poem, and from what I can gather about it, it seems like it's. It's really talking about the physical body, but also sort of relating the body to the spirit in a sense too. So I think maybe, you know, I'm sure that was an intentional choice on Shelton's part to put that poem there. And just sort of connecting the body and the spirit might be something that's going on. This really nice precursor to the 1990s.
[01:22:02] Speaker D: Really.
[01:22:04] Speaker A: Like this is what led to the Pure Moods album. I don't know.
[01:22:09] Speaker C: Right.
[01:22:09] Speaker B: That's funny.
Interesting that she, you know, for a person who doesn't even know who Walt Whitman is, like she kind of of starts in heavy, you know, she doesn't, she doesn't give him a, you know, ease him in.
[01:22:25] Speaker A: No, no, she's right. We're getting into the classics here. We're not going to start with a nursery rhyme. Yeah, but how about this notion? If you know how to make love, you know how to pitch.
Do you feel like these sex and sports can be combined in this way to do they have similar.
Are there similar skills? Are there similar qualities? You need to succeed in these things.
[01:22:51] Speaker B: I mean you're in a team sport, so it's not all about you. Right. You know, you do need to give and take and back off or go hard or whatever, you know, so listen.
[01:23:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And to be able to listen and listen.
[01:23:09] Speaker C: You also find that a lot of people these days when they look at romances, they think it's a lot of the dude bros will look at it as one sided. They think that the woman is just there. Basically. They want a blow up doll is all they want. They don't want somebody that's going to push back or have her own agency or have her own opinions. They kind of just want some that's going to sit there and just enable and you know their every move. And that's not how relationships work. That's why a lot of divorces I think happen because you walk into this relationship thing, everything's going to be hunky dory. We'll just figure it out with sex or kids or stuff like that. And then, oh, this person has a different opinion from me. It's like, I got to work this out. But most people just drop it like, oh, this is what I planned at all. I'm going to get out. It's just a weird kind of. I mean from Andy's point, Annie's point of view, I like that she's like, you two are talking about. It's about getting them in the same mind space.
[01:23:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think an interesting thing too is she's specifically dominating him here. She's tying him up and doing what she wants to do. And honestly, like, what Crash ends up having to do in some ways is to dominate him on the field.
We get into this a little bit later where he's not. Where Nuke's not listening to Crash signals. And Crash has to figure out a way to, like, get him into check, to get him to listen to someone else, to get him to, like, you know, take on the knowledge that Crash has. That is more than what Nuke has.
[01:24:22] Speaker C: Don't you think? It's also interesting, especially from this point of view, like, how Tim Robbins is very vulnerable. Like, he. She makes him undress in front of her, which is like turning the tables in a way, from what you usually see later, Crash is going to be wearing her robe, painting her toenail. So a lot of people these days will look at it as, oh, that's not very masculine being, you know, being kind of objectified, which is, you know, again, that's that push, pull. I just think it's for Robbins point of view especially. They're sexualizing him big time, and he's up for it. You know, he wears the garter later. And so it's very.
He's vulnerable in a lot of ways. And it's weird to say, but it's a brave kind of performance today where it wouldn't have really been back then when I guess people were more in touch with their feminine side, I think.
[01:25:07] Speaker A: I. I don't know. I think we are coming to, like, having men in kind of these vulnerable roles again, at least in, like, sort of the indie sphere of filmmaking, so.
[01:25:16] Speaker C: Good.
[01:25:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I think there was a period of, like, pretty.
Pretty, like, conservative portrayals in the 2000s especially. But I think we're coming back around a bit. I don't know.
Now we go back to the ballpark. The next day, we have a scene where we're focusing on Crash, who is at bat. He's talking to himself, and he's trying to psych himself up for his. You know, for hitting the ball. But then he's also got Annie on his mind.
And Annie is watching his. Watching him play, and she sends him a note about. I can't remember exactly what. She sends him a note about something about his stance, I think his hips.
[01:25:52] Speaker C: Something to do with his hips.
[01:25:53] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Something about his stance or his hips or how he's swinging. And he sends a note back, which I believe if you look at it, the note actually says, let's fuck.
Then Millie reads it to Annie and she says. It says, I want to make love to you.
We're getting.
[01:26:13] Speaker C: Kid knows what it means.
[01:26:17] Speaker A: We're getting censorship. Right within the movie.
Like, we've censored the note.
Yeah. And so he's still making a play for her.
She invites him to come meet her at the batting cages to work on his swing.
And then they have kind of a conversation where Crash is trying to make another play for Annie again. And Annie says, sorry, you know, I'm already committed. I'm monogamous for the baseball season.
So any comments about this little exchange that these two have here?
[01:26:48] Speaker C: Well, before we get into that, I like the scene again when they're batting because, number one, we talked about how Crash and Annie are basically destined to be together. They're the only two characters in the whole movie that have inner monologues. I thought that was interesting. Later you see Tim Rob. You see a nuke on the. On the mound. And I think he starts to have, like, an inner. But it's not. He's actually talking to himself. It's not like an inner monologue. I just thought that was a cool way to connect him. And also the way that Shelton shoots that, where Annie gives the kid the note and then the kid walks over the dugout, hands it to somebody. The kid hands it to Crash. Crash writes that, like, stands up. Right. So hands it back to the kid and. And then the kid walks it back to Annie. I thought it was a very cool, like, oner. Like a lot of these romantic comedies, you don't really expect there to be, like, cool directorial flourishes. I just thought it was kind of a neat. And in a way, it's kind of a dance. Right. They're kind of dancing with each other and. And the way he writes the note. And anyway, and so they meet on the. At the batting cage. I just thought that was kind of a cool kind of artistic choice.
[01:27:41] Speaker A: I thought it was cute.
[01:27:42] Speaker B: Like, this whole, like, note passing system.
[01:27:47] Speaker C: Like kids.
[01:27:48] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah.
[01:27:50] Speaker B: I think the scene at the batting cage is. Is every time they're together, it's pretty hot. Like, their. Their tension and their, you know, they. They keep getting really close to each other, and this ball keeps flying right between, like, between them, and they're like, you almost get hit in the face with this ball and yet doesn't seem to phase them. Like, they're both gonna get up there and, like, challenge the other one. And.
[01:28:20] Speaker A: Yeah, they have a very good combative energy that, like, builds that kind of sexual, romantic tension.
[01:28:27] Speaker C: Yeah, they're dancing together romantically, but also they're playing the sport at the same time, you know, that they're both interested in. They're talking like adults, too. They're having an adult conversation. It's not just all about who's gonna sleep with who, or. Let's get down to it, right? She talks about how his minor league record or wherever he's going to hit, and he's like, I just don't. I don't want to worry about. Okay, that's not where I'm at. Like, it kind of, again, it tells you where they're at mentally, but it's also.
They're not just playing literal. A literal game. They're also playing the mind games with each other. And that's what you do when you. You're get into a relationship.
[01:28:58] Speaker A: Yeah, about that record. So we, yeah, we established in this scene that Crash is about to possibly get the minor league home run record, which in the world of this movie is 246. If he hits 246run, 246runs in the minors, he will have achieved a record. Now, interestingly, in the book about Bull Durham, Ron Shelton said he was wrong. He later found out that a player named Buzz Arlett had hit over 400 home runs in the. In the minor leagues during the Babe Ruth era. And then in 2015, Mike Hessman set a new record with 433 home runs in the minor leagues. And it was noticed. This was something that was noted, noticed in this movie. It was, like, portrayed as something that nobody would pay attention to. Like that. That Annie would somehow be the only one who would know. But apparently this is something that is recognized. So. But it's, It's a cool. It's a cool trait for Crash to have. He's not seeking glory. You know, he's not seeking recognition, but I think he's seeking a personal satisfaction in the game. Yeah. And one more thing about their romantic tension here. Crash sort of accuses Annie of being scared of being with him, that she doesn't want to have to deal with him. She'd rather be with this uncomplicated young guy. He, like, Crash, doesn't even want to compete in the same field as, you know, Tim. Tim Robbins, Nuke, this kind of doofy character. It's like, what do you even see in him? Basically, right?
And later that night, Annie goes back to Nuke. They're having sex. Maybe it's later that night, maybe it's a couple days later, we don't know. And Annie says Crash's name during the actual.
And he, He. Nuke is initially very Upset. But then she says, honey, would you rather I'd be making love to him using your name or making love to you using his name?
Nuke says, yeah, maybe you're right.
[01:30:51] Speaker C: Such a dope.
[01:30:52] Speaker A: I love this character, though. He's so funny. He's honestly the funniest part of the movie for me, though. He's just so pure, sort of.
All right, now we're going to go visit the other part of the love triangle, the Crash and Nuke. Axis of the love triangle.
Crash is starting to try to mentor Nuke during the game, and Nuke is resistant. He's trying to signal to Nuke what pitches he should throw. Nuke won't have it. So Crash tells the batter what pitch to expect when. When Nuke ignores the signal.
I thought that was. I thought that was pretty funny. Apparently Ron Shelton says, this has happened, happen. People have done this.
[01:31:31] Speaker B: Yeah, he did say that in the commentary, too. He's like, took this from experience and knew a new a catcher who did this.
[01:31:41] Speaker C: And so there's a. There's. It reminds you that there's strategy to baseball. It reminds you that it's not just you walk up to the plate, you hit the. You hit the ball. There's. I guess the most control over the game is between the pitcher and the catcher because they. Again, they're communicating. Right. What kind of. The catcher knows what kind of balls he's. He's reading the batter, and so he's kind of basically guessing what the. What the. The guy will swing at. So he's gesturing, like, certain throws so they can. And again, it's all about that communication, which Nuke doesn't have with anybody. He doesn't have it with. With Annie. Right. So he also doesn't have it with Crash. And so I like that. This. This, again, this goes back. It's not the greatest. My favorite baseball movie ever made. But as far as, like, the little details of what baseball is and the how you play it, they're all there. It's very nice. It's, again, it's texture of the actual movie, even though it's. You know, they don't. It's more like. I don't know, because they treat it just like a given or a natural thing. They don't focus on it too much. Like, it's not. We're just expected to keep up. I don't know if that makes any sense.
[01:32:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:32:41] Speaker C: But I love that it brings that. Again, this. This will tell you everything about baseball, the give and take. And it's not something that you really notice Again, maybe because this came out so early and you've seen so many baseball movies after.
[01:32:52] Speaker A: We've got a really fun quote in this scene, too.
Crash tells New Nuke, don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. They're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic. And apparently this is an actual quote from a baseball player. Red Sox player Bill Spaceman Lee. So, like you, I saw an elaboration from that player on this quote. It was something like, you have to throw balls so everybody gets a chance to hit.
[01:33:20] Speaker C: Yeah, it's the Little League mentality.
[01:33:24] Speaker A: I kind of like it, though. I kind of like it, like, you know, the audience doesn't want to just watch a game where nobody hits anything either, really.
[01:33:31] Speaker C: I mean, basketball, like, nothing but three pointers, like nobody wants. There's no skill in that, really. I mean, there's skill, but it's, like, not as fun to watch, I guess.
[01:33:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:33:40] Speaker B: Unless somebody's hitting and running in baseball, it's fairly boring.
[01:33:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:33:45] Speaker B: Anybody? What? I mean, definitely on tv. I think it's a boring game to watch live. It's a little more fun, but still, when there's not, when they're just kind of standing there and no one's running.
[01:34:00] Speaker C: Yeah, you're right.
[01:34:01] Speaker B: That's why minor league is so much fun, because they do all these fun little acts and stuff between the team switching and stuff like that. It's a good time.
[01:34:13] Speaker A: So the team is not doing well. This. In this game, Crash does hit a home run. Apparently, he's the only one who's doing well. And the manager confides in Crash that he's worried about the team and how they're not doing well. To which Crash says, scarum. And so the manager does this. He goes and he throws all the bats into the shower, makes all the players stand in the shower. And then I want to do it every Rom com theater. This scene, if anybody else is up to it, I have the manager's lines down. I just kind of need a Larry. Is there anybody who's willing to be my Larry?
[01:34:45] Speaker B: Be the Larry you can be.
[01:34:46] Speaker C: Yeah, let Sofia be the Larry. I want to hear this.
[01:34:48] Speaker B: Oh, my God, this is so much fun. I saw this, and I was like, yay, every Rom com theater.
[01:34:53] Speaker A: So, okay, so we're gonna start our Every Rom com theater. I am the manager, and Sophia is going to be Larry the assistant.
You guys, you lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first you lollygag in and out of the dugout. Do you know what that makes you, Larry?
[01:35:14] Speaker B: Lollygaggers.
[01:35:15] Speaker A: Lollygaggers. What's our record, Larry?
[01:35:19] Speaker B: 8 and 16.
[01:35:20] Speaker A: 8 and 16.
How'd we ever win eight?
[01:35:24] Speaker B: It's a miracle.
[01:35:25] Speaker A: It's a miracle. This is a simple game. You throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball. You got it.
[01:35:36] Speaker B: Hilarious.
[01:35:37] Speaker A: The scene goes on. He talks about how they're about to go on a road trip. But, yeah, I love this scene. I love these two actors in this scene. He's such. Just, like the platonic ideal of, like, a team manager and his coach, you.
[01:35:49] Speaker C: Know, Trey Wilson and Robert. Well, they have this really easy. You can. It feels like they. Like I said before, it feels like they've been together for a while.
[01:35:57] Speaker B: Lollykakers. And what a great work. Lollygaggers. All right.
[01:36:02] Speaker A: Yeah. For several days, I was hoping that I had some reason to use the word lollygaggers, but I was not able to. So that was bad.
Funny.
So he scares the team, and then they go on this road trip.
But before the road trip, we see a scene where one of the guys on the team. Team gets released from the team. So basically fired from the team. And that's a precursor to something we're going to see later in the movie.
And as the team leaves for the road trip, Annie gives Nuke a garter to wear. She tells him it will help him play better.
But Ron Shelton apparently wrote this into the script as a narrative device to keep Annie as part of the story and dynamic even when she wasn't physically there during those scenes. So I think that's interesting. Interesting.
[01:36:54] Speaker C: Cool. Yeah.
[01:36:56] Speaker A: All right. And now we're. We're gonna be on the. The bus. And there's a scene where I. I honestly, I partly just clipped this because I love. It's the peak. Tim Robbins doof in this movie. Really?
Nuke as a doof. But it also has some interesting dynamics between Nuke and Crash in this bus scene. So I'm gonna go ahead and play that she me.
[01:37:21] Speaker E: Young girls that do get woolly.
Cause of all the stress.
[01:37:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
When they get woolly.
[01:37:34] Speaker E: Try a little tenderness yeah. Stop it.
Thank you.
What?
It's not wool. It's woolly.
Nobody gets woolly. Women get weary. They don't get woolly.
Nobody's got stress. They're wearing a dress. Goddamn. I hate people that get the words wrong.
How come you don't like me?
You don't respect yourself. Which is your problem.
But you don't respect the game. And that's my problem.
You got a gift.
[01:38:10] Speaker A: What do I got?
[01:38:11] Speaker E: You got a gift. When you were a baby, the gods reached down and turned your right arm into a thunderbolt. You got a Hall of Fame arm, but you're pissing it away. Ain't pissing nothing away. I got a Porsche already. I got a 911 with a quadraphonic Blaupox. Christ, you don't need a quadraphonic blah puck. What you need is a curve ball, huh? In the show, everybody can hit a fastball. Well, how would you know?
You been in the Majors?
Yeah, I've been in the majors.
[01:38:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:38:42] Speaker C: You been in the show, man?
[01:38:45] Speaker E: Yeah, I was in the Show.
[01:38:48] Speaker A: Were you?
[01:38:48] Speaker E: I was in the show for 21 days once.
21 greatest days of my life.
You know, you never handle your luggage in the Show. Somebody else carries your bags. It's great.
You hit white balls for batting practice.
Ballparks are like cathedrals.
The hotels all have room service.
The women all have long legs and brains.
They're really hot, huh? Yeah. And so are the pitchers. They throw ungodly breaking stuff in the Show. Exploding stuff. Sliders could be one of those guys.
You could be one of those guys, but you don't give a me.
[01:39:37] Speaker C: Listen, I'm sick and tired of you calling me meat.
You want to step outside?
[01:39:44] Speaker E: Yeah, I'll step outside.
[01:39:50] Speaker A: You want to step outside? And they're on a bus. I love it. And, yeah, anyway, I love that dynamic. The whole get Woolly just takes me out, man.
[01:40:00] Speaker B: It's hilarious.
[01:40:03] Speaker A: And I heard you were laughing a bit there. Darren, too, during that part.
[01:40:08] Speaker C: Well, I just think it's cute, the part where he crash is such a. I guess, a control freak that he won't even let him sing the wrong lyrics. And it reminded me of this one time that I took a trip with my mom and she was singing Louis Armstrong's It's a Wonderful World. And she. I was trying to fall asleep in the back, and she was singing to keep herself awake. And she kept saying. And I say to myself, what a wonderful world. I say, I'm like, mom, it's think. It's think to myself. She goes, oh, it's think. I'm like, yeah, it's. It's. It's. It's think. You're. You're keeping me up. She's. Oh, I always thought it was say. And then she kept singing the right words and I fell asleep. I was just laughing because it reminded Me of that.
[01:40:41] Speaker A: At least she picked a probable word.
[01:40:43] Speaker C: Like, I know, right?
[01:40:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I hear words.
[01:40:48] Speaker A: Words.
[01:40:48] Speaker B: There's songs that I have heard for, like, 20 years. I still don't know the lyrics. My kid hears them and she gets the words right. I'm like, how do you do that? I. I don't. I get them wrong all the time. So I kind of feel for Crash or Nuke here, but.
[01:41:06] Speaker A: Well, Sophia, just as long as you remember, nobody gets woolly. Nobody gets woolly.
[01:41:11] Speaker C: Nobody gets weary.
[01:41:13] Speaker A: That's one of the things we can learn from this movie.
I really, I love the dynamic here, though, and I love how it tells you another thing about Crash. It really, really brings home now his sort of humility, his lack of interest and glory. Because nobody on this team knows that he was in the major leagues for a while. Nobody. And like, immediately, as soon as they find out he was in the show, they have so much more respect for him. They are all ears.
[01:41:38] Speaker B: His character is just this, like, he's this career ball player and this career minor leaguer and. And Shelton talks about wanting to show how, like, rough and tumble the minor leagues were at this trashy bus and these, you know, trashy hotels. And it's not glamorous and.
And it can get old pretty fast. And it's like. It's like a young man's game. You know, young men can handle that for a while, but Crash keeps at it because he loves the game so much.
Even having. Having been in the majors, he still came back even to play in the minors.
[01:42:17] Speaker C: This could also be one of those narrative, you know, the team building movies. It's there once they get to know each other and start to respect each other, they start to play better and work better as a team. And yeah, maybe they should have known about that before because it doesn't seem like any of these guys talk to each other. Right? They know what each other does, but that's about it. So I don't know, it just seemed like one of those. As soon as they start, oh, you've been in the show, and they start really bonding. That's when they're gonna start playing better as a team team.
[01:42:40] Speaker A: But not yet. Not yet, because the road trip montage shows us that they are still not winning and Nuke is not wearing the garter, which is clearly why he's not winning. And only, and only Crash is playing well, according to the announcer guy that we. We see in this montage, this fantastic setup where these. This announcer is faking crowd noise and bats Striking balls and stuff.
Yeah. While being told what happens in the game on a telephone call. So that's. That's amazing.
[01:43:10] Speaker C: It took me a minute to realize. It always takes me to realize what he's doing. Like, why is he. Oh, okay. They're not really there, so they have to pretend that they're there. It's really. It's kind of a cute idea.
[01:43:19] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, we could do a. We could narrate a baseball game right now if we wanted. Anyway.
Yeah. Now we also have the. We have a scene where Crash gives them a rain out by putting the sprinklers on the field. So we've got one of those team prank scenes, kind of.
And. Yeah. And then Nuke's dream on the mound where he's naked except for, I guess, his, like, jock strap and, like, the garter.
Yep.
[01:43:45] Speaker C: He's all oiled up.
[01:43:47] Speaker B: He's all oiled up again.
[01:43:49] Speaker C: It's very interesting how they objectify him in this and how willing Robbins is to go for it and look silly and look again, like he's oiled up like a turkey. You know that I kind of say that because a man is oiled up. It's a little different from how I look at it. Like a woman oiled. You know, it's kind of a weird. Differ. Different kind of dynamic. But I. It's just. It's funny that you watch these are very brave performances because you. You. He's looking like a fool. But that's part of the comedy. Right. And so. Or his character. So I think it works. It's. It's just very interesting, these performances.
[01:44:22] Speaker A: All right, does anyone have anything else they want to talk about? This section before we do some. A little bit about minor league baseball.
[01:44:27] Speaker B: I will say that is a tender moment when he wakes up or. Or I think Crash wakes him up and he's like, you're dreaming.
[01:44:34] Speaker A: And.
[01:44:34] Speaker B: And Nuke's like, I had this dream I was naked or, you know, whatever. And Crash is like, yeah, I have that dream, too. Like, you never kind of shake the nerves and that you've always got to psych yourself up to, like, get to bat or do. Do your game well. And so. Yeah, I appreciate that little moment there.
[01:44:54] Speaker A: Yeah, they're not quite big brother, little brother yet, but they're getting.
[01:44:57] Speaker B: Not quite, but it's. It's a moment.
[01:45:02] Speaker A: So before. Before we do our spoiler section, I'm just going to give a little bit of information about the minor leagues. So just baseball in general, though, the history of baseball in General Baseball evolved out of cricket and a game called rounders. And for a long time there was a precursor to the baseball we know today in the United States that was known as town ball.
According to the National Baseball hall of Fame, baseball was already a popular game in the United states by the 1840s. And it was played by soldiers fighting on both sides of the Civil War, which helped to popularize it further when people went home from war and took the game back to their towns.
Yeah, yeah. And the first major league baseball organization was established in 1871.
And then minor league teams have existed since 1901.
In 1902 there were 96 teams.
The next kind of significant development, in 1921, major league teams began owning minor league teams. And that's when they sort of started using the minor league teams as their like, I think it's called like farm teams. That would help them develop players.
[01:46:11] Speaker C: Right.
[01:46:12] Speaker A: And then kind of the peak of minor league play in the United States was post World War II, but pre television, which was like a very small period of time really. But that was kind of the height of the minor league. At its peak there were 59 leagues with 450 teams. And there was a regular season attendance record of 39.7 million in 1949.
That was only broken in 2009 when they had an attendance record of 41.6 million. So yeah, that little post war period was a real like big time for minor league baseball.
And in terms of like minor league, how, how it's divided, the minor league baseball site lists the teams as divided into four classes.
Aaa, which is the highest, double A, high A and single A. And then there's also something called rookie leagues. In 2025, there are 120 teams total. There was a reduction a few years ago in the number of teams.
And the Durham Bulls is still a team and it continues to play AAA baseball. So the highest level and a 2025 article listed them as one of the teams to watch this year. So they're still pro, they are prospering.
And Sophia, I guess you already know that the St. Paul saints are a triple A team in your city. And you said that you have been to see their games. And what is that experience? How, how many games have you been to? What is that experience?
[01:47:39] Speaker B: Like, like, so our friend and neighbor gets season tickets and when she can't go, she's like, you want to go to the game? And so she gifts us and that she's got beautiful seats behind the dugout. So we're like, not out in the field, and that's amazing and it's so much fun. It's a fairly recent stadium, maybe 12 years old, so it's new and it's like all fancy. I mean, my very first minor league game I ever saw was the Brooklyn Cyclones, who that play out in Coney island, which was also a hoot. And you're right on the ocean and the beach. And that was an older stadium, so more like what the Durham Bulls are playing in. A little more rugged, but also just. It's a, just such a fun time. And, and it's. They do have all these acts that come out and they're, especially with the Saints, they're, you know, these, these characters that come out every year and they're kind of famous. There's this one guy who dresses up like a kind of a 80s coach. He's got these shorts and these aviator glasses and they get the crowds going.
It's a good time.
[01:48:49] Speaker A: Did you ever meet the players after the game or anything like that? Do you?
[01:48:52] Speaker B: No, but like, we're right by the dugout, so we get to watch them going in and out, like into the locker room or whatever. And I'm like, look at those fit young men.
I'm like, golly.
[01:49:05] Speaker A: So they're not lolly gaggers?
[01:49:07] Speaker B: No, it's. There is kind of a lolly. A lot of lollygagging. There's a lot of standing around for, you know, for as athletic as they need to be. There's a lot of standing around.
[01:49:20] Speaker A: That's actually kind of one of the reasons I've liked baseball when I was younger is because, like, yeah, no, you do have, have to be in action, but you're not in constant action. Like when I would play soccer, I would want to vomit because you're running so much. You play baseball, you get a little bit of a reprieve there. Yep. Anyway. Yep. All right, so yeah, yeah, just a little more information. Like we already kind of alluded to this, but today's minor league players, you know, they have like a variety of different working and living conditions.
So some of them actually are making a good salary.
There are a certain amount of minor league players that get included in major league teams. 40 man rosters. And that is kind of like a roster of players that you can pull up if you need a replacement player or something like that. So Those people make 300,000 a year because they're on that roster. But then there's also minor league players who are making around fifteen hundred dollars a month.
And you Know, so the living and traveling conditions will vary greatly depending on what position you're in. And players are playing nearly every day during the season and they are often on the road. So it is. Yeah. Like Sophie was, you were saying, kind of a young man's game in a lot of ways, like. Or you have to really hang in there. Yeah. And. And so if you also said that you talked to, I think it was your cousin's husband who was a minor league player. Is there anything you want to share from what he had to say? No.
[01:50:44] Speaker B: My goodness, like everything that you touched on there, you know, he talked about too. And like, like, he's like, it really is gritty and you are on the bus and you are in like, you know, raunchy hotels and stuff like that. And. And then. Yeah, they didn't. For all the working out and practice and playing and whatnot. I mean, you don't make a lot of money. He's like, you break it down and it's like a dollar an hour, couple dollars an hour. And when at the off season, you need an off season job. He was a bartender and he made more money bartending than he did playing.
So, I mean, he said it was fun and he loved it. Of course he played in college and whatnot, but after like two seasons, he was like, I'm done.
[01:51:33] Speaker A: That's.
[01:51:34] Speaker B: That was fun, but no thanks.
[01:51:38] Speaker A: Did he say anything about whether he had seen or enjoyed this movie or not?
[01:51:42] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes, he had seen it and he remembered it and he said, you know, it does do a really good job portraying this, you know, that life that Shelton was trying to show, like this kind of, you know, rugged life. And then, you know, there's a hot shot sometimes and that the.
The Chase character just being this like, lifer, you know, not making any money, a relative loner, but he loves the game so much. I mean, he's in like a room for let. That's where, you know, he lives during the season. It' not glamorous at all.
And his words were, it's gritty and.
But Chase loves the game.
[01:52:28] Speaker A: Wait, Crash. Crash.
[01:52:30] Speaker B: Why am I saying Chase?
[01:52:31] Speaker A: I don't know who's Chase chasing after.
[01:52:35] Speaker C: That Kevin Costner again?
[01:52:36] Speaker B: Yes, chasing after that Kevin Costner. So thanks, Jeff, for all your insight into the game.
That was fun calling him like, hey, man.
[01:52:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, we should have them call into the show next time if we ever do baseball again. I don't know if we will, but, you know, could happen.
[01:52:53] Speaker C: That'd be fun. Yeah.
[01:52:56] Speaker A: All right, so now we're going to enter the spoiler section of the episode. So if you have not watched Bull Durham and you want to be spoiler free, it's a good time now to press pause and then go watch the movie and come back and join us. All right, so we're now back in Durham after the unsuccessful road trip, and Annie has new lessons for Nuke. She tells him to breathe through his eyeballs, and then she also wants him to re channel his sexual energy into the game that night so she does not have sex with him when he gets back. Nuke also finally tries the garters, and Crash sees him trying them on in the locker room, and he kind of pats him on the butt, too. Yes, a good pat.
[01:53:39] Speaker B: Yeah, they do that, don't they? They're like each other's butts.
[01:53:44] Speaker A: He's like, that's hot. He goes, that's hot.
[01:53:47] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:53:49] Speaker A: So that's as close as we're gonna get to a challengers moment. Really? Between these two?
[01:53:53] Speaker B: That's fine.
[01:53:54] Speaker C: At least they're brushing past it. At least it's there.
[01:53:57] Speaker B: And then tells them how to wear them. Right. You know, it's funny.
[01:54:00] Speaker C: Rose goes in the front. Big guy.
[01:54:02] Speaker B: Rose goes in the front.
Hilarious.
[01:54:05] Speaker A: Then we see Nuke out on the. The mound there, and he says, this underwear feels kind of sexy. That don't make me queer. Right, right. He answers himself, oh, my God, such a dupe.
And finally, Nuke takes some pitching advice from Crash. But then he tries to rebel again, and Crash does the thing again where he tells the the bat matter what pitch is coming. So he's sort of learned, and he sort of hasn't learned.
[01:54:35] Speaker C: Is this one with the deuce. Is this that he goes, oh, here, Charlie. Here comes the deuce. Is that later?
[01:54:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm pretty. I think this is the one with the deuce.
[01:54:42] Speaker C: I love that. It's like, okay, Charlie, here comes the deuce. When you speak of me, speak well. And I love how the batter is laughing. I just. It's very charming.
[01:54:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Now we have this montage of them winning, which is set to the song Center Field by John Fogarty, which my husband said he had never heard before. I'm like, what? I know, right? Right.
[01:55:04] Speaker C: Don't they play it with every baseball. Baseball movie?
[01:55:07] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know, but, like, it was on all the time in the 80s. I'm just saying, like, it was on all the time. And he's like, no, never heard. I'm like, whatever, honey. I don't know.
[01:55:15] Speaker C: Well, I'm a Fogarty fan, so that. That might help.
[01:55:18] Speaker A: Well, I'll just. I'll sing. I'll sing a touch for the. The audience isn't, you know, doesn't know what I'm talking about, but it's the one that goes. Goes. Put me in, coach. I'm ready to play today. You know. You know it, Sophia, right?
[01:55:30] Speaker B: I think so.
[01:55:32] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Look at me. I can be center field.
[01:55:38] Speaker C: Anyway, great song. Great song.
[01:55:41] Speaker B: Nice.
[01:55:41] Speaker A: I was utterly bewildered by this. Anyway, all right, so. Yeah. We have a montage, though, with them finally winning games and Annie delivers a monologue. So of over this montage, when Newt started listening to Crash, everything fell into place. He started throwing strikes, and we started to win. But Nuke was still confused. He was so encouraged by his victory that he vowed not to have sex until he lost.
Unfortunately, however, he kept on winning. And for one extraordinary June and July, the Durham Bulls began playing baseball with joy and verve and poetry.
The two sides of my own brain were all jumbled up and crosswired. While one side was being neglected, the other was in paradise, watching our Bulls playing like big leaguers. And then. I'm leaving a little bit out here.
After sweeping the July 4th doubleheader, the Durham Bulls were tied for first.
Beautiful as the winning streak was, I was getting damn lonely. Somethin had to be done.
I needed a man.
Yeah. We have now one of the tropes of a baseball movie, which is the winning streak, you know, that's supposedly. Is caused by something a player is doing.
[01:56:56] Speaker C: Or not doing.
[01:56:58] Speaker A: Or not doing. Yes. Or not doing in this case. Yeah. Any comments on this montage or, you know, any of it?
[01:57:06] Speaker C: I really like the montage. I like when it's, you know, because you. That's where you get. It's not so much dialogue and it's more visuals. You get the music. You can pick your song titles or whatever, but, you know, this. And something like League of Their Own. It's. It's really exciting how you see them, you know, settling in as a team. So I think it's, you know, it's one of the requisite parts of any sports movie, I think.
[01:57:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's good when it's not overused, too. It's definitely not overused here.
And now after this montage, we have another bus scene. Now, Nuke and Crash are kind of buddies, and Nuke is actually asking Crash for advice.
You also notice that Nuke is dressed more like Crash. And here in the. In the first part of the movie, Nuke is very flashy. He's wearing these, like, really patterned shirts, like loud patterns and so forth, and very flashy. And now he's wearing. I think it's like a polo shirt and khakis almost, which is basically what Crash has been wearing for the whole movie. So, yeah, he's becoming the student of. He is the student of Crash at this point. And Crash, instead of giving, like, ball player advice, teaches Nuke some interview cliches, things that he should tell reporters after the game, such as, I just want to give it my best shot, and the good Lord willing, things will work out.
[01:58:19] Speaker B: Fantastic.
Fantastic.
[01:58:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, anyone who's ever watched a sports interview, you're like, okay, yep, yep.
[01:58:29] Speaker C: They've got it down. They've obviously been coached.
[01:58:33] Speaker A: And then Nuke says that he might sleep with Annie because she's getting real upset that they haven't had sex. Sex. But Crash says that he should keep on not sleeping with Annie, saying, never with a winning streak. Now, do you guys think this is pure advice or is there some selfishness in here, too?
[01:58:48] Speaker B: Tough to say. Tough to say because they're all superstitious and they're all like, yeah, I think he does mean, don't mess with a winning streak. But also to his advantage, too.
[01:59:02] Speaker C: Yeah, it's playing to both sides that he wants. Right. But he's getting what he wants both ways. But I also like that it's teaching Nuke, like, yeah, you. You love win. Like, keep with it. Keep what you're doing. Like, don't. Don't do that. So I like that. Yeah, it is helping him out. It's not totally selfish, but it's not totally selfless.
[01:59:18] Speaker A: Now we get off the bus, we get back home again, and Annie tries to seduce Nuke.
She puts her. She's wearing this halter top. Yeah, she's wearing a little halter top with. Without a back. And then she puts her leg right in front of Nuke, like, just lays it out on the table.
And then she's like, I'm going to teach you hand eye coordination by. You can remove my stocking. And he's trying to unsnap this garter, and he is just not succeeding at it, which is an important thing. It will come in later.
[01:59:48] Speaker C: Chekhov's garter.
[01:59:49] Speaker A: Yep, that's right. That's right. I don't know if there's been a Chekhov's garter in any other movie.
[01:59:54] Speaker C: Well, here it is.
[01:59:57] Speaker A: And Nuke reveals to Annie now that Crash told Him to keep not sleeping with her. Which leads to Annie confronting Crash. She barges in on him while he's ironing in his underwear. A very intimate situation. And I've got a little clip for us of that.
[02:00:14] Speaker D: How dare you tell me to stay out of my bed. You are messing with my private life.
[02:00:20] Speaker E: Knock, knock. You know, come in.
[02:00:22] Speaker A: You're confused.
[02:00:23] Speaker E: Thank you.
[02:00:23] Speaker A: You're confusing him.
[02:00:24] Speaker D: You're bending his mind all out.
[02:00:26] Speaker A: What? You're confused.
[02:00:28] Speaker E: Confusing him. You got him breathing out of the wrong goddamn eyelid. You got him parading around the locker room like a fruit.
[02:00:34] Speaker D: That is a religious ritual, and it.
[02:00:36] Speaker B: Happens to be working.
[02:00:37] Speaker D: If you don't mind my son.
[02:00:38] Speaker E: Wait, wait, wait a second. Who dresses you?
[02:00:41] Speaker D: What?
[02:00:41] Speaker E: Who dresses you? I mean, do you think this a little excessive? For the Carolina League?
[02:00:45] Speaker D: The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom. William Blake.
[02:00:49] Speaker E: William Blake.
[02:00:50] Speaker D: William Blake.
[02:00:51] Speaker E: William Blake.
[02:00:52] Speaker D: William Blake.
[02:00:53] Speaker E: What do you mean, William Blake.
[02:00:54] Speaker D: William Blake.
[02:00:59] Speaker E: Who are you? I mean, do you. Do you have a job?
[02:01:02] Speaker D: I teach part time at Alamance junior college. English 101 and beginning composition.
[02:01:08] Speaker E: You know, having a conversation with you is like a. Is like a Martian talking to a fungo.
[02:01:15] Speaker D: Oh, cute. That's really. You know, just because sometimes you manage to be clever and you have a nice smile, doesn't it mean you are not full of shit?
[02:01:21] Speaker E: But I'm full of shit.
[02:01:22] Speaker D: You're full of shit.
[02:01:23] Speaker A: I'm full of shit. You are full of shit.
[02:01:24] Speaker E: Newt's chastity was your idea.
[02:01:26] Speaker D: I know. I'm telling you. Just get your hands out.
[02:01:28] Speaker E: I never told him to stay out of your bed.
I never told him to stay out of your bed. I told him that a player on a streak has to respect the streak.
[02:01:37] Speaker D: Fine.
[02:01:37] Speaker E: You know why? Because they don't happen very often.
[02:01:40] Speaker C: Why?
[02:01:40] Speaker E: If you believe you're playing well because you're getting laid, or because you're not getting laid, or because you wear women's underwear, then you are, and you should know that.
Come on, Annie. Think of something clever to say, huh?
Something full of magic, religion, bullshit.
Come on, dazzle me.
[02:02:09] Speaker D: I want you to.
[02:02:11] Speaker E: What?
[02:02:13] Speaker D: I said, I want you.
[02:02:15] Speaker C: Stop it.
[02:02:17] Speaker A: All right, this for me, this is the best scene, I think, for me, between Sarandon and Costner. What do you guys think?
[02:02:25] Speaker C: Yeah. It's like they're finally going head to head, right? They're finally, like. They're not dancing anymore. They're finally getting into it. And I like how he's confronting her about all her, like, her bullshit techniques. And she's doing the Same thing. So, again, they're. Even though they're not really saying anything, really, what they're not saying says everything. I don't know if that makes any sense. It's just nice that he. He tells you, like, you know, you're spinning all these traditions. Like, if you believe that this is happening, this is not happening, then it is. That's just how it is. And it basically shuts her up in a way. And, you know, he. You know, Marshall, he expects her to come back with something. She doesn't. The only thing she comes back is with is something very, very vulnerable. But still, I. I don't know. I just think that it's. They're not quite there yet. Obviously they're going to end up together, but they still got stuff to work out.
[02:03:08] Speaker A: Out.
[02:03:08] Speaker C: I don't know. I just like that whole. Again, they're opening some barriers or breaking down some barriers here, and I think that's what makes it. Makes it more meaningful.
[02:03:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
Why do you think he doesn't accept her offer? Is it out of loyalty to Nuke, I wonder, or the team?
Or is it his own pride, I wonder.
[02:03:27] Speaker C: For me, it would be. Her mind wouldn't be fully. Because she's monogamous. Right. She's still technically with Nuke, so her mind's not going to be 100% on him. That's not something that I would want. It's. They're not. Like I said, they're not quite there yet.
[02:03:41] Speaker A: Well, I mean, she kind of calls.
[02:03:43] Speaker B: Him a little bit. She's like, you're scared. And he's like, maybe I am. You know. Yeah, it's.
I also think he thinks it's not the right time to, you know, they've got this winning streak, and there is this dynamic between her and Nuke still, and. And if it's going good, the winning streak, you don't mess with it.
[02:04:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think.
[02:04:07] Speaker C: But they're also pretty vulnerable, too. Like, he's in his underwear, she's dressed pretty sexy, but it still doesn't go anywhere. Obviously, there are layers that are. There are fewer barriers, literally fabric between them, but they're still not mentally prepared. They're not mentally there yet.
[02:04:21] Speaker A: They have great chemistry in this scene, though. Great acting chemistry. I think, think overall in the movie, I think Sarandon actually has better chemistry with Robbins, probably because they were actually getting together.
[02:04:31] Speaker C: But. Yeah.
[02:04:33] Speaker A: But in this scene, it really crackles for me. Yeah.
All right. So, yeah. And there was a whole other scene that had more of Annie's backstory. And she told all about how she got into baseball, etc. Etc. But apparently it didn't test well in test screens. And it was cut, since it seemed to slow the back end of the movie down. So.
[02:04:52] Speaker C: Yeah, it's interesting, though, because the end shot the camera. Sorry to jump ahead, but during the credits, the camera focuses on one player's face.
And I thought. I was like, well, who is that? And you look into it. That's actually. It's Thurman Lee Munson. He was a catcher for the New York Yankees. He died in a plane crash on August 2nd.
I've got it right. It's 1979, but the scene has to do with where I think she got in a fight with her and he got in a fight with her dad. And so she ended up at one of these tryouts of these games or something like that, and she met. Met Thurman Munson.
And so that kind of started her love of the game. And I think that's why they had that shot at the end. So I understand if it didn't test well with audiences, but it does give you more insight, like you two were talking about. About into your character and also make sense of why they would focus on the guy's face at the end. It doesn't make any sense without that scene.
[02:05:38] Speaker B: Too bad in that Criterion DVD they didn't have that deleted scene.
[02:05:43] Speaker C: Oh, they don't.
[02:05:44] Speaker B: Interesting.
[02:05:44] Speaker C: Okay.
[02:05:45] Speaker B: I don't think I didn't catch it.
[02:05:47] Speaker A: All right, now we've got a bunch of things happen. We're coming to the. Near the end of the movie. Now we have a scene at the ballpark where a bunch of stuff is going on. Nuke's dad is at the game, which is making him nervous. One player thinks his glove has been cursed. And players all around are wondering what to give Millie and Jimmy for their wedding. So we didn't really talk much about them, but Jimmy is a very religious player. And Millie, of course, is the play, is the girl who sleeps with. With kind of all the players. But she and Jimmy, against all odds, are getting married. They've ended up together. And. And so all these players end up on the mound, like, just talking about their various problems. And then the assistant coach goes to sort this out. This scene apparently was in danger of being cut many times, but it's very funny. It's.
[02:06:33] Speaker B: It's my favorite scene in the whole movie.
[02:06:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[02:06:35] Speaker C: You know what? I agree. This is my favorite. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:06:40] Speaker A: No, you go ahead.
[02:06:41] Speaker C: Ladies first. Sophie. Oh, wow.
[02:06:44] Speaker B: Okay. I just think it's utterly hilarious. And my kind of favorite bit is when the assistant coach comes up and he's. What's going on? And Costner's like, we're dealing with a lot of shit here, you know, Totally serious. They're all serious. And then apparently the actor who plays the assistant coach, I forgot his name. Like, A.D. robert Wool. That line about, like, candles can or candlesticks making a good wedding gift or something. And I love how he goes, and we should check her registry. Like, he knew that detail. Yeah, Very good.
[02:07:24] Speaker C: Costner's line. We're dealing with a lot of shit. I love that. But it be. And it's because they are, like. It sounds very trivial, but these are very serious things that are getting into their head. Heads. And it's just a nice, very human moment. Yeah. Larry's whole thing about how he just. Yeah. Candles. The youth registry. I. I love that. It's just so. It nails a lot of the dynamics of the game. And when you're playing and the things that you get in your head, it's so human. If they would have cut that out, I would have been a player who.
[02:07:48] Speaker B: Thinks his glove is cursed. And he needs a chicken.
[02:07:51] Speaker A: Chicken.
[02:07:52] Speaker B: And it's like, we need chicken blood. We need, you know, the wedding gift. And. And Nuke's dad's here. And like. Like, oh, man.
[02:08:01] Speaker A: Yep. It's very funny. It's very mundane, but very funny that we need these little rough edges. In movies, you need these little extra things.
Not everything has to serve the A plot all the time.
[02:08:12] Speaker C: Well, this is the kind of thing that I call them, like, flourishes, like little gems that kind of nail the characters. And a lot of modern movie watchers will watch a scene like this and get mad at it because it doesn't put the plot anywhere. And I'm like, yeah, but it gives you so much insight into their characters. Like, why would you want to cut this out? If you were a filmmaker, you would be boring as shit. You know what I'm talking. You cut out all the little fun stuff.
[02:08:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So this is like, people who want to, like, understand Moby Dick by reading the summary or something or, like, letting AI tell them what happened.
[02:08:42] Speaker C: Yeah. There's no room for fun.
[02:08:46] Speaker A: All right, so we also have a scene where Crash fights with an umpire over a call and ends up calling him a. Which is apparently what the one thing that will get him kicked out of this game. He gets kicked out of the game. They lose the game, and Annie knows that, therefore Nuke will be coming over because now they can have sex. But surprising her, he brings his dad.
And also, it seems like Annie might be about to break up with Nuke here before this even happens. What do you think?
[02:09:14] Speaker B: Oh, I never thought that at all.
[02:09:17] Speaker A: I think she's gonna break up with him because, like, even, like, she kind of, like, tries to calm him down when he comes to try to have sex with her. And she says it's because of his dad, but she also says, I think we need to talk. Yeah, Yeah. I think she's ready to. To go with Crash.
[02:09:32] Speaker C: She's also not. Not to demean her, but she is dressed less provocatively. She's dressed in a. Like, a dress that her. Like, he tells his dad that she's a Catholic girl. She dresses exactly as the dad probably would have expected her to dress. Right. It doesn't count. Catch him off guard at all. But again, I think it's a part of. Maybe you're right. I think it's just a part of her growing up. And she's realized. Yeah, because she says, right, I knew he was going to come over, but it's not the man that I wanted to come over. And I think when you find out, when they get the phone call, I think it's kind of a relief for Annie.
[02:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, they get. Yeah, they get now a phone call.
Everybody knows Nukes at her house. So Annie. The call comes to Annie's house that Nuke has made it to the show. He's going to be in the major league leagues. And Nuke is all. Nuke is sweet because he's saying, you know, he's saying he'll be back to Annie. Right. But Annie instead says, no, no, this is goodbye. People don't ever come back once they've gone to the majors. Like, this is goodbye. And it's a sweet goodbye.
[02:10:29] Speaker B: It is.
[02:10:31] Speaker A: Now we get a not so sweet scene between Nuke and Crash. Crash is kind of drunk, I think, at the pool hall. And Nuke comes in to tell him he made.
Made it into the show. And Crash is bitter. He's not in a good place to receive this news.
[02:10:47] Speaker C: Does it seem a little out of character to anybody else? Does it seem to come out of, like. I don't know. I guess I didn't. Don't expect. I don't know what to expect his reaction to be, but it's like he's. Where did the depression set in? You know what I mean? Where did it come from?
[02:11:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know.
[02:11:03] Speaker B: It makes me uncomfortable. I don't like It. I don't like him being angry, get Nuke like that. But I can, I. I can see, you know, why he would be.
Yeah. Bitter and jealous and.
And then even. And so he, he hits him, right?
[02:11:22] Speaker A: His first.
[02:11:23] Speaker B: So Nuke. Nuke hits Crash. And the first question Crash asks is, which hand? You know, was it your pitching hand? Don't hurt your pitching hand.
[02:11:34] Speaker A: So he's still trying to be on Nuke's side, even through his cloud of bitterness.
[02:11:40] Speaker C: Even though I don't know how we got to this place. I like that the scene isn't. It gets there gradually where you realize, oh, he's just kind of self indulgent, like he's kicking himself, right? Because I'm a loser, whatever. And it just seems to maybe come from when he's drunk. But I like that it builds naturally to a point where, yeah, it's funny. He punches him in the face and he's like, ah, you hurt my eye, right? And it's like, just help me up from the floor. It's like. It's not a totally. It's still a charming scene.
Get ugly. I think it redeems itself.
[02:12:07] Speaker A: And Crash apologizes in the locker room the next morning. And they do have a decent goodbye after all. And at this point, Nuke is self aware enough about his ignorance that he actually makes a joke involving the word ignorance.
[02:12:22] Speaker C: I just like seeing you riled up.
[02:12:25] Speaker A: That's right.
And we see now also a baseball field wedding between Millie and Jimmy.
But right after the celebration, right. In fact, when they're in the middle of the celebration, Crash gets called into the manager's office.
And we see a. We see a payoff for the earlier scene where someone was released because we hear the same words like, this is the hardest thing a manager has to do. And he's so vulnerable here. He's in just his towel, he's still wet from the shower, and he's getting, you know, fired. They. They do put in a little thing like, there might be a manager position in Visalia next season. Like, but this is at the same time, this has got to be dispiriting on one level, because they're no longer thinking of him as a player. They're thinking of him as like. Like them, the guys who've been kind of put out to pasture. Put into management.
[02:13:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
And you can see it on his face even before the manager says anything. Like when they're like, close the door. And he's like, okay. And he stops.
And he knows it's coming.
[02:13:24] Speaker C: It takes him A while it.
[02:13:25] Speaker B: He just takes the whole thing. He doesn't react. H. Gut wrenching.
[02:13:30] Speaker A: Gut wrenching.
But he has some consolation. Crash washes up on Annie's front porch and they finally get together. And the. The. The Chekhov's garter belt pays off because he unsnaps her garter with one handed without even looking. I don't think I could freaking do that. That. Let me say.
And. And she gives another one of her. Oh my.
And we have plentiful 80s romantic saxophone.
[02:14:02] Speaker C: So good sexy sex.
[02:14:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And now we've just got lots. Like we've got a sex montage basically now. Or a sex and intimacy montage. They're having sex on the bed. They're. They're rolling onto the floor. They're on the kitchen table. They're in the bathtub with candles.
We see like Crash wearing a very feminine robe of Annie's. And they're dancing to 60 Minute man by the Dominoes, which is a very sexy song to begin with.
And. Yeah, and there's a scene where Annie's tied up and this is where you really think something is gonna go down. But we find out that he's just painting her toenails.
Like the way they play that shot, though, they're just like slowly padding over her body. And you're like, oh, what's he up to over there?
And yeah, it was kind of like, oh, toenails. But it puts it in your mind what else he could be doing, which is very clever, which gets around the ratings.
[02:14:53] Speaker C: Is there. Is there a difference in the way the sex scenes are filmed? You see, the first time with Nuke, it's very quick. It's almost like. Doesn't really matter the next time. The next sex scene we see is them under. You know, when she says Crash's name, but they're under blankets, you don't see anything. And then this one's a full off, like you said, it's a montage and intimacy. I like that you said that because it's. They're connecting, but not in a way that's just purely sexual. Because now they've, you know, they know each other. And so that's. They're at a place where they can actually bond. You know, literally, figuratively, all that stuff. I don't like when they spill the milk on the table. As somebody who, you know, watches the milk prices race, I'm like, pick that back up. But I also like when she's tied up and you see her squirming. She's Squirming in a way that you think she's up to something else, but he's doing something that's, again, very intimate. And I think she's turned on by that. And so, again, it's. It's a different kind of sex scene than what we've gotten in the rest of. And in a lot of movies, it's a different kind. It's like you said, it's that intimacy is really important here.
[02:15:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[02:15:54] Speaker B: I really like it when they're. When they're eating at. In the kitchen. You know, just. She's eating ice cream and smoking a joint, and he's eating the cereal, and they. They're just. They're, you know, they're talking and laughing. Like, that's fun stuff too. And.
But, yes, the milk drove me crazy too. I'm like, clean.
[02:16:12] Speaker C: That's expensive.
[02:16:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I gotta say, I've never had sex that, like, put food all over a kitchen before.
[02:16:19] Speaker B: Like, yeah, right.
[02:16:21] Speaker A: I've seen this in multiple movies, and it just, like. It's just never been something like. I feel like you'd almost have to go out of your way to do that in a way, like.
[02:16:29] Speaker C: Right.
Also, did the bowl break? Because I'm like, oh, now you pick up all those shards. It's too much work.
[02:16:34] Speaker B: He throws them in the sink and it breaks.
[02:16:37] Speaker A: And, yeah, I do approve of the can of the bathtub sex. So she has a great bathtub. I mean, lighting all those candles is very impractical, but, like, I like the whole layout. They're very sexy, very nice.
Yeah. And I love the song 60 Minute Man. Like, I mean, the whole song is basically about taking your time to have good sex.
So it's in.
All right, now we're coming to the end of the movie. So Crash actually goes back out to play. He finds a team. I think it's Asheville. Maybe he finds a team where he can play to get his record. Home Run Annie talks about this in a monologue. And we see another sort of montage which shows Crash hitting his home run and Nuke is succeeding. But the way we know that Nuke is succeeding is we see him give one of those interviews with the cliche answers just like we crashed on him.
[02:17:29] Speaker C: It's incredible. It's incredible how long he goes.
[02:17:34] Speaker A: And then. I love her observation about Nuke. The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness.
Is there a truer statement? I don't know.
[02:17:45] Speaker C: I think that's the most famous line from the movie. That's what People always quote it seems like, yeah, the research that I was doing, like reading some essays and things like that. Everybody, Everybody really seemed to be affected by that line.
[02:17:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I feel this deeply. Like, I just feel like my whole life I've had too much self awareness. So I think it probably would have been easier without it, but I wouldn't trade it at the same time.
[02:18:05] Speaker C: Right.
[02:18:05] Speaker B: So.
[02:18:07] Speaker A: And now we have a Durham Bulls game, is rained out. Annie comes home and she finds Crash on her porch.
And their little conversation makes it clear that they're going to get together long term because Crash shares his possible plan to manage in Visalia. But he's talking about it to her like he's wanted to know her opinion. It sounds like he wants to know if she'll come along for the ride. Although she'd be giving up a hell of a house, I gotta say that. Yeah, but, yeah, exactly.
[02:18:34] Speaker C: They can always let Millie have the house.
[02:18:36] Speaker A: That's true. That's true.
[02:18:38] Speaker C: What I, what I really like here is like, you know, he's basically telling her, like you said, he's like, finding out if she's okay with it. He's being open with her and making plans with her. And she has a relief on her face and in her voice where she's like, like, I don't have to pretend to be. I'm the, the, the, the shit. Right? I don't have to pretend like I'm the, the biggest, smartest person in the room. I can actually be vulnerable with a person. It seems like a relief for her. And you see that in the breathless, the breathiness of her voice and the way she just starts crying. It's a very. Again, you don't really know if you don't. If you haven't watched the rest of this movie, you don't really know what they're talking about. They're basically still talking in baseball code. Right? But I just like that they're finally bonding and in a way saying, I'm done. I'm tired. Let's just, let's just make something of this and stop playing around.
[02:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She starts, she theorizes a bit about baseball, but he, he then says, annie, I got a lot of time to hear your theories, and I want to hear every damn one of them. But right now I'm tired.
I just want to be. And she says, I can do that, too. And, and yeah. And then the whole movie ends, though, with her giving a quote from Walt Whitman about basically baseball or what, you know, a misquote as we will find out in a second. But she says Walt Whitman said, I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game. It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us. You could look it up now. I did look it up.
Blessed with the Internet as we are. And apparently Temple University has a special collection of different things involving Walt Whitman. According to them, it is a misquote.
It is sort of an amalgamation of two Walt Whitman quotes which are quite long. But if you'll indulge me, I will read them out here.
Number one, I like your interest in sportsball. Chiefest of all, baseball, particularly baseball is our game, the American game. So there we have some commonality.
I connect it with our national character. Sports take people out of doors, get them filled with oxygen, generate some of the brutal customs, so called brutal customs which after all tend to habituate people to a necessary physical stoicism. We are some ways a dyspeptic nervous set. Anything which will repair such losses may be regarded as a blessing to the race. We want to go out and howl, swear, run, jump, wrestle, even fight. If only by so doing we may improve the guts of the people. People. The guts vile is. Guts are divine as guts are.
Does it doesn't really make a. Does it really make a good movie ending quite as well though, huh?
[02:21:14] Speaker C: Too long. Yeah, too long.
[02:21:16] Speaker B: But man, what a missed opportunity to talk about guts in such a great way.
[02:21:22] Speaker A: And there's a second one. Baseball is the hurrah game of the Republic. That's beautiful. The hurrah game. Well, it's our game. Game. That's the chief fact in connection with it. America's game has the snap go fling of the American atmosphere, belongs as much to our institutions, fits into them as significantly as our constitutions laws, is just as important in the sum total of our historic life.
So that's Walt Whitman on baseball. He loved it, apparently.
And any other comments about the end of the movie then too, how the movie ends?
I think it's perfect.
[02:21:58] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't reach any like, grand statement, you know, like I said that it really just comes down to sometimes something you love doesn't love you back. But yeah, I mean, Crash finds Annie and he loves something that loves him back. And they're able to be comfortable with each other even though they're, you know, he's going to be a small league coach and she's going to keep living in this town, living in this house, you know, following me around, whatever they're going to Be together. I think you're looking for these little, small victories. And not every movie has to end with the grand statement. I thought about that for a long time. Like, well, what was the point of that? But it's like, well, sometimes there is no point. Sometimes it's just those little small things that keep you going.
[02:22:32] Speaker A: Love is the point.
That's why. That's why we have this podcast.
[02:22:38] Speaker C: Exactly.
[02:22:41] Speaker A: All right, so let's get now to our double feature recommendations. And yeah, these are just some movies we think would pair well with Bull Durham. And I'll go first.
So I'm probably stealing this. Probably from you, Darren. Maybe from you too, Sophia. But I got here first. My first double feature is going to be Field of dreams from 1989, which is, for me, it is, yes, the better Kevin Costner baseball movie. For me, Field of Dreams is the best baseball movie, even though it is not as much about baseball as it is about. About, like, idealistic dreams and following things that don't necessarily make sense. And a beautiful movie like that is, for me, it really does encapsulate how baseball is the American sport. And of course, it stars Kevin Costner and James Earl Jones, as you mentioned. And if you are somehow unfamiliar with this movie, a farmer hears a voice in his cornfield that basically tells him to build a ballpark. Park. A baseball park in his cornfield. And many fascinating things come from that place.
Yeah. Anyone want to add any comments about that? Because I might have stole it from someone.
[02:23:52] Speaker B: Yeah, totally stole it. That's okay, though. You were there first and.
Yeah, I would have picked it as.
[02:23:58] Speaker A: Well for all those reasons.
[02:24:00] Speaker B: It's.
[02:24:02] Speaker C: This is my. Field of Dreams is my favorite movie of all time. It's a movie that. That I settled into. Like, the summer that it came out was the summer of Batman. And as a teenager, that was all I was interested in. I did see Field of Dreams in the theater, but it didn't because I was just thinking of Batman the whole time. And so watching it, like in high school when I was sick one night and the movie was on tv. And I just remember watching it and just settling into this magic mood and just. It changed me. And so I walked downstairs and I told my mom, I think Field of Dreams is my favorite movie. I don't think I've. I feel different. Different. And it's just you. I could go on for hours and hours. But you're right, it's. It's. Baseball is the background for dreams and ideals and things like that. But it's also like we talked about, it's when James Earl Jones, at the end, he's basically saying, you know, the world is just. We don't have time for anything. But baseball will be the reminder. Right? Baseball will be the thing that ties everybody together. And the thing that gets me, like, it gets everybody else. Like, I didn't. My. My. I think I told you ladies at the beginning, it's like. Like my biological father died when I was 2. I didn't have a chance to play catch until my mom remarried. And so just that whole thing of the redemption. And more than that, it's about following faith. It's funny watching people watch the movie today and they don't understand. I've watched people think that it's a movie about demonic possession.
Yeah. Literally, some. Some reactor watched the whole thing going. And these people are sick. These people are gross. What's happening? I. And I'm like, do you just not understand what faith is? It's very weird watching people watch this movie. But, yeah, the whole movie's about doing something. You don't know why you're doing it, but you have faith that it's going to work. And he. What Ray Kinsella does, he keeps doing, and it keeps building, and he keeps building like a team, so to speak, that believe in him and that follow their dreams. And so all these people are able to just achieve something because they have faith. And he's rewarded in the end with something that's been his. Has kind of defined him for life and wounded him. And now he's able to kind of put it to. It's just a lovely, lovely made movie. Lovely, idealized movie. Everything about it is per. Like I said, Kevin Costner is perfect in it because he's not required to do anything really deep. But yeah, it's. I've been giggling this whole time because every time you mention Field of Dreams, I'm like, ah, I got stuff to say. So that's just the very short version of it.
[02:26:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And, yeah, it's a fantastic movie. I've actually visited the Field of Dreams and in Dyersville, Iowa. Jealous.
[02:26:17] Speaker B: I totally want to. It's on my.
[02:26:19] Speaker A: I mean, it's not. It's not that far. And at one point, I had a jar of dirt that I bought there.
Yes. I don't know. So dorky. Okay.
[02:26:28] Speaker C: Anyway, sorry to take up so much time there, but.
[02:26:32] Speaker A: No, no, that was beautiful. That was beautiful. I wish you had somehow gotten to that one first, actually now, because you. You articulated it much better than I could.
[02:26:40] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I was slow on the uptick, so it's fine.
[02:26:44] Speaker A: So my second double feature recommendation is the one that I was talking about at the very beginning of the episode. That is a nostalgic pick. It is major league from 1989. And this is a nostalgic pick because my family would go to, like, one or maybe two movies a year, and one was. One of them was usually a baseball movie. And Major League was one of the movies we went to that year. And it was just kind of one of those movies, baseball movies I'd always watched with my family.
And it. It is very dated in certain ways. There are whole plot lines that I'm like, I don't know about that anymore, especially the romantic plot line. But it's still fun, actually. There's. And there's a great ensemble vibe to the whole movie. And Charlie Sheen is in it. Wesley Snipes, Tom Behringer, all in it.
They're great together.
And it's also one of those Team of Misfits movies where, like, they assemble a team of misfits who isn't expected to win, but they end up doing well despite themselves. Kind of like the DNA for Ted Lasso kind of happening in there a little bit. So.
But it's very 80s. It's very. If you're. If you're easily offended, you probably won't be too into Major League. But it is. It is a fun movie nevertheless, and a nostalgia pick.
And then my third choice is going to be Everybody Wants Some, the Richard Linklater movie from 2016 about a college base baseball team. And this is such a great hangout movie. Like, I. The funny thing is, I don't really like Dazed and Confused that much. I don't really know why. But, yeah, I don't like. I don't respond to it. I don't relate to any of those characters. But somehow I like this one, even though I am not. Even though I'm not some college dude in the 70s. Maybe it's because Glen Pyle's really hot and he looks great in 70s outfits. I don't know, maybe it's because of all the disco. But, like, for whatever reason, I really get into the vibe. Vibe of Everybody Wants Some. It's just all the different types you might find on a sports team, kind of there's an intellectual, mystic type on the team. There's a kind of an everyman. There's some guys who are just trying to get laid, you know, and there's people who take it a little too seriously and people who don't fit in. Just. It's a great, like, hangout movie about, like, what constitutes a baseball team.
[02:28:54] Speaker B: So if Field of Dreams is the number one baseball movie, A League of Their Own, I think comes a very close second. And that was one of my picks that came out in 1992, directed by Penny Marshall, starring Tom Hanks and Geena Davis and Rosie o' Donnell and Madonna and Lori Petty. And it's fantastic. If you haven't seen it, it's about.
[02:29:18] Speaker A: Oh, Darren seen it.
He just did an episode on it.
[02:29:22] Speaker C: Yes, very, very.
[02:29:23] Speaker B: I meant that for the greater audience. Oh, yeah, sorry, my name.
[02:29:28] Speaker C: What's wrong with you if you haven't seen A League of the Realm? Come on.
[02:29:30] Speaker A: A little bit.
[02:29:31] Speaker B: Yeah, a little bit. It's just fantastic.
[02:29:35] Speaker A: It is so feel good.
[02:29:37] Speaker B: It is about, you know, the women's baseball league when all the men were off at war and featuring these sisters who.
One is a very natural.
She's got a natural talent and she kind of reluctantly goes on the tour for her younger sister who really wants to be on the team, who's a good player, but just doesn't have that charisma that her sister has. So you've got this sisterly story and you've got this washed up ball player and Tom Hanks, who's hilarious in it. The classic lines of there's no crying in baseball.
[02:30:13] Speaker A: So good.
[02:30:14] Speaker B: Highly recommend.
[02:30:16] Speaker A: Yep.
[02:30:17] Speaker B: My next pick, I don't know know. It's from 1988. It's called stealing Home.
Familiar to you guys? Have you ever seen it?
[02:30:25] Speaker A: I've heard of it, but I haven't seen it.
[02:30:27] Speaker B: Okay.
[02:30:27] Speaker C: I. I don't know if I've seen it, but I have heard of it.
[02:30:30] Speaker B: Okay. It's got Jody Foster and Mark Harmon in it.
And it's. It starts off with this boy and this Jody Foster character who's a little bit older than him. Well, quite maybe like five, six years older.
And they grow up together and she is kind of his first love and he's a ball player.
[02:30:56] Speaker A: He plays ball.
[02:30:57] Speaker B: And she's like, you're. You're a ball player, Billy. That's what you need to do. Then she's the one who encourages him to do that. And, you know, he goes off and plays ball and then finds out that she has died under sad circumstances. So he goes back home and there's a lot of flashback to when he was young and with his best friend and this coming of age story and then to the present where they get, you know, they're trying to decide what to do with her ashes or honor her ashes.
[02:31:27] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness.
Yeah, it's. It's.
[02:31:30] Speaker B: It's sad, but it has this baseball element to it. And the great 80s saxophone.
[02:31:37] Speaker A: Same. Okay.
[02:31:38] Speaker B: Gotta do it.
[02:31:40] Speaker A: And it's.
[02:31:40] Speaker B: It's kind of beautiful.
[02:31:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I can see the poster. It's Jodie Foster kind of dreamlike, front and center, then Mark Harmon kind of kneeling. Okay, I know what movie you're talking about.
[02:31:52] Speaker B: And then I chose not a sport film at all, but Thelma and Louise. Because if you want to see more Susan Sarandon being awesome, you need to watch this film, if you haven't already came out in 1991, and it's starring Susan Sarandon and Geena Davis and their two friends who go on a girls trip and it turns bad and they got to flee from the law.
[02:32:18] Speaker A: And you got some early Brad Pitt in there. And you got some in there, too.
[02:32:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it's all awesome.
[02:32:27] Speaker A: By putting Thelma and Louise in there, you have also got two Geena Davis movies in your double features.
[02:32:31] Speaker B: Oh, my God, I do, don't I?
[02:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So you could almost do like, a triple feature connecting Geena Davis and Susan.
[02:32:37] Speaker C: Sarandon, but then you've got Jodie Foster in Stealing Home. Who stole the Oscar from Susan Sarandon that year?
[02:32:43] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
Cosmic Justice.
Amazing.
[02:32:50] Speaker A: Amazing.
[02:32:51] Speaker C: Okay, so for my double feature, first one I have is Eight Men out, which is interesting talking.
Jan, you picked Field of Dreams. I'm like, well, I'm going to pick another Shoeless Joe type anyway, so the whole thing with Shoeless Joe and Field of Dreams, where they talk about, you know, the White Sox and everything, that's what this movie's about. It's from 1988, and it's from another idiosyncratic writer, director John Sayles. I always loved his.
[02:33:11] Speaker A: One of my favorite. He is one of my favorite directors. So.
[02:33:14] Speaker C: Yeah, just. Just lovely. But then you've got a cast like John Cusack and Christopher Lloyd and Charlie Sheen again from, you know, Major League. David Swithair and Davey Sweeney, Michael Rooker, um, it's just Bill Irwin's in there. And. And again, it's just kind of this. This interesting look at how the White Sox, you know, how it builds, how every. Everybody built, like, a reputation and how their lives kind of pushed them in this direction to kind of famously, they threw their games, even though some of the players didn't want to go along with it, and ended up being kind of thrown in with the rest of the. With the rest of the group, even though they didn't take part in it. And it's also interesting that Shoeless Joe is not played the same way that Ray Liotta would play him in Field of Dreams. He's kind of played as his doof office, who maybe doesn't even know how to read. That's kind of, you know, guilted into joining this group without even knowing what's going on. It's just. It's a very nostalgic. And it's, you know, it has the. You get to see how they play and the love of the game and what they give up, all that stuff. So again, I. I watched it again today because I had time. I was like, this is great. It went by very fast. The second movie I have is Tin cup, another Ron Shelton movie. And again, it's one of my favorite Kevin Kosher performances because after Water World, how it just kind of. And Wyatt Earp, they kind of dragged. You know, you watch Kevin Costner in these things and you're kind of like, oh, man, what a. What a downer of an actor. You know, it's. He's not really fun, I guess, but in Tin cup, he's a lot of fun. It's great to see him really tap in to, you know, play. Play golf this time and everything, but. And I love how Renee Russo gets to play kind of the Susan Sarandon part where she gets to be sexy in a movie. There's a of lot of sexy stuff that happens, a lot of good flirting.
So again, it's a very fun movement. It has a very good. Have you two seen it? Have you two seen.
[02:34:54] Speaker A: Yes, yes, I've seen Cup. Yeah. Oh, you would like it, Sophia.
[02:34:58] Speaker B: I think I wanted to for this and it's. I'm going to like.
[02:35:02] Speaker C: It's highly recommend, but I. I don't want to ruin the ending for you, but the ending is very, very good, the way that it kind of spins things. But. And then for my third. Just a guilty pleasure. I love the replacements from. From 2000, 2000. Let's see. It's directed by Howard Deutsch, but it's just about this.
It's about this team that, you know, the. The may. The NFL goes on strike and so they have to bring in replacement players and Keanu Reeves is the quarterback that they bring in. Gene Hackman is the coach. It's one of those. Again, it's a misfit. It's like major league where it's a misfit game where they don't get along. And then they finally learn about quicksand and all the things that kind of, you know, hone you in as a, as a football player. They really play better and it's just very fun. It has all the great stuff where they get to mess with the other teams and stuff like that and finally win one in the end.
[02:35:48] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I haven't seen the Replacements, but I think you sold it to me. Like, yeah, I think I'm interested in seeing it now. I did not know it was Howard Deutsch. We love Howard Deutsch here because of some kind of wonderful. So, yep, yep.
[02:36:01] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Seriously, Tin cup and Replacements. If both of you, one of you haven't seen one or the other, seriously, go and you'll have a great time with it. I think they're great.
[02:36:10] Speaker A: Well, I think people could have a great time with all of these double features. I think we hit it out of the park today.
Wow.
You know, it's. Surprisingly few baseball puns have been wielded during this podcast, so we had to do one.
But yeah, no, it was so great having you on the show today, Darren. Can you remind people where they can find your projects and where they can look for you? You?
[02:36:33] Speaker C: Yeah, I am on Twitter at DW Lemberg. I'm also on Blue sky at BW Dwerg BSGuy Social. I'm on Facebook every now and then. I can't handle my family on there, but yeah, you can find Nostalgia Cast Link there. I've got Link Trees, the Nostalgia Cast Link Trees, the Back to Bluey. Back to Bluey's A BI Weekly show and again we take 7 minute cartoons and make 40 minute conversations at them. Can't help it, it's just where it goes. And then Nostalgia Character, we're doing our. We delve back into our 90s favorites. And so now we're. I think as I'm recording this, we're in the middle of 1993. We're taking four movies from each year of the 90s as a decade. And we're just talking about movies that we love and we've always wanted to talk about. So please come over and listen. We'd love to get some insight and some comments.
[02:37:18] Speaker A: Well, there are so many. The 90s has so many great movies. So I'm sure that's going to be a fantastic series overall. Yeah. Yeah. So that's great.
Coming up in our future on every rom com, we're going to be covering some more sports rom coms. We are going to be doing One Crazy Summer and Better Off Dead, which are a pair of John Cusack movies with the same director that you will not want to miss. We're going to be doing the cutting edge. Bend it like Beckham, bring it on, all kinds of things. So keep an eye out for that and, yeah, thank you, everybody, for listening and goodbye. Bye.
[02:37:51] Speaker C: Goodbye.
[02:37:52] Speaker A: Bye.
