[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Jen.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: I'm Sophia.
[00:00:03] Speaker C: I'm Jess.
[00:00:04] Speaker D: And I'm Alexia.
[00:00:06] Speaker A: And you're listening to Every Rom com, the podcast where we have fun taking romantic comedy seriously.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: This week on every rom com, we're continuing our LA Stories series with one of the highest grossing romantic comedies of all time.
[00:00:19] Speaker C: We'll explore the Los Angeles neighborhoods of Hollywood Boulevard and Beverly Hills.
[00:00:25] Speaker D: We'll talk about the films, hit music and iconic costumes.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: We'll discuss the way sex work has been portrayed in American cinema.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: And we'll talk about the careers of Richard Gere and Garry Marshall as we discuss the 1990 Rom com classic Pretty Woman.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: So I'm really happy to be back here on every rom com with you, Sophia.
And I'm really glad to welcome a guest, a returning guest again too, who is Jess from Body Literati, who has been on our episodes of the Preacher's Wife and the Music Man. And for the first time, Jess, I think we have you on a film that is somewhat related to your podcast.
[00:01:30] Speaker C: Yes.
So happy to be back. Thank you so much for having me. Very excited to be back on every rom com and talking about one of my favorite movies ever. So very, very excited for this.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: Wow. I didn't even realize it was one of your favorite movies. That's great. Okay, so this will be, you'll. You'll have a lot of knowledge about this. And I was going to say this is sort of more related to your podcast because it's a little sexier than the other movies we covered together. And also, didn't you have like a billionaires series on your podcast as well?
[00:02:00] Speaker C: We did, yes, we did. Especially in season one and season two with a former co host, Aza, we did a bunch of billionaire stories, especially 50 Shades of Gray. So if you're interested in hearing about that, please go back and listen to Body Literati on Spotify is where you can find our archive. But yes, we have talked ad nauseam on Bodily Literati about billionaires and the problematic tropes sometimes that come with billionaire stories.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Nice. And like, for our listeners who haven't heard about Body Literati before, can you just like introduce a little bit about what your podcast is about? And then in a second, we're also going to introduce your new co host. But first I just want to hear just, just remind our listeners what you all do there.
[00:02:43] Speaker C: Yeah. Thanks so much. So Body Literati is a podcast that talks about fiction, that fucks. We talk about stories of romantic and erotic fiction and kind of just BS and talk through the Story and either really dump on it super hard or say how much we love it. Usually me says how much I love it and go on just about how much erotica and romance is centered in not just my own personal life, but in a lot of people's lives nowadays. It seems a really hot genre now. And so, yeah, check us out. We're, like I said, we're on Spotify.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm so excited.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: We've.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: We've had some podcasts with your former co host, Aza, and now you've got a new co host named Alexia, who we've just been able to meet today. Jess and Alexia, like, how did you two meet and how did you decide to work on the podcast together?
[00:03:38] Speaker D: Um, how did we meet 10 years ago? Over 10 years ago now at a public library.
We were both part timers and we just kind of connected over the years, like randomly, like, oh, hey, I worked with you. Let's go watch some weird midnight movies. And we've both been in the library field for, I know, quite a while now.
[00:04:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I think you've been a little bit longer than I have, Alexia, because I graduated from library school in 2017, so I think you are already maybe like the year before or two years before.
[00:04:14] Speaker D: I graduated in 2017 also.
[00:04:16] Speaker C: Oh, okay. Well, then there we go. So alumni 2017 of library school. Yay. Go us.
But yeah, you know, Alexia and I have known each other for a really long time, and I think a lot of why I wanted to have Alexia on as the new co host of Body Literati was because last season I did Body Literati Soto because Aza no longer wanted to be a part of the podcast because she was off doing her amazing things in her. In her life and getting established and stuff like that. And so as I was working through the theme last year, which I did three episodes last season I did of Netflix movies and then I did three books of African American authors. And Alexia was the only guest that I had on last season. And we just clicked so well in that episode. And just in general, Alexia and I have a lot of very similar interests and she definitely was somebody that I wanted to work a little bit more with and felt that this was a really good platform to introduce and bring her on to because she has some amazing takes on erotica and romance that I think Body Literati audience would be very pleased to hear.
[00:05:34] Speaker D: Oh, thank you. That was the best intro ever.
Honestly, I think I just hyper focus on like two things and then I bring it up multiple times.
So it's really fun to talk about books with you and just tear it apart. And then I get to hyper focus on something with someone else. So it's kind of fun.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: And Alexia, which part of Body Literati would you lean more towards? Do you lean more towards the erotica or the romance side or are you equal?
[00:06:05] Speaker D: I'm pretty equal. So this new season, season four is dark romance, which is my genre. I love dark Roman.
It's chaotic and unhinged and I love it.
But yeah, I just, I like both. So the thing I like about romance books are the tension. And then once the tension's gone, I'm like, oh, this book sucks. Now to the next one.
So I do like the romance part and the build up and then I do like the erotica part. Like I feel like if there's no erotica, I feel like I'm missing something. I'm like, oh, what happened? I need more details.
So I don't read a lot of closed door romances.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Interesting. I don't even know that term that's interesting is that that just means that you're not seeing the sex scenes essentially.
[00:06:57] Speaker D: Yeah. So I've seen it called closed door because it like fades to black. So it's like, oh, and things are happening, shut the door, next chapter type of thing. And I've seen that used a lot because I know a lot of closed door romances is what they're calling it now that they're trying to ban them in some states.
[00:07:18] Speaker A: And so you were on Body Literati as a guest and then have you been podcasting before or how did you decide that you were like into podcasting?
[00:07:27] Speaker D: I still don't know. So this would be my first season.
First I've been on one episode and I was just having fun with it. So I don't even know how it went.
So we'll see how season four goes.
[00:07:42] Speaker C: I think it's going to be great. Very excited.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to say I'm sure you'll do great. So yeah, I'm excited to hear you with a new co host.
Of course. I love listening to you with Aza, but this is cool. Breaking some new ground here.
And when people are first on every rom com, I do like to ask them. So Alexia, I will ask you, what are a few of your favorite rom coms?
[00:08:04] Speaker D: Hands down, the Mummy.
There's something about the Mummy. Is that considered rom com?
[00:08:11] Speaker A: Yes. You know it won the rom com bracket on Twitter one year. There's a thing that they used to do on Twitter, rom com Bracket. Not really as active anymore because, well, you know, what happened to Twitter? But yeah, the Mummy won one year. So definitely many people agree with you.
[00:08:26] Speaker D: The Mummy, it has everything I want from a movie, so. And everyone's really hot in that movie. Everybody. Even, like, the weird brother. I'm like, that's not. It's not terrible.
[00:08:37] Speaker E: So.
[00:08:37] Speaker D: And then there's a librarian in it, and there's action and there's some, like, suspense. I love that movie.
And then I'd have to say practical magic. I could watch that movie over and over, like you. I don't like musicals, but there's something about, like, a witchy dance montage that I absolutely love.
I love Sandra Bullock.
I don't know. I absolutely love that movie.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Have you read the book?
[00:09:06] Speaker D: I haven't.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: I recommend the book as well.
[00:09:09] Speaker D: I'm gonna have to try that.
I'm surprised. I haven't.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: I knew Sofia would be into that. Sophia's like, yes, my people.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it's up there. It's up there on my fave list. I've, like, watched it to death. I enjoy it very much. And the book is. I is great too.
[00:09:28] Speaker A: So we talked a little bit about your favorite rom coms, and now I want to ask Jess and you both, like, what are some of your favorite LA based rom coms or other movies? Since we're in our LA series, I.
[00:09:41] Speaker C: Think one of my favorite shows is LA based shows is the Closer with Kara Sedgwick. That is such a good TV show. So that definitely is one. And then movies. I mean, Jerry Maguire, like, can we. Can. Can. Can we go wrong with. I mean, we can go wrong, but definitely is one of my. My other all time favorite L A based rom coms. And then obviously, if you have to pin me down, Grease, obviously, is another technically L A based rom com that I absolutely cherish and is another one of my favorite movies of all time. My mom was a huge John Travolta fan growing up, so he was everywhere in our house.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Mine too. High five. Yes.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: And any for you, Alexia.
[00:10:33] Speaker D: So this one's a tough one for me because I don't really look at location that much, so that's fair enough. I don't know.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: So, yeah. So before we get done with our intro here, though, I want to find out from you, Jess and Alexia, like, when are we going to start seeing some of your new episodes together? And where can people look for you?
[00:10:55] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks for asking. So we have plans to start releasing episodes in May, so end of May is when you will expect the season 4 episode 1 of Bodi Literati that will be available on Spotify. So we are available on Spotify and then also we do have an Instagram handle. It is Body Literati. B A W D Yes. L I T E R A T I is our handle on Instagram. So follow us on Instagram to get updates about the podcast and then listen to us on Spotify.
[00:11:32] Speaker A: Nice. And I will put all this information also in the show notes so you can go and check them out. Awesome.
So before we get started today, just a few notes about our podcast. So listen to this one closely, everyone. First, unlike most of our episodes, this episode is not going to have a spoiler free section. And this is because a lot of the interesting facts, facts about this film that I'm going to tell you about have to do with the film's original ending. And it's kind of hard to, you know, talk about the differences with the original ending if you're not going to talk about the ending. So there you go.
So if you haven't seen Pretty Woman, if you're one of like the 12 people who haven't seen Pretty Woman and don't want to be spoiled, I recommend watching the movie first.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: And we'd also like to remind you that you can follow the podcast on social media. Our Facebook page is every rom com podcast and blog.
Our Instagram is very romcom. Our Twitter handle is at Every Romcompod. And you can also find us on Blueskyveryromcom.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: And as always, you can find the
[email protected] send us
[email protected] and if you like what you hear, please rate and review and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: And if you'd like to help support the show financially, you can visit our Buy me a coffee
[email protected] every rom com. All donations go towards producing the show.
And now let's get into this episode by listening to the trailer of Pretty Woman.
[00:13:03] Speaker F: Welcome to Hollywood.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Everybody comes to Hollywood got a dream.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: What's your dream?
[00:13:08] Speaker F: When I was a little girl, I would pretend I was a prince Princess trapped in the tower. And then this night on a white horse will come charging up and rescue me.
[00:13:19] Speaker G: Tell me how to get to Beverly Hills.
[00:13:20] Speaker F: Sure.
[00:13:21] Speaker G: For five bucks you can't charge me for directions.
[00:13:24] Speaker F: I can do anything I want to, Baby, I ain't lost.
[00:13:26] Speaker G: All right. Okay, you have changed for 20.
[00:13:29] Speaker F: For 20 I'll show you Personal.
[00:13:36] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:13:37] Speaker G: Impressed?
[00:13:37] Speaker F: You kidding me? I come here all the time.
Well, color me happy. There's a sofa in here for two.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: Close your mouth, dear.
[00:13:45] Speaker G: Who is this girl here?
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Does she work?
[00:13:47] Speaker G: She's in sales.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Touchstone Pictures presents the Story of A Date.
[00:13:50] Speaker G: This isn't a date. It's business. That led to a deal. I have a business proposition for you. I'm going to be in town until Sunday. I'd like you to spend the week with me. That's becoming a dream come true.
Time to shop.
Get rid of your gum.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: All right.
[00:14:07] Speaker G: I don't believe you did that. You're going to be spending an obscene amount of money in here. So we're going to need a lot more help sucking up to us because that's what we really like. You understand me? Sir, if I may say so, you're in the right store and the right city, for that matter.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: They're two people who have no business being together. Everybody is trying to land him.
[00:14:25] Speaker F: Well, I'm not trying to land him. I'm just using him for sex.
[00:14:28] Speaker G: Just doing a little business. Company I'm buying this week, I'm getting for the bargain price of about 1 billion.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: A billion dollars?
[00:14:35] Speaker F: Their folks must be really proud, huh?
[00:14:37] Speaker A: Everything was going their way.
Well done.
Well done.
[00:14:42] Speaker C: Walk, walk, walk until.
[00:14:44] Speaker G: I don't want you to go.
[00:14:45] Speaker F: You hurt me.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Yes. Don't do it again. Something unexpected happened.
[00:14:50] Speaker G: What the hell is wrong with you this week?
[00:14:52] Speaker D: You fell in love with him.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: Did I not teach you anything?
[00:14:54] Speaker F: Look, I'm not stupid, okay? I'm. I'm not in love with them.
[00:14:57] Speaker G: They can find you an apartment and get you a car.
[00:14:59] Speaker C: I want more.
[00:15:00] Speaker F: I want the fairy tale.
[00:15:02] Speaker G: I think you are a very special woman.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: All right, so Pretty Woman came out March 23, 1990, and it was written by J.F. lawton and directed by Gary Marshall. Starring Julia Roberts and Richard Gere.
[00:15:20] Speaker C: The basic premise of Pretty Woman is Vivian is a prostitute working on Hollywood Boulevard with her friend Kit. One night, rich New York businessman Edward Lewis gets lost on Hollywood Boulevard and asks Vivian for directions. Since he's having difficulty operating his borrowed car stick shift, he lets her drive the car back to his hotel in Beverly Hills. At the hotel, Edward impulsively hires Vivian for the night.
Then the next day, he asked her to stay with him for the week for the negotiated price of $3,000.
At the same time, Edward is planning a hostile takeover of a family company.
As the week progresses, Edward and Vivian learn more about each other and begin to fall in love.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: There's a lot of information available about Pretty Woman, so I'm going to try to make it.
I'm going to try to summarize it, but honestly, there is so much. A lot of the information in this section is actually going to come from a Netflix show called the Movies that Made Us Their Season two. Episode two, which was about Pretty Woman, just has a lot of great material and I recommend it if you're a big fan of the film. Have any of you seen that episode, by the way?
[00:16:30] Speaker B: No.
[00:16:32] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I have.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: So just knows. Just you'd be like, I know that. I heard that.
[00:16:37] Speaker C: I actually love this series. Like, I binge watch it every time a new season comes out. So I'm patiently waiting for the next season of the Movies that Made Us to come out. So. But yes, I have seen this one.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: So a lot of the episode. A lot of the Movies that Made Us episode focused on the writer J.F. lawton and how his original idea for a grittier, downbeat romance evolved into a romantic comedy when Disney decided to buy the movie for their adult division, Touchstone Pictures.
So Laughton lived near Hollywood boulevard in the 80s, and he wrote at Winchell's donut house. And he talked with many of the prostitutes who worked near the donut shop.
How he got the idea for Pretty Woman is a woman. A woman who was working on the street who he met, told him about being picked up and taken to Vegas for a week and put up in a luxury hotel. That inspired his original version of the script titled 3000.
And why was it called 3000?
[00:17:32] Speaker B: Because it's what they negotiate. Vivian and Edward negotiate the price of her staying with a. With him for a week.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: Exactly.
So J.F. lawton also decided to add a corporate rating element to the script. And in the original script, we find out that Vivian is working the streets partially because corporate raiders like Edward have caused her family to fall into poverty.
So, yeah, kind of. Kind of, yeah, kind of a moral to the story.
Now, in the original ending, this is where the spoilers are starting, everybody. So really, I'm warning you, get off the train now if you don't want to be spoiled.
In the original ending of the movie, Vivian and Edward do not get together at the end of the movie, but instead, he leaves her the money, which she initially throws back at him, but then scoops up off the street and uses to take her friend Kit to Disneyland.
And the original script, Kit and Vivian were also both using drugs to some extent.
So that was. It was definitely like a gritty version of the story.
I can imagine this movie. Like, there were certainly a lot of movies like that in the 80s, but it was. It's a totally different creature. Right?
[00:18:38] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, completely agree. And I, you know, this, that, that original ending.
I don't. Yeah, I'm. I'm actually really glad that they changed that because that ending, I don't feel like it fits very well with the movie that they, that they tried to, to. To portray here.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like it's a. It's a completely different genre. Yeah.
So Gary Goldstein, who is a co producer of the film, was a manager at the time and, and he had encouraged Lawton to write a romance to shop around. Goldstein loved the original 3000 and began showing it to people. There was a lot of interest in the script and it was owned by another production company before Disney bought it. And this is why I'm bringing up Goldstein, because apparently he is the one who suggested both Julia Roberts and Richard Gere for the lead roles, which at the time was like, huge because Julia Roberts was like, basically unknown and Richard Gere was kind of in a slump. So, like, really, this man created so much of what makes this movie great, in my opinion.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: I mean, would you agree, like, do you think, like, I'm going to talk about in a second some of the other people who are considered for the cast, but I.
These two were like magic together.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: Totally like magic.
[00:19:55] Speaker C: Yeah. They have such good chemistry together. And it definitely.
I don't know if it would have worked with anybody else.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: So there were a lot of other people who were suggested for the roles. Apparently Gere wasn't initially interested in the movie, but Garry Marshall brought Julia Roberts to meet Richard Gere, and Julia Roberts is actually the one who convinced him to take the role because she was so charming. And she kind of clinched the deal by passing him a post it note that said, please say yes.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: So cute.
[00:20:28] Speaker C: So cute.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: It feels like you could imagine it happening too. Like it's such a Julia Roberts thing, right?
[00:20:35] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: So here are some of the other actors considered for both roles. So alternate Vivians included. This isn't even the whole list. Laura Dern, Demi Moore, Michelle Pfeiffer, Patricia Arquette, Marisa Tomei, and Diane Lane. And I heard Winona Ryder wanted it, but they considered her too young, which I'm like, good.
Like, wow.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: Wow, wow, wow.
[00:20:59] Speaker D: I can't imagine anyone else in that role that would be able to pull off the not so gentle quirkiness. I don't know how to Explain that.
Where, like, she just randomly starts, like, I don't know, like saying something really loud or kind of abrasive that you consider abrasive. And I can't picture anyone else doing that like she did.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Yeah, she definitely has a certain quality where she can get away with things that I think other actresses don't. I agree.
[00:21:27] Speaker D: Yeah. So like, when they're playing polo and she, like, goes like, woo, woo, like really quickly and, like, not so feminine. Like, I just can't picture anyone else doing that. I died at that scene.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: And then alternate potential Edwards included John Travolta, Denzel Washington, Daniel Day Lewis, Sting, Christopher Reeve, and Al Pacino. And Al Pacino actually read with Julia Roberts at one point and he said she was wonderful, but the picture wasn't for him. So, yeah, that would have also been interesting.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Wow.
Just completely different movie with any of these people coupled up.
[00:22:08] Speaker C: I agree. Yeah, it would have been interesting to see Denzel in this. But, you know, at that time, I know that interracial couples were not as prominent in, you know, media than now we see, but yeah, he would have brought a very interesting vibe. And Daniel Day Lewis. Oh, my God, like the method acting that would have went on in this, I feel like he probably would have just been so over the top with a lot of what he does with his acting that I don't know if it would have worked.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I can't imagine him and Julia Roberts together in the same scene either. They just seem like they're from two planet, different planets of acting.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: I mean, maybe if it were like that grittier version, you know?
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: But not this. Not this.
Happy rom com.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: So apparently one casting that really almost didn't happen. Gary Marshall apparently really did not want to cast Jason Alexander as the lawyer Stuckey. Alexander told the Netflix documentarians Marshall thought he was too short to act with Gere. And Alexander said, Marshall said something like, it'll look like he's beating up a dwarf for a scene where Alexander and Gear have a fight.
[00:23:33] Speaker C: That is hilarious.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: Apparently how he got the role is when they. When it came time to shoot, they had only cast six actors out of a total of 119.
And Alexander's persistence and Richard Gere's intervention ended up getting Alexander the role. And then subsequently he got his part on Seinfeld partly on the strength of having been cast in Pretty Woman. So good. Good job. Jason Alexander.
[00:23:57] Speaker C: Wow, that's amazing.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: I also want to shout out famous classic film actor Ralph Bellamy. He plays the owner of the company, Richard Gere's character is trying to take over in the film.
This was his last performance in a film career that spanned almost 60 years.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: Wow. That's a bit I hadn't known out of all, like, the trivia that's become such famous lore. And that was. This is new piece of information. Wow.
[00:24:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And. But I've been watching a lot more classic films lately, and Bellamy often plays, you know, the guy that doesn't get the girl in classic rom coms, so.
[00:24:32] Speaker C: Yeah, interesting.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: Okay.
Yeah. Many people may also recognize him from Trading Places, but I've now seen some of his. Yeah, I've now seen some of his younger era work too. Yeah.
The movie shot for 57 days beginning on July 24, 1989. And according to everyone interviewed in the movies that made us, the script was incomplete at the time filming began, and even throughout the shoot, like, the script would change. Lawton had completed several drafts, but they kept getting sent back for rewrites.
Marshall would have actors shoot several versions of each scene, ranging in tone from comic to dramatic, and he would have actors improvise lines or try different things, and even a prank ended up making the final cut. The scene where Edward shuts a jewelry box on Vivian's hand was not in the script, but they ended up keeping it because her reaction to having her hand shut in the jewelry box was so great. And that's like an iconic image, right from the movie.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:25:30] Speaker A: So Jason Alexander summed up the shooting process like, it was great fun, but it was complete mayhem.
So Disney execs are the ones who changed the title 3000 because they thought it sounded like a sci fi movie and they really wanted a song title for the movie title. So Jeffrey Katzenberg, the executive, came up with the idea to call it Pretty Woman.
Pretty Woman's budget was between 14 to 17 million, depending on sources I've read.
And as of 2024, Pretty Woman has grossed 460 million at the worldwide box office.
According to Hollywood Reporter, at the time of its release, it was the fifth highest grossing movie of all time.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: Pretty Woman was also the highest grossing rom com of all time at the time of its release. These days, like, it depends on the source. It's either at fourth behind my big frat, Greek Wedding, what Women Want in Hitch, or if you use the numbers.com for your source, it is second after the Chinese rom com, the Mermaid, which I have seen. The Chinese rom com, the Mermaid, by the way. It's very interesting.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:26:35] Speaker A: So Pretty Woman was nominated for a Golden Globe and Julia Roberts won a Golden Globe for her performance in the film. She was also nominated for the Best Actress Oscar, which I hadn't realized, actually.
Pretty Woman had a major impact on popular culture, both when it came out and for decades afterwards.
Some movies that reference it include Long Shot, which we covered on episode two of every rom com. She's all that Hot Frosty.
Have you guys seen that? Have you seen the. Did you see the Pretty Woman reference in Hot Frosty?
[00:27:06] Speaker B: Missed Hot Frosty. Whoops.
[00:27:09] Speaker D: I think I was distracted by snowman abs. I don't know.
[00:27:12] Speaker E: I missed it.
[00:27:14] Speaker C: It's there.
Yeah. I've only seen the trailer.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's not like a masterpiece, but it was. It was diverting. Yeah.
And the recent film Honora, which won the Oscar, also seems to have some Pretty Woman influence, in my opinion.
In 2018, Pretty Woman also was reimagined as a Broadway musical with music and lyrics by Bryan Adams and Jim Valance and a book by Gary Marshall and J.F. lawton. It ran on Broadway for a year and also has run as a touring production in several countries.
So, yeah, keeps on going.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: Fascinating.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: This is the part now where we're going to talk about our general opinion of the movie. And so what we usually do is we kind of say, like, when we. We kind of say, like, when we saw the movie, like, what we thought about at the time, maybe how our opinion of it has evolved over the years.
And yeah, Jess, because you said it's your favorite, I want to start with you, actually today.
[00:28:08] Speaker C: Yay. Yeah. So, as I said, I saw this movie.
It was probably pretty close to when it came out. And so I was probably in between the ages of 10 and 13 when I saw this movie, which I probably shouldn't have been watching this movie at that age, but, hey, you know, it was the 90s. Yeah. I remember loving this movie so much that I.
The scene still sticks in my head. The one that we were talking about, the impromptu one where she, you know, has her hand kind of like, you know, put into.
Into the box, and she has that laugh. Like, that is just like classic Julia Roberts like laugh. That is, she's so well known for. And so there's a lot of the scenes in this movie that have stuck with me. And I think that's one of the reasons why I like romance is because of movies like this. And, you know, watching it recently for this podcast, man, the soundtrack is so classic. Like, I've had those songs stuck in my head since I've watched this movie. And I Can't get them out of my head because they're such good songs that take me back to that era and that time.
But, yeah, I really loved Richard Gere. Like, my mom loved An Officer and a Gentleman, and we watched that quite a bit as well in my household.
So for me, this movie just brings me back to a time of, you know, my childhood and then also the possibility of finding love. You know, romantic fantasy, fairy tale love.
Yeah. So that's. That's. That's what I take away, and that's just what I loved about this particular movie.
[00:29:58] Speaker D: So I thought I had watched this movie because there's so many iconic scenes, but I don't think I've ever seen it before.
[00:30:06] Speaker G: Wow.
[00:30:07] Speaker D: So I think this was my first time. I don't watch a ton of rom coms. I tend to be, like, a horror fan, and I watch sci fi, so this is complete opposite, but I read a ton of romance, so I don't know.
I didn't like it at first.
Okay. Don't hate me.
[00:30:27] Speaker A: No, no, we're all great. Yeah, we're supportive. We are supportive of alternate opinions on the show, and it's very fascinating to have a newbie's perspective, too.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: So.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: So talk on, speak on.
[00:30:38] Speaker D: All right. I won't tear it apart too much, but I. It was kind of creepy at first because she's, what, 23?
Vivian's 23, and he's. He's got to be in his 40s, maybe.
[00:30:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:55] Speaker D: And then there were certain parts of her character in the beginning that were a little uncomfortable. It was very childlike.
So I like. And I know, like, towards the end, I. I liked it, but at the beginning, there was a lot of, like, childlike characteristics from Vivian, like the sitting on the floor and swinging her legs while she's watching a movie.
And the fidgeting part.
Now I like.
I enjoyed it towards the end, but at the beginning, it felt like something like a small child would do. And then he was always staring at her.
[00:31:32] Speaker E: There was so much staring.
[00:31:34] Speaker D: And I'm like, okay, I read books like this all the time. But then seeing it, I'm like, oh, no, I need to save her.
It could just be because I watch.
[00:31:46] Speaker E: Too many horror movies.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: No, no, no, that's true.
[00:31:50] Speaker B: It's true. At any turn, these rom coms can be horror.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Truly.
[00:31:55] Speaker D: It really could.
There is so much staring, and I did get, like, that tension, and you feel that, like, you feel that chemistry, but I'm like, I don't know where this chemistry is going, but towards the end, when they start developing their relationship a little bit more, I started enjoying that chemistry and enjoying their character development.
There was one big red flag I didn't like, though.
And it was when they got into a fight. It was like right after the polo thing.
And then he, like, yells at her to, like, get over here and listen to him while he's, like, talking to her. And I'm like, wait, red flag.
And like I said, I read books like this all the time, but it was weird seeing it and having just the childlike characteristics. But I did end up liking it towards the end because I do feel like it wasn't taking itself too seriously towards the end, like when he shows up in the limousine. And, like, I did like that quirkiness and she made me laugh quite a bit.
Overall, I enjoyed it.
There was just a little, like, creepiness towards the beginning.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: But no, you know, that's like. I think that's like a perfectly legitimate, like, you know, criticism too. And a lot of people, People over the years have. Critics critiqued this movie in various ways, which, towards the end of the show, we'll get to when we kind of talk about the way sex work, for example, is represented in the movie. So, yeah, there's a lot to go there. When you talk about the fidgeting too, it really, like, a lot of people will compare this movie to, like, My Fair lady, you know, and like, how Vivian has to be, like, kind of made over from, like a low class woman into, like a posh woman. Right.
And so, like, I think that's also probably what's trying to be at play there. But, yes, I can see where you're saying that it comes across as childhood, like, in a way too. For sure. Yeah.
[00:33:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:51] Speaker A: So, yeah. Sophia, do you want to tell your opinion or.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: Sure. I mean, I also was like, I don't know, 11, 12 years old watching this movie over and over and over and over again. And I had the tape of the soundtrack as well and all the songs over and over again.
So I, like, watched it to death. And I haven't watched it in years, so I almost was like, I don't, like, I kind of cringe. I'm like, everyone's like, oh, pretty Woman. I'm like, oh, God, I'm sick of it. Like, I watched it to death.
But, you know, I was pleasantly entertained. But I had a hard time not comparing it constantly to their second mashup in Runaway Bride.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And you're going to talk about Runaway Bride later in the episode.
[00:34:41] Speaker C: I am, yeah.
[00:34:44] Speaker A: So my journey with this film, like, this is the same thing with Love actually. Like, I didn't like Love actually when I first saw it, and I didn't like Pretty Woman when I first saw it. And then as the years went by, I liked both of those movies more and more, while the culture seemed to like them less and less.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: So it's like, what's going on with me here? Like, when I was. When I saw this movie, I probably was 13 also. And, like, I was like a very big feminist even when I was, like, a kid. Right.
And, like, I was just like, why is the only time we get to see women is like, you know, these super box office celebrities, they're a prostitute. Like, is there, like, no other image we can have of women and all this stuff? And I was very much, like, kind of bothered by it when I was young. I felt like I was starving to see good women, examples of, like, career women and, like, you know, women who are valued for their intellect, women who are valued for more than their appearance or their sex appeal.
So, yeah, when I first saw this when I was a kid, I was not impressed by it. But then I revisited it for some reason years later, and I liked it. And I was like, oh, wait, this is actually kind of a fun movie. Like, I don't need to take it that seriously. And then it became one of those movies that I would just watch now and again. And. And when I watched it this time, like, yeah, I've watched it three times to prep for the show, once with the commentary, and all the times I was entertained to some degree. I definitely see Vivian as a stronger character than I did when I was younger.
I don't think she's defined by her sex appeal. I mean, it's certainly why Julia Roberts is cast in the role. Probably has a lot to do with why the movie was made in the first place. But I think Julia Roberts brings so much charisma and strength to the role as well.
Yeah, I do like the movie now. I think it's very well written, which is funny to say because it apparently was cobbled together, but I like the way that it gives them so much time to get to know each other in the beginning of the movie. And I also like that there's sex in the movie. Okay.
[00:36:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:37] Speaker A: Like, I like rom coms with a bit of sex in them. It's much more close to the reality of how I've, you know, fallen in love with people. Like, it's usually not a sexless operation.
Yeah. But anyway, Yeah, I will not go on. I have. We'll leave more time for other things later.
So now we're going to talk a little bit about the cast and crew of the movie. So first of all, we already covered Julia Roberts in our every rom com episode 37 on My Best Friend's Wedding. So for more information on Julia Roberts career, I would recommend checking out that episode.
Now we're going to talk about Richard Gere.
So Richard Gere, born August 31, 1949 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and grew up in Syracuse, New York. He attended the University of Massachusetts at Amherst for two years before dropping out to pursue music and acting.
Now Greece is coming into the situation again. He was an understudy in Greece on Broadway in 1972, and he later played Danny Zuko in the London production of Grease.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: I'm shocked.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: There's.
[00:37:43] Speaker D: I need to look a picture. I need a picture.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: I think one of the late night hosts recently did an interview with him and they showed a video of him. I think it was Colbert brought out a video of him doing Danny Zuko. So if you want to see that.
[00:37:56] Speaker B: Oh, I do, yeah.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: So he continued theater work even after he started appearing in movies, which included starring as a gay Holocaust victim in the Broadway production of Bent in 1979, which, you know, at the time like, you know, portraying a gay character was a bigger deal than it is now.
And some of his early feature film roles were in looking for Mr. Goodbar, days of Heaven, American Gigolo, and Jess's Mother's Favorite, An Officer and a Gentleman.
[00:38:28] Speaker C: Oh, so good. It's so good.
[00:38:31] Speaker A: So some of his other movies before Pretty Woman included the Cotton Club, a remake of the movie Breathless and Internal Affairs.
Some of Gere's other movies in the 90s included Summersby, first Night and Primal Fear. And of course, as Sofia mentioned, in 1999, he closed out the decade by re teaming with Julia Roberts and Garry Marshall on another rom com, Runaway Bride.
And Gere took on a variety of genres. In the 2000s. He made more romantic dramas, including Unfaithful Nights in Rodin, both with Diane Lane, and Autumn in New York with Winona Ryder. He appeared in the romantic comedy Shall We Dance? With Susan Sarandon and Jennifer Lopez. And of course, he got his most acclaim for his starring role in the musical Chicago, which won him a Golden Globe in 2003.
Some of his other 2000s movies included the Mothman, Prophecies, I'm Not There, and A Dog's Tale.
Gere continued appearing in movies in the 2010s and 2020s, including Arbitrage, The Second Best Exotic, Marigold, Hotel Norman and O Canada.
In 2023, he appeared in the dark romantic comedy maybe I Do alongside Diane Keaton, Susan Sarandon and William H. Macy. And interestingly, Emma Roberts, who's Julia Roberts's niece, plays his daughter in that movie.
And most recently, Gere has been appearing in the Paramount plus show the Agency and the movie Longing co starring Diane Kruger.
So everybody pretty much knows that Gere's a Buddhist too, right?
[00:40:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:40:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I think he's almost as famous for being like a prominent Buddhist as he is for his acting.
He became a Buddhist in the 70s and he's actually a student of the Dalai Lama.
He's been involved for decades with the movement for Tibetan independence.
He is one of the founders of the nonprofit organization Tibet House, which seeks to preserve Tibetan culture. And he's also the longtime chair of the board of directors of the International Campaign for Tibet.
He also runs his own foundation, the GEAR foundation, which, among other things, sponsors the publishing and translation of Buddhist books as well as sponsoring Buddhist teachings around the world.
Now this I did not know. In 1993, he received a 20 year ban from attending the Academy Awards when he asked the leader of China to withdraw Chinese troops from Tibet and allow the Tibetan people to live as free and independent people.
[00:40:57] Speaker B: Whoa. Did not know that either.
What a weird thing to be banned from the Academy Awards for.
[00:41:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I feel like any of the headlines I've ever seen Richard Gere in, it's usually about either his Buddhism or his outspokenness about Tibet and kind of their struggle to be an independent country.
[00:41:18] Speaker D: I did not know any of this. So this is really fun because I never get a chance to dig deep into movies. Like, I watch it and then I'm like, okay, that was cool.
[00:41:27] Speaker A: And then I move on.
[00:41:29] Speaker D: So this is all new information to me. I never look deep into, like, celebrities or anything. So I'm really enjoying all these facts about Richard Gere.
[00:41:40] Speaker A: That's good. And I think Gere is actually one of the most interesting actors in terms of the ones I've researched for the show, just because he has this other life, you know, that's running alongside his acting, something he cares very deeply about.
Yeah. And I'll just add that in addition to his work with Tibet, he's also been involved with charity work for HIV and aids.
And in addition to all that, he's also a musician. He plays the piano, the guitar, and he writes music. And in the movie when he plays the piano, that's him playing the piano. In terms of his personal life, he's been married three times. He was married to supermodel Cindy Crawford for a few years in the 90s. In 2002, he married model and actress Carrie Lowell. They stayed together for 11 years and have a son, Homer. And finally in 2018, he married activist Alejandra Silva, with whom he has two sons and she also has a son from a previous marriage. And in 2024, Gear moved to Spain with Silva to raise their kids in her native country. So he is left the United States and kind of jealous.
Yeah.
Anyway, that's, that's Richard Gere. A lot of stuff I learned about him and it mostly improved my opinion of him, I would say. Like, I knew that he was involved in Buddhism, but I didn't realize he'd like, suffered like some, some consequences from speaking out and so forth.
[00:43:00] Speaker B: So coming up is the director, Gary Marshall.
He was born in the Bronx, New York on November 13, 1934. He is the brother to actress director Penny Marshall, whom he covered on Every Rom com episode 51 in the Preacher's Wife. Marshall initially studied at Northwestern and began his career in journalism, then in 1960 started working as a TV writer for shows including the Tonight show, the Dick Van Dyke show, and the Lucy show, which was a follow up to I Love Lucy.
It's in the 70s that we get into the work that Marshall became most famous for as a creator, producer, director of. Yes. The Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley. Yes, Sister Penny Marshall is Laverne and Mork and Mindy. Yes, I watched all those shows.
[00:43:50] Speaker C: All of them, like Vernon Shirley was my show. I loved both of them. And Penny Marshall, like, had me dying in that show. I loved that show.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: Marshall's featured directing debut was for the parody Young Doctors in Love in 1982, which he did not write.
And then in 1984, Marshall wrote and directed the much better known the Flamingo Kids, starring Matt Dillon.
Marshall directed three more feature films before Pretty Woman. They were Nothing in Common Overboard and Beaches.
Marshall followed up Pretty Woman by directing Frankie and Johnny with Michelle Pfeiffer and Al Pacino and then Exit to Eden in 1994.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: Dana Delaney and Paul Mercurio are very hot in that movie. And while it is very. It bears very little resemblance to the Anne Rice erotic novel, but it's like, it's, it's such a weird, like, pastiche with like, Rosie o' Donnell and Dan Aykroyd showing up as like the comic relief and like, totally breaking up the erotic vibes. Intermittently.
I don't know. Someday we are covering Exit to Eden on this show. So just, just, you know, if anyone's interested.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: I am. I am interested.
Well, he went on during the 90s to also direct Dear God, the Other Sister and Runaway Bride.
In 2001, Marshall directed the first of the two Princess Diary movies.
His other 2000 films were Raising Helen, Georgia Rule and Princess Diaries 2.
In the 2010s he directed three ensemble holiday films, Valentine's Day, New Year's Eve and Mother's Day.
Marshall also has 88 acting credits on IMDb from 1961 to 2016.
Some are for smaller roles, but some are more recognizable, such as his appearance in his sister Penny Marshall's film A League of Their Own.
In Pretty Woman, Marshall appears as a man on the street who talks to Richard Gere before he meets Julia Roberts and apparently is seen sweeping the street at one point.
Gary Marshall married his wife Barbara in 1963 and they had three children together, Scott, Laurie and Kathleen.
Yes, Kathleen Marshall appeared in most of her father's movies and plays a desk clerk in the Beverly Wilshire and Pretty Woman.
Marshall co wrote two memoirs with his daughter Lori, Wake Me When It's Funny in 1995 and My Happy Days in Hollywood in 2012.
Garry Marshall became friends with actor Hector Elizondo in the early 80s and Elizondo has appeared in every one of Marshall's films.
Marshall died in 2016 at the age of 81 of complications from pneumonia following a stroke. According to Los Angeles Magazine.
After his death, Julia Roberts gave a moving tribute to Marshall as quoted in the Hollywood Reporter saying, to know Gary Marshall was to love him. And I was luckier than most to have loved him for my entire adult life and luckier still to have been loved by him because his love was unconditional, inexhaustible and magical.
On a recent appearance on the Tonight show with Jimmy Fallon, Richard Gere said, gary Marshall was one of the nicest, funniest, most generous, loving people I ever met. This movie Pretty Woman was really him. It was his humor, his sensibility, his love of life and love of people was in that movie. Aw, he does. He's such a good reputation. And yeah, the people who work with him just obviously loved him and kept coming back because you do you see the same people in his films. And I think that that says something.
[00:47:40] Speaker A: I gotta say too, like I don't know if any of you have access to the DVD, but I have the 15th anniversary DVD of Pretty Woman and like there's A commentary track with Gary Marshall. And it is. It just the way he does commentary is so funny and cute and, like, he does this thing where, like, every time he mentions someone from the Caster crew, he tells you about their family, too. And he's like, oh, he's got a lovely wife, Marshall, and they've got the two kids. And, like, it's great.
It's like, you could really tell he cares so much about family because when he introduces people, he always tells you about their family too.
[00:48:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I definitely feel like Gary Marshall, when he passed away in 2016, was one of those, you know, directors and actors that everybody had a lot of really great things happening to say or that they felt that he was one of the tent pole directors in their lifetime that really brought movies to the screen in a way that was authentic and real and just really touched on a lot of different topics. And so just looking through all of this, it makes a lot of sense that, you know, he had such a wide reach and such a loving kind of like, community around him because he was such a good person.
[00:48:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
So some other important cast and crew in the film. Laura San Giacomo plays Vivian's friend and roommate Kit DeLuca. Jason Alexander, as we said, plays Edward's lawyer Philip Stuckey. Ralph Bellamy plays company owner James Morse. Hector Elizondo plays hotel manager Barney Thompson. And I wanted to shout out as well, two female crew members, costume designer Marilyn Vance, and a special shout out to editor Priscilla Ned Friendly, who worked with a film where the dailies didn't match the script. And I have to imagine that was a challenge for an editor. Oh, yeah, geez.
So props to her. I'm sure she had a lot to do with the success of the final movie as well.
All right, let us now get into the movie. So the opening of the film introduces us to Vivian and Edward as characters in their environments just before they collide. And it introduces Hollywood Boulevard as a setting. And what are your thoughts, everyone, on the opening of this film?
[00:49:57] Speaker C: I found the opening to be quite interesting because, like, the first thing you hear is that that man that shouts out, what's your dream? Right. Like, what. What do you come to Hollywood for? And the song, song that opens up this movie, King of wishful thinking.
This is the song that's been stuck in my head for literally weeks and weeks and weeks. And it such an interesting song because it places you at least it places me back in that time in the early 90s. Right. Like when the possibilities were endless in some respects. And that's that's kind of what I feel like when I started watching this, I was just like, oh, man.
[00:50:42] Speaker A: I want to piggyback on what you said about the song King of Wishful Thinking, because it's a breakup song. And then at the end of the movie, we get It Must have Been Love, which is another breakup song. So this is a rom com that is bookended by two breakup songs that became these big hit songs that we associate with the movie. Yeah, I think that's really interesting. And King of Wishful Thinking is also very specifically associated with Edward's character. It's playing over his kind of driving. Whereas then it plays that, you know, she's a Real wild one.
Like that song when we see Julia Roberts. So they're getting kind of like little theme musics, too.
[00:51:18] Speaker D: I think the one thing that bugged me with the opening was that you couldn't. They didn't really show Vivian's face.
Like, they just showed her body and her getting dressed. And then, like, Edward, they're really setting it up on, like, how rich he is. And I wish I wrote down specifics, but they just kept emphasizing, like, he's very wealthy. He's very wealthy.
And then Vivian, you don't really see her face until she's, like, digging in the toilet or, like.
[00:51:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:48] Speaker E: Heading out the door.
[00:51:49] Speaker D: Like.
[00:51:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Getting her money. Trying to find rent money in the toilet. One thing, too, about that opening where we just see bits and pieces of her while she's getting dressed. If you watch the opening sequence of Pretty in Pink with Molly Ringwald getting ready and then watch this opening sequence, they are remarkably similar.
[00:52:08] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:52:11] Speaker C: Interesting.
[00:52:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Check it out. Check it out. After the show. Check it out and tell me what you think. But, yeah, I don't know what that means. But, you know, it's like they. I think Hollywood did to a certain extent, like, scenes of women getting dressed and we see their leg disembodied from the rest of them first. Whatever that means, you know?
[00:52:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I. I also, at the beginning of this, like, I.
So I've lived with my partner, my husband, for. Since I was 18 years old, but to have a roommate like Kit, I feel like I would be so upset and pissed off all the time because she stole the rent money. Like, come on, man. Like, like, I know that's the trope of, like, a lot of movies. Like, you know, you need rent money or something's going on with your money and you need to go. But to have, like, your roommate take your money for, you know, drugs and, like, all of that stuff is just wild. And I even wrote in my notes, her roommate is trash. Like, I was just like, this is so bad. Like, oh, what a terrible situation to be in and have a shitty roommate.
[00:53:20] Speaker A: It's like, not that it makes it that much better, but I think it's. It's stated at some point in the movie that, like, Vivian came to live with Kit. And, like, so it's kind of Kit's place, but still. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? It's still not great.
[00:53:32] Speaker D: Is Kit the one that kind of got her into being a prostitute?
[00:53:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:38] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: And we also get. Okay, so at the opening of the movie, we also get, like, what could have easily turned this into a thriller, you know, or horror movie. Instead of. There's actually this little throwaway moment where.
Throwaway moment. That's a terrible thing to say in reference to this, where we find out that a. One of the prostitutes they work with, like, on the same street, has been found dead in a dumpster. And, like. Yeah, like, a little Hank Azaria cameo there, too.
[00:54:05] Speaker C: Oh, my God. Yeah.
[00:54:08] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:54:09] Speaker A: But, like. Yeah, but this is, like, a lot. One of the big tropes, though, that we see, you know, prostitutes, prostitution in film is they're often represented as victims. Right. And. And I mean, in real life, too. Like, their criminal statistics indicate that they're one of the most endangered professions. But, you know, it's very. It's very. I don't understand completely why they put this bit of, you know, kind of horror or threat at the beginning of the movie. Like, do any of you have thoughts on that?
[00:54:34] Speaker B: Well, a holdover from when it was called 3,000 and a little grittier.
I wonder. And two, you know, to casts this light that she really wants to get out of this life, I would guess.
[00:54:51] Speaker C: Yeah. And it feels like they tried to play this for laughs as to be, too, because. Right. Because when Hank Azaria is talking, like, he turns around, there's people, like, taking pictures. And he was just like, what the hell is going on here? And there's like, we're from Florida or something like that. The couple says, but, yeah, I found that kind of jarring. But again, it is a good juxtaposition of just kind of, like, the dangers. But they don't lean into any of that and talk about that.
[00:55:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:20] Speaker D: So it feels like they sprinkled in a little bit of her profession to kind of remind us of, like, her job. Right. Because, like, I don't want to get too ahead of ourselves, but they sprinkled in little tiny reminders.
Oh, yeah. This is just a hazard of working this job. And then later on, it's like a tiny little moment where they sprinkle in a little more info. You're like, oh, yeah, I forgot, she's a prostitute. Like, you're getting sucked into the. The romance.
[00:55:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And I am gonna get a little bit ahead of myself. I was gonna wait to say this later, but, like, I find something very interesting about this film is that this is one of the only films representing a woman working as a prostitute where we never see her with any other client. Like, even just, like, talking to any other client.
Like, Julia Roberts's character is kept completely separate from the world of prostitution, except for with Richard Gere in this film. And Richard Gere is also, like, seemingly, this might be the first time he's hired a prostitute. So it's kind of like a film about prostitution where they're kind of, like, pretending it isn't in a way. You know what I mean? It's like. It would be a very different tone, I think, in some ways, if you saw her in a montage. Right. Like leaning into some other cars, for example, you know?
[00:56:37] Speaker B: Right.
Yeah.
[00:56:40] Speaker A: Anyway, I think it would take the.
[00:56:41] Speaker D: Romance out of the movie.
[00:56:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:56:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:44] Speaker A: And that's interesting. Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. And what it tells us, too, though, about, like, you know, what women are allowed to be and also have romance. So we can talk more about that when we talk about sex work in movies later. But, yeah, just wanted to put that in.
Okay. So the next section of the movie is when Edward and Vivian meet and end up in the car together. Largely because Edward has gotten lost in the Hollywood Boulevard area and he can't drive stick shift. He borrowed Stuckey's car to get out of the party with the rich people that he didn't want to be at for some reason.
So how. Any feelings about this part where they're just in the car together before they get to the hotel?
[00:57:24] Speaker D: It just felt very uncomfortable, which I feel like added more authenticity to that scene because I was uncomfortable. It just didn't. The conversation was awkward.
But this is the first time they met. And some of the, I guess, lack of conversation, which is something that I enjoyed about this movie. You mentioned it earlier that there's a lot of breathing room and that some. That's a big issue I have with movies today is that they fill the space with music and, like, editing. Like, now, like, watching this movie and having a lot of awkward silence made me uncomfortable and feel Awkward.
[00:58:08] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:58:09] Speaker D: So, like, there was a lot of that awkward silence and just them staring at each other.
And then the straightforwardness of the conversation, it felt kind of choppy, but that felt like a natural conversation you would have with someone you just met.
[00:58:24] Speaker C: So this also is kind of weird because, like, she just gropes the man, like, in the car.
[00:58:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:58:30] Speaker C: You know, and maybe that's just like the thing that with prostitutes that at that time, we just, like, fill in the package in order to kind of see, like, what's happening, but just straight out gropes him and he's just like, oh, you know, like, type of thing. So I. I found that to be, as Alexis said, just this whole interaction was awkward. But it made sense with. He's very. He's just very business, like, straight to the point.
[00:58:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I want to mention about the groping. So the groping comes about. They're talking about. He asks her. He does the first thing where he kind of alludes to maybe he might hire her. Okay. I think, like, that might be what leads to the groping too, because he asks her, like, what do girls, like you charge these days? Days? And she says, $100 an hour. And he basically says, pretty stiff. And then she reaches over and gropes him and says, well, no, but it's got potential. So, like, I mean, I didn't even understand what that meant when I first saw this movie, Young Innocent, that I was at the time watching it later, I was like, damn, they really went there with that line.
Yeah, but it's, you know, like, what. This is one of those signs that we are dealing with prostitution here. Right? This is. Is not just like your average rom com. Like, this is not like some klutzy journalist and, you know, the guy that she met at the cafe. So, yeah.
Okay, so I'm going to tell just a little bit about Hollywood boulevard in the 80s and today.
So obviously, J.F. lawton lived in Hollywood Boulevard while he was writing the movie, and he was inspired by talking to actual prostitutes who worked in the area.
I found a contemporary article about Hollywood Boulevard From January of 1988, the Los Angeles Times, which had the headline, Staying alive for Hollywood's castoff Teens selling themselves is more and more a matter of simple survival.
And I'm not going to go into huge detail about this, but it was basically an article about how prostitution in the area had been a problem.
It had sort of largely moved into other areas at the time. They'd reduced crime in that area, but that there was like this big Phenomenon at the time, like in 1988 of kind of kids who are homeless or younger people selling themselves in order just to eat or to like have a place to stay for the night, which they called in the article survival Sex.
So I thought that was interesting. Like this was like a. This was a phenomenon on Hollywood Boulevard. This isn't like something was made up for the movies. Like there were a lot of people that were, you know, work being sex workers or even just once in a while sleeping with someone just to survive.
A more recent report on Hollywood Boulevard from The tourist blog boominginla.com gives this description of Hollywood Boulevard. It has a carnival esque atmosphere, much like Times Square in New York City or Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco. You will encounter pushy tour operators, weird museums and tons of colorful characters. It underwent renovation after being severely damaged by the 1994 Northridge earthquake, but still has a seedy side. There are a good number of homeless people, drug pushers, prostitutes, street kids and hustlers. If you venture there, hang on to your valuables. So it's like I visited there. Like, I don't remember what year I visited there. I think it was like 99 or something. And I did not feel like I had to hang on to my valuables at that time. So, you know, take it with a grain of salt. Some people are a little more worried about these things.
Hollywood Boulevard is a good place to visit if you want to see some Pretty Woman filming locations.
The place where Vivian lives in the movie is still standing. The Las Palmas Hotel is where Kit and Vivian live and where the fire escape is and where the end scene is and everything. It's still intact. And it's a stop on many Hollywood bus tours. You can rent a room there. I don't think you'd want to though.
And I'm going to tell you why. The rooms in the hotel that I found was $95 a night for a full bed. But the description noted that the room did not have air conditioning. Oh, can you imagine?
[01:02:33] Speaker D: Global warming?
Not possible today.
[01:02:37] Speaker A: I mean, I don't want to stay in like maybe in the winter, I don't know.
[01:02:42] Speaker B: In la. What's the winter in la?
[01:02:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:02:47] Speaker B: Pretty warm, right?
[01:02:49] Speaker A: Maybe, I don't know, maybe you can live with it for 95 a night. That's pretty cheap. Cheap anyway. But yeah, pretty, pretty bad. It's still there though. Okay.
[01:02:57] Speaker B: Wow.
[01:02:58] Speaker A: The Walk of Fame is also a notable feature of this film. Kit and Vivian and the other prostitutes are shown setting up shop on the Stars and kind of debating who gets which part of the stars. The Walk of fame is 1.3 miles long on Hollywood Boulevard from Gower street to La Brea Avenue. The first permanent star on the Walk of Fame was director Stanley Kramer on February 8, 1968. Prototype stars have been presented earlier, but they weren't part of the permanent construction yet. So 1960 is when it opened.
As of this month, there will be 2,808 stars on the Walk of Fame. But surprisingly, neither Richard Gere nor Julia Roberts have stars on the Walk of fame. According to screenrant.com, roberts was nominated in 1995, but declined because she didn't want people stepping on her name, which. Fair enough.
We're now moving out of the Hollywood Boulevard area and we're moving into Beverly Hills.
So Vivian drives Edward to the front door of the Regent Beverly Wilshire Hotel in Beverly Hills. And they're kind of talking outside the car. And then Edward decides he will take Vivian into the hotel and they get to know each other a bit before eventually having sex for the first time. What do you all think of this scene? Or I should say this series of scenes, because we see them walk through the hotel and then we see them in the hotel room for quite some time.
[01:04:21] Speaker B: So he puts his coat on her. He's like, here, you wear this. And. And you know, because people at this establishment aren't so used to seeing a lady like you here, let's actually talk.
[01:04:33] Speaker A: About what she's wearing. So just to make sure a picture for the audience too. Like, why does she need to have a coat? So.
[01:04:38] Speaker B: Oh, right. So it's that act iconic dress, quote, unquote. That's like. It's like T shirt material. It's like super, super tight. It's this mini skirt, tie, dye blue. And the top part of it is connected with a ring.
And then it comes to like a little like a halter top. So her sides and most of her midriff is in back and stuff are exposed. And she's wearing these above the knee black leather boots.
[01:05:10] Speaker A: And she's got a blonde wig as well. She's got this like, bobbed blonde platinum wig. We don't see the Julia Roberts hair yet. Yeah, it's a whole look. It's a whole thing.
[01:05:20] Speaker B: It's a whole thing. And she's got a bag and a coat and a little hat. So anyway, he puts his.
His long, long coat on her. And, you know, one of the. An iconic moment is when they get to the elevator. There's this older Couple. And they're looking.
And she puts her leg up and her beautiful long legs and most of it. And she's like, oh, honey, I have a runner in my pantyhose.
I'm not wearing pantyhose. And just, like, taunting these people staring at her and the elevator door open, and she's like, you know, color me happy. There's a bed in here. Whatever.
[01:06:03] Speaker A: Just they.
[01:06:04] Speaker B: And then they. They don't take the elevator. Like, I. I know all these lines. I just saw it a lot.
[01:06:12] Speaker A: Yeah, you get a lot of scenes where she's looking. Like, at first she's looking very awkward because she's in this very, like, rich environment. And, like, it's like she hasn't been someplace before like this. And she seems very insecure. And then her insecurity turns into sort of confrontation, I think, you know, like, yeah, she turns it into confronting these people who are staring at her instead.
[01:06:33] Speaker D: They made Vivian really loud in this scene, I think on purpose. Like, her walking was loud, and then her voice felt louder than everybody else's, and then her clothing was loud. So I definitely felt like they tried to make her stand out and uncomfortable in the scene. And you definitely felt it.
[01:06:52] Speaker C: There's, like, a lot of class differences in this, you know, as you said, with him asking her to put his code on and then her kind of getting the looks from people in the lobby, the way that the hotel staff treats her as we go through the movie, but especially in this beginning part of it where the hotel staff, you know, just kind of, like, staring at her or, you know, making these weird, like, looks. And it feels like Edward, like, they. They accommodate a lot of this because Edward is who he is.
I freaking loved when she pulled those condoms out of her boot. Like, I.
I was dying laughing. And just, like, the way she presented all of them to him had me dying throughout all of this. And I just really did not enjoy his accusation of her taking drugs when she was in the bathroom. And just kind of that whole, like, thing. It's just like, mind your business, bro. Like, I have a lot of. Where his whole interactions with her, especially in the beginning, feels very paternalistic in some respects. And it comes off really, I don't know, just demeaning in some respects.
[01:08:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to say about the condoms. Like, I think in 1990, that would have been, like, a really important message to put out, because I think safe sex, we were still kind of a senior establishing that as kind of, like, a norm. Unfortunately, I think we have to keep re. Establishing that over. Over year after year, you know what I mean? But, yeah, it was good to see it in a feature film. And Marshall said it was important to him to have that in the DVD commentary. He said it was important for him to include his safe sex message. And interesting. The condoms came. His wife brought them from the Hollywood Boulevard free clinic where she was actually working as a nurse at the time. Time. So, yeah, those are condoms that would have. That could have come from the very place that her character might have gotten them.
[01:08:49] Speaker B: Nice detail.
[01:08:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:08:51] Speaker D: The condoms from the boot. That was another, like, sprinkle in of her job too. I feel like. Yeah, that was a big one of like, oh, they're getting along. You know, she's obviously. People are looking at her. But then, like, she pulls out the condoms from her boot and you're like, oh, yeah, it's her job, right?
[01:09:08] Speaker B: And that whole scene, like, she's ready to get to it. She's like, I'm here. Let's make it happen. And he's like, ordered champagne and strawberries. And, you know, he's kind of like checking his messages and. And she's like. And so, you know, he's like, obviously time's important to you. How about just the whole night? And then I don't understand this line and why she does it. She says, you couldn't afford it.
What a ridiculous thing to say. And he's like, just try me. And she's like, 300. And like, that's it. 300 bucks. I don't know. Doesn't seem very impressive at all. To preface, it would be like, you couldn't afford it.
[01:09:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it's probably just supposed to show her naivety, I imagine. Like, oh, yeah. I don't know. I mean, I don't think she's actually supposed to have been a prostitute for very long yet. I think it's maybe less than a year.
[01:10:00] Speaker C: Maybe that's what it kind of feels like in some respects, that it's very, very short timing that she's been doing this.
[01:10:09] Speaker A: So a few more things I want to just make sure we establish that happen in this section. So we find out in this section that, as a rule, Vivian doesn't kiss on the mouth when she's doing her sex work. And she says, I don't kiss on the mouth. And Edward says, neither do I.
So when they begin their first sex scene, and we don't really see much of this at all, it's sort of in the implied that she's going to go down on him. We also establish that Edward is afraid of heights, which is going to be important later. And we see Vivian's real hair, Julia Roberts's real hair, for the first time as she sleeps after they've had sex for the first time. So those are all some things that get established.
Okay, so now we get to the morning after their encounter. And the next morning, Edward and Vivian talk about his job and about various things. And he eventually decides he wants to hire her for the whole week. And I have a clip where they do their negotiation.
[01:11:03] Speaker G: Vivian, I have a business proposition for you.
[01:11:07] Speaker F: What do you want?
[01:11:08] Speaker G: I'm going to be in town until Sunday. I'd like you to spend the week with me.
[01:11:13] Speaker A: Really?
[01:11:14] Speaker G: Yes.
Guess I'd like to hire you as an employee.
Would you consider speaking, spending the week with me?
I will pay you to be at my beck and call.
[01:11:27] Speaker F: Look, I'd love to be your beck and call girl, but you're a rich, good looking guy. You could get a million girls free.
[01:11:35] Speaker G: I want a professional.
I don't need any romantic hassles this week.
[01:11:42] Speaker F: If you're talking 24 hours a day, it's gonna cost you.
[01:11:46] Speaker G: Oh, yes, of course.
All right, here we go.
Give me a ballpark figure. How much?
[01:11:54] Speaker F: Six full nights. Days to 4000.
[01:12:00] Speaker G: Six nights at 300 is 1800.
[01:12:02] Speaker F: You want days, too?
[01:12:04] Speaker G: 2000.
[01:12:05] Speaker F: 3000.
[01:12:06] Speaker G: Done.
[01:12:08] Speaker F: Holy.
[01:12:13] Speaker G: Vivian.
Vivian, is that a yes?
[01:12:21] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:12:23] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:12:25] Speaker G: I'll be gone most of the day. I want you to buy some clothes.
[01:12:28] Speaker F: You really should think about travelers checks.
[01:12:30] Speaker G: We may be going out evenings. You'll need something to wear.
[01:12:32] Speaker F: Like what?
[01:12:34] Speaker G: Nothing too flashy. Not too sexy.
Conservative. You understand?
[01:12:39] Speaker B: Boring.
[01:12:41] Speaker G: Elegant. Any questions?
[01:12:44] Speaker F: Can I call you Eddie?
[01:12:45] Speaker G: If you expect me to answer.
[01:12:47] Speaker F: I would have stayed for 2000.
[01:12:51] Speaker G: I would have paid four.
I'll see you tonight.
[01:12:54] Speaker F: Baby, I'm gonna treat you so nice, you're never gonna wanna let me go.
[01:13:00] Speaker G: 3,000 for six days.
And, Vivian, I will let you go.
[01:13:08] Speaker F: But I'm here now.
[01:13:12] Speaker A: Any thoughts about the negotiation scene and this breakfast scene?
[01:13:16] Speaker C: That bathtub scene is so iconic. Kiss is one of my favorite Prince songs of all time. And just the way that she's, like, screaming. Like, not screaming, but, you know, doing the voice.
[01:13:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:13:29] Speaker C: You know, with the bubbles and Edward coming in and he's just like. Oh, yeah, it's just like somebody from Housekeeping, you know, when he's talking to. I think it's Stucky. Yeah. On the phone.
And just the way that, you know, she's in the tub. And again, this is so 90s as well. Because the headphones and the Walkman, it's just so iconic, this particular scene and that song. I love that song so much. Actually, after I watched this movie, I went and played that song.
[01:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:14:01] Speaker C: Such a great scene.
[01:14:02] Speaker A: I'm kind of impressed that they got song rights to play Kiss in the movie.
[01:14:05] Speaker B: Good point.
[01:14:06] Speaker A: I mean, they're not really playing it, but she's singing it, so you'd still need to get the rights to it. So that's. That's kind of cool. Yeah.
So we. We now have the negotiation, though. Now we've settled on the price for Vivian. $3,000 for six days. And so I found out the 3,000 for six days would be about $7,340 today. I think she didn't ask for enough. What do you guys think?
[01:14:27] Speaker B: No, totally not enough.
[01:14:29] Speaker C: Like, she definitely should have gotten more money after everything she went to. And she gets almost assaulted by a weirdo.
Edward give her so much more money for everything she went through this week.
[01:14:41] Speaker A: I guess she does get a lot of clothes, though. Like, I mean, like, he does buy her, like, a shitload of really nice clothes. Closed. So I guess that could come for something. But, yeah, I feel poor because I was like, 3,000.
[01:14:52] Speaker D: That's pretty good. And I'm like, wait, what is that today?
[01:14:56] Speaker A: I mean, it is good, but it's like asking for all of your time and for you to be like, as she says, your beck and call girl. Like, to be like, basically just do whatever he wants and, like, come along wherever he wants to go. And, like, that's a lot to ask. That's a lot of emotional labor. Right there.
[01:15:12] Speaker D: It is. But if you think about his workaholic Ness, like, he's probably at work 12 hours a day.
[01:15:18] Speaker E: So, like, cut that in half.
[01:15:20] Speaker A: True.
[01:15:20] Speaker C: And I'd say more like 18 hours a day. It feels like he was working.
[01:15:24] Speaker A: So before she goes out in Beverly Hills, she talks to her friend Kit, and we haven't really talked much about Kit. So. Yeah. What do you guys think about Kit, her best friend, played by Laura San Giacomo?
[01:15:37] Speaker B: I just think she's cute and funny. You know, she feels more New York than LA and, you know, a. Kind of a hot mess and. But in a cute way.
[01:15:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. I. As I said earlier, like, her roommate is trash, but I think she shows up for her as a friend in a.
[01:16:00] Speaker A: In.
[01:16:01] Speaker C: In good ways. Like checking in. Checking in with your friend who is also a sex worker on the streets. But also she. It seems like she has a pretty severe drug problem. And her pimp seems like a real piece of shit.
[01:16:16] Speaker A: Like, this is unclear because it doesn't really seem like they have a pimp. Like, she's. They're talking about not getting a pimp earlier, but then this guy Carlos, like, is just her drug dealer.
[01:16:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it's her drug dealer.
[01:16:27] Speaker A: But they're all going after Vivian at times, too. Like, I feel like there was part of the writing that kind of got missed or maybe they took. They forgot to take something out. Like, there definitely feels like a continuity problem with Carlos and those other dudes following them around.
[01:16:39] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree about that. But, yeah, I overall liked the character of Kit.
I thought this character worked and was in the movie just the right amount.
[01:16:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that it gives Vivian someone to talk to who's not a man, too. Like, quite frankly, like, this movie, like, instead of worrying about whether things pass the Bechdel test once, I now worry about whether they pass it twice. And this movie does successfully pass the Bechdel test twice because she and Kit talk about something that is not Edward, believe it or not, more than once. And you have Kit talking to another sex worker at a certain point about something that's not a man. So that's pretty cool.
All right, so let's. Now we'll go to Vivian and Beverly Hills. And I call this section. Basically, Vivian deals with classism on Rodeo Drive.
Yes. And. And then initially she also comes back to the hotel and Barney, the hotel manager played by Hector Elizondo and is also kind of hassling her. But it turns out that Barney is willing to work with her, you know, maybe just because of Edward, but he's not like a monster.
[01:17:42] Speaker C: I loved him in this movie. He was, to me, reminded me of, like, a fairy godmother.
[01:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah, totally.
[01:17:50] Speaker A: That's so funny. That's exactly what Gary Marshall said about him. That's what he intended. That is exactly what he said.
[01:17:56] Speaker C: It absolutely flows felt that way, especially when she was just kind of, like, so distraught when she got back and then, like, kept approaching him as he was talking, you know, to, like, people, and it was like, hey, Barney. Hey. Hey. And then taught her about, like, the. The salad forks and like, all of that stuff. It just felt very godmother, like, fairy tale thing. And so I really appreciated that whole scene after she went through what she went through to receive that kindness from a stranger when she went out and didn't receive that same kindness from many, many, many, many strangers.
[01:18:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that scene is so. It's. It's painful because she goes into that shop and there's these like, very snooty looking kind of blonde ladies. There's several of them. And they're saying things like, I don't think this would fit you.
[01:18:49] Speaker C: You.
[01:18:50] Speaker A: It's very expensive.
I don't think we have anything for you. You're obviously in the wrong place. Please leave. And it's like, oh, it just hurts, right? Like, I've definitely been in environments where I felt like I was not posh enough to fit in. And like, it makes you feel really nervous. And apparently writer J.F. lawton told the Face.com that this scene was actually based on him trying to do research for the script for this movie and visiting a Rodeo Drive menswear shop and having a clerk tell him that they had nothing for him in the store.
[01:19:22] Speaker B: Wow.
[01:19:22] Speaker A: Can you believe it?
And he said he was even wearing a suit, but apparently the suit wasn't fancy enough or maybe he looked too nervous or something.
[01:19:31] Speaker B: Wow.
[01:19:32] Speaker A: I think this is an important scene in the movie, though. I think there were a lot of 80s movies that were interested in class in a way that. In a way that you're trying to root for the underdog. And it's funny that the 80s was such a decade where we were seeing like some of these very terrible policies going on economically and where people were, we were having these trickle down economics and so forth being introduced. And yet the movies were kind of a site of resistance against this. They were always trying to show underdogs fighting against rich people. And this is one of those examples. I also think it's. There's a through line to Julia Roberts playing Aaron Brockovich, because in that movie she's also not taken seriously because of her appearance, you know, at the beginning of the movie. So she often plays these underdogs who are not taken seriously because of the.
[01:20:18] Speaker B: Way they look to continuing on the Hector Elizondo. Oh, and how Alexi has said, we keep getting sprinkled, you know, reminders that she's a prostitute. You know, when he picks up the phone to make a call to a department store that he's, you know, is going to get help for her. She, she goes, oh, call the cops. Tell them I say hi. Like that is a reality for her. Right? Like, how many times has she been, you know, called the cops on and thought that was kind of gritty, a gritty reminder.
But it's also their little interactions. Very adorable when he's like. And you are, I guess, and you know, and he's trying to like coax out of her her relationship with Edward, and he's like, you're his niece. She's like, yes, I'm his niece. It was cute. It was cute.
Very funny.
[01:21:18] Speaker D: It was really cute. Hector Elizondo, he plays the exact same character in Princess Diaries.
[01:21:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:21:26] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:21:26] Speaker D: The exact same character. So, like, I've watched Princess Diaries because quite a bit, but watching this for the first time, I'm like, he just looks a little younger, but he's the same.
[01:21:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And then she does successfully get a dress from the place Barney refers her to. It's this really beautiful black dress. And I love when Edward comes to meet her for dinner in the lounge, and he doesn't even recognize that it's her from behind. And she turns around, he's like, oh. Like, it's one of her transformation moments.
So now we come to the scene where Vivian and Edward go to dinner with Mr. Morse, whose company Edward is trying to take over and sell off, and Mr. Morse and his son.
So. Yeah. Any observations about this dinner scene?
[01:22:15] Speaker B: Oh, the thing with the fork with the snails is iconic.
They get served escargot snails, and there's a special fork for it, or, I don't know, smasher. And she's trying to work with it, and one of them flies out and the. And the, like, waiter catches it, and she's like, slippery little suckers. And. And the waiters, like, happens to everybody, you know, and it's. It's iconic and adorable.
[01:22:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Specifically, he says it happens all the time. And apparently he says he's also in Princess Diaries and does that at some point, like, says the same line.
[01:22:54] Speaker D: There's one line that I love where, like, the plates come out of order. And she was like, this isn't the order I practiced pretty much.
[01:23:03] Speaker B: It was really cute.
[01:23:04] Speaker A: See, me, if I went to this dinner, I would just be like, I don't care what fork I'm using, or if it's correct, I would just eat it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't care. I don't care that much about impressing people to that extent. And I also would not let somebody else order for me. That is a good. Really rookie mistake right there.
[01:23:19] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[01:23:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:23:22] Speaker C: I really, again, this is very much highlights the understanding of kind of, like, our capitalist system.
It was really interesting to hear from the two sides, Morris's side and Edward's side, about Morris's understanding of his business versus Edward's understanding of, quote unquote, his business and what he would do do with Morris's business. Right. Like he's just like, I would just sell it for parts and blah, blah. And as I said earlier, like this venture capitalism stuff is exactly why we are in kind of the situation we're in with so many of these established corporations now no longer being in business.
Again, as I said earlier, most recently, Joanne Fabrics is one of these particular businesses that unfortunately has been sold to somebody who does work that Edward does and is now selling it off for parts. To get to hear capitalism talked about this way, especially with what we know now in 2025, feels really weird and kind of behind the veil type of shit that you would hope that people would take into consideration when we're talking about eliminating businesses, eliminating jobs, people's livelihoods, what goes on within economic circles and why the economy is more than just the stock market, right? It's more than just all of these other things that people nowadays attribute it to. It is this. And this is exactly what is highlighted in this conversation between Morris and Edward.
[01:24:56] Speaker B: Well, in 1990, nobody like Vivian straight away, when, you know, the morning after, and she's asking about what he does and, and he, she's like, so you don't make anything, you don't build anything? And she's, you know, if she doesn't even have a high school degree, but she's putting it together and being like, gee, what the fuck do you do? Then you buy it and you sell it off. Like, that seems shitty. And then it just becomes, you know, we see more in this scene. It's. That's shitty. Nobody likes, nobody thinks that that's nice.
So I guess you can be a billionaire, but everybody else is like, you suck with your billions of dollars.
[01:25:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:25:35] Speaker B: No one likes you.
[01:25:36] Speaker A: And this was even like beyond, like, like, so Joanne fabrics, like important, like obviously it's still important, but like in the 80s we were even dealing with like, like just we were more of an industrial country and where we actually made products that were then sold. We were going through the first kind of sell off of our economy. Right now we're kind of going through the sell off of even the selling products economy, right? In the 80s we were going through like the car companies were all shutting down and moving off and stuff like that. Like you think about something like Roger and me, the documentary came out around that time about all the GM plants and stuff like this. Like, people were really anxious about this and rightly so. And like, you can't get some of that stuff back once it's gone. You know, Mr. Morris is trying to work on ship Building, you know, like, maybe you want to have more of that done, you know, in your country. And like, we certainly aren't going to solve it by putting freaking tariffs on everybody, just randomly. Thank you very much. Right.
Anyway, sorry.
[01:26:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:26:35] Speaker A: You could totally do just a capitalist analysis of this movie and it would be interesting, I think. So. I think there is something totally.
[01:26:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[01:26:44] Speaker A: And we go back to the hotel now and there's kind of a scene where Vivian is a little bit like Edward's conscience.
And I, I kind of like that scene. It's the first scene where you see that Vivian is having a real effect on Edward. This is not a matter of him just teaching her, you know, quote unquote, how to be a lady, but she's sort of teaching him how to be a human.
[01:27:06] Speaker C: It definitely does start to humanize Edward in a lot of respects. And I, and I like that because it felt like up until this point he was like a robot.
[01:27:16] Speaker A: Right.
[01:27:16] Speaker C: Like, I don't know, very robotic or just kind of in a spot of somebody who is just very focused on one thing.
And then Vivian kind of opens up his mind in some respects to other things and other realities. And you definitely see it. As we continue on through the rest.
[01:27:36] Speaker A: Of the movie, then we come to maybe the sexiest scene in the movie. I don't know. In my opinion, it probably is.
Which is the piano sex scene. And according to the Hollywood Reporter, the piano scene was improvised after a conversation with Gary Marshall about what Richard Gere usually did late night in a hotel. And Gere told Marshall he'd often be jet lagged, so he'd find a piano in the hotel's ballroom and play. And that is in fact Richard Gere playing the piano.
So we start out the scene where just Vivian finds him downstairs playing the piano and then he asks everyone to leave and they have the piano sex scene. What did you all think about this piano sex scene? I especially want to hear from my body literati people here especially who specialize in such sexy scenes.
[01:28:23] Speaker E: So I loved felt natural. I didn't feel overly scripted. It was very Hollywood like sex scene where the lighting was just right and they like zoomed in on certain parts, parts of her body.
But there's something about it, like when she sat on the piano, it felt, I don't know how to explain it. It didn't feel like overly scripted. It felt natural. And it was the first time that you see them get really intimate. Like during the whole movie. They like kind of tease it a little bit, but they didn't actually show a whole lot. So this was like the first time where I think they really showed that they were having sex.
[01:29:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree about that. Like, I found this scene. This is probably one of the scenes that I very closely looked at, especially Richard Gere's face. And you could see he goes through so many emotions, like in this particular scene. And yeah, I found this scene to be really hot and really sexy as well. And as Alexia said, it is kind of the first time we do have.
Not to say that we didn't have the implications before that they were having sex, but this is like very explicit that, yeah, they're gonna. They're gonna have sex and it's gonna be in public, quote, unquote. Right?
Yes, this is public sex in a lot of respects. And so, yeah, I found the scene to be quite interesting and very on point with everything that body literati talks about. So. Yeah, absolutely.
[01:29:55] Speaker A: Yeah. What I love about the scene is the element of the sound, like just having the piano keys kind of play, you know, random notes, like implying their movement. I think it's a clever, clever element to have in a sex scene. I'm sure there have been other sex scenes like that. I can't recall them off the top of my head, but I really like that. And the other thing I really appreciate about this is like, it is a very sexy and intimate scene, but there is no actual nudity at all. You know, like, you do see some body parts, but she's wearing like. Like a pretty, like, you know, respectable looking, like sort of slip, black slip that's covering all her body parts. But yet it is still very hot, which I think is great.
[01:30:35] Speaker B: Two things, I think it. It appears like he want. He is going in to kiss her and she evades.
And two, Jennifer, the movie we just did together, what's the, The.
[01:30:47] Speaker A: The idea of you?
[01:30:48] Speaker B: The idea of you. Yeah, there's a sexy piano smooch up against in the keys.
[01:30:55] Speaker A: So wait, did the keys go off in that and I forgot about it?
[01:30:57] Speaker B: I think they do, yes.
So I wonder if they were inspired by this scene.
Who knows? Maybe a little.
[01:31:07] Speaker A: Who can say?
[01:31:08] Speaker B: Yeah, who could say if there's something super hot about it?
[01:31:14] Speaker A: So we'd have this piano sex scene and then we come to probably what is the most famous section of this movie. Would you all agree? The shopping and makeover scene.
[01:31:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:31:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
I'm gonna play a clip from the shopping and makeover scene and then we'll discuss.
[01:31:31] Speaker G: I am Mr. Hollister, the manager. May I help you? Edward Lewis. Ah, yes, sir. You see this young lady over here?
Yes.
Do you have anything in this shop as beautiful as she is? Oh, yes.
Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm saying we have many things as beautiful as she would want them to be. That's the point I was getting at, and I think we can all agree with that. That's why when you came in here, you know, we're going to need. Here first. We're going to need a few more people helping us out. I'll tell you why.
We're going to be spending an obscene amount of money in here.
So we're gonna need a lot more help sucking up to us, because that's what we really like. You understand that? Sir, if I may say so, you're in the right store and the right city for that matter. Anything you see here we can do, by the way. Get ready to have some fun. Okay? Mary Pat. Mary Kate.
[01:32:16] Speaker A: Mary Frances.
[01:32:16] Speaker G: Tova.
[01:32:17] Speaker A: Let's see it.
[01:32:17] Speaker C: Come on, bring it out.
[01:32:18] Speaker A: Absolutely divine.
[01:32:20] Speaker G: Excuse me, sir.
Exactly how obscene an amount of money were you talking about? Just profane or really offensive? Really offensive. I like him so much, Lewis. How's it going so far? Pretty well, I think. I think we need some major sucking up.
Very well, sir. You're not only handsome, but a powerful man. I could see the second you walked in here, you were someone to reckon with. Hollister. Yes, sir.
Not me.
[01:32:51] Speaker A: Her.
[01:32:52] Speaker G: I'm sorry, sir, you're on your own. I have to go back to work. You look great.
She has my card. And we'll help her use it, sir.
[01:33:04] Speaker C: Pretty woman.
[01:33:08] Speaker A: No, thank you. Hi. Hello.
[01:33:10] Speaker F: Do you remember me?
[01:33:12] Speaker D: No, I'm sorry.
[01:33:13] Speaker F: I was in here yesterday. You wouldn't wait on me. Oh, you work on commission, right?
[01:33:18] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:33:20] Speaker F: Big mistake.
[01:33:21] Speaker B: Big.
[01:33:22] Speaker A: Huge.
[01:33:23] Speaker G: I have to go shopping now.
[01:33:28] Speaker A: All right. That was the biggest comeuppance in cinema history. No, totally.
It is, I think, one of the most satisfying moments in cinema history, though.
[01:33:41] Speaker B: I mean, I still quote it. I don't know. Big mistake. Huge.
[01:33:47] Speaker E: I like how it's not overly aggressive. It's like the perfect amount of snark. It's not she's going in there cussing him out, or it's just like a nice elegant fu. And then she just, like, walks out.
Love it.
[01:34:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And like, apparently in the original script, she was just supposed to make, like, a rude gesture at the shopkeepers and like, she kind of improv the line instead. And I'm like, that is so, so much better. That is such a better choice.
[01:34:15] Speaker C: There are so many Iconic scenes in this. In this movie that are improvised. Right. Like this one, the jewelry box one, like the, The. The sex scene we just talked about, like, that's somewhat improvised as well. It's just mind blowing. But also from what we learned earlier about the script not being completed, you know, during this, that it feels like they had to somewhat improvise a lot of this. And yeah, it 100% is so much better. This whole entire montage up until. Even the music. The music is so good. This entire thing. I do agree. Probably one of the greatest montage scenes ever.
Can we talk about the shopkeeper? That man, Larry Miller.
[01:35:00] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:35:01] Speaker C: I love him so much. Like, I love him in 10 things I hate about you. He is the snarkiest dad.
Girl, dad I have ever seen in that movie. Larry Miller. Yeah, in this scene is so good. I just love when he does the whole thing. Like, are we talking, like, obscene or are we talking, like, you know, uber, like, type of thing? And it was just. It's just so funny. I. I find this whole part, everything he does in this scene, absolutely hilarious. And like, the whole thing, he gave. He has that man give her his tie. I was dying.
[01:35:35] Speaker B: Dying.
Right.
[01:35:38] Speaker A: So what do you think about the actual clothes in this scene? Like, I think when I was a kid, they did not impress me all that much. And like, still, some of them, I'm like, really? She really is excited about that one. But, but. But others are pretty good. Were there any clothes that stuck out to you or anything about the style that stuck out?
[01:35:55] Speaker B: There's one outfit that I don't think we see again in the show. And it's a little. It's like pants, and it's kind of got this like a kind of a cropped sweater thing. And it actually looks like a Julia Roberts pick. Like, I think it's a style that has come up in other films of hers that she's like, oh, yeah, that was my own and I brought that and blah, blah, blah. So I kind of saw this kind of. It was a little more like, kind of earthy and a little more like some embroidered work. Slightly hippie or whatever. Not that what I would particularly call for what this character Vivian would need for the world that she would need to be in. Anyway, I noticed that one little bit, and I'm like, I think that's just enough that she likes in real life, my own. And then the iconic brown with the white polka dot dress that she wears later.
[01:36:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:36:53] Speaker C: That's the one for me. And I'm you know, even though I. I have too big of a head for hat, I love an outfit with a hat. Like, right. Like, it just, it just brings the whole thing together. And maybe as I've gotten older, I've also appreciated accessories because that's never been a thing that I've been super into growing up. But as I've gotten older, accessories have become really, really important to me. And I appreciate a shop that gives you everything, right? Like, down to the underwear. Like, I feel like I would go absolutely wild in a store like that and just be like, everything. I will take it. So. But yes, I agree.
Definitely the brown and white outfit that we see later on in. This is definitely my favorite.
[01:37:44] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Even to have, like, free reign in Old Navy. Like, if someone just said, here, put it on my card. Yeah, I buy.
Do you know, like, I can blow my mind if it were, like, in some, you know, Bordeaux Drive, Beverly Hills situation. Oh, my God.
[01:38:05] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm like, I'll take a thousand dollar LL Bean certificate and I'll be happy, basically.
[01:38:10] Speaker B: Oh, my. That's luxury. That's like, that's like, that's expensive. I. Yeah, I hear you.
[01:38:19] Speaker A: Any other comments about the makeover before I give some Beverly Hills location info now?
[01:38:24] Speaker E: I, I kind of wanted to make a comment. I guess I'm really terrible at fashion. Like, I know nothing about fashion, so I'm like, oh, there's so many shoulder pads on, like, everything she's wearing. Yes, but I know that was like, the style. And then.
[01:38:40] Speaker A: Oh, yes.
[01:38:41] Speaker E: There were things that just, I feel like, made her a little frumpy that just weren't flattering. But they were really, like, they showed that you had money, especially in what, 90s, early 90s, late 80s.
So I don't know, it was, it was kind of a weird moment because I'm like, oh, why is she wearing that? And I'm like, okay, well, I'll stop being so judgy.
[01:39:07] Speaker A: No, totally.
[01:39:08] Speaker C: The one that she's.
[01:39:09] Speaker A: Can you, can you think of a specific one, Alexia, that made you like, what, what is that outfit like?
[01:39:15] Speaker E: Yes, the one where she's at the Cool with Kit.
[01:39:18] Speaker A: Oh, I like that short. Are you kidding? Oh, my God, that's like my favorite outfit. Oh, my God. The one where she's in the coral short suit. I love the coral short suit.
[01:39:30] Speaker E: I am not a coral short suit person.
[01:39:34] Speaker A: I was thinking to myself, would that I could have a coral short suit.
[01:39:41] Speaker C: No.
[01:39:41] Speaker E: Well, this is awkward. Is how I get kicked off.
[01:39:44] Speaker A: No, no, no, no.
[01:39:46] Speaker B: Well, Even the suit that she walks out in in the white dress with the buttons and thing, it looks kind of like a suit. Ish. For the office. It's not. I don't think it's very pretty or.
[01:39:58] Speaker A: Whatever, but it's like old Hollywood to me. That looks like 1930s, late 1930s, early 1940s Hollywood glamour lady kind of look to me.
[01:40:07] Speaker B: I don't know.
[01:40:08] Speaker A: I don't think she'd go to an office in that per se.
[01:40:11] Speaker B: No, no, I suppose not. But it's. I don't. Again, I'm like. And that was the look at the time. But not my favorite now. Yeah, yeah.
[01:40:20] Speaker E: It's the shoulder pads.
[01:40:22] Speaker B: The shoulder pads.
[01:40:23] Speaker A: I know though.
Is everybody else also a coral short suit hater? I need to know.
[01:40:28] Speaker C: I am not. I actually really liked that outfit as well. So I'm Team Jen on, on that outfit.
[01:40:38] Speaker A: Thank you, Jess. Thank you. I feel less alone.
[01:40:40] Speaker B: I'm so, so on it. I'm so, so, so. I'm like, so that's my soundage when I saw it.
[01:40:52] Speaker A: So now I'm going to talk a little bit about some Beverly Hills locations that we see in the movie. So first of all, we see a Beverly Hills sign in the movie at the corner of Santa Monica Boulevard and Doheny Drive.
So they do use also the actual Regent Beverly Wilshire Hotel in the movie, but only for exterior shots. The interior of the hotel is the Ambassador Hotel, which was a famous Los Angeles hotel which had recently closed at the time of shooting. And I believe it does not exist anymore. So it doesn't even exist for shooting movies at.
The filmmakers ended up having to design the sets for the interior of the hotel from the ground up because the hotel's furnishings and decor had already been removed or were in bad shape. So, yeah. That if you go to Beverly Hills, you cannot actually go to the real interior of this hotel, sadly.
But this does not stop the hotel from capitalizing on the movie. Despite not actually being used much in the movie, the Beverly Wilshire Hotel offers a pretty woman for a day VIP experience.
LA Meg.com priced it out at $300,000 for the day.
[01:42:02] Speaker B: Wow.
[01:42:03] Speaker A: Yes. So the experience includes, among other things. Well, you get a suite, obviously. You also get a specially drawn aromatherapy bath, a behind the scenes shopping experience on Rodeo Drive with a personal stylist and a quote, bespoke picnic, end quote, in a local park.
There was more stuff too, but I'm like, I don't know, man. $300,000, that's pretty steep.
[01:42:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[01:42:30] Speaker E: I think there would be more.
[01:42:32] Speaker A: There's more. But like, I cannot think of anything that like, would justify paying that much money for like an experience that took a week or less. You know what I mean?
[01:42:44] Speaker E: A fast and a picnic.
[01:42:47] Speaker C: This picnic better be amazing.
[01:42:50] Speaker A: I mean, like, do I own the entire store on Rodeo Drive after this experience? Experience? Is that what I get? Like, I don't know.
[01:42:57] Speaker B: Wow.
[01:42:59] Speaker A: So the snooty store in the movie where Vivian is refused service was a real store? It was called Bull Miche. The store still exists, but it has since relocated from Rodeo Drive. I couldn't determine where the good store is. I'm not sure. Like, it was unclear to me. It might be that they used the same store for both of the stores, but I'm not sure. I could not find the real information. I watched like all the commentary, looked at all the location info on the dvd, was not enlightened about this. So sorry everybody.
And let's see. Rodeo Drive today is, if anything, even fancier. So the business owners in Rodeo Drive have their own very fancy website. You should totally visit it if you want to see like a super fancy website. By the way, I'll put it in the show. Notes from the website, I learned that Giorgio was the first designer brand to open on Rodeo Drive. They opened in 1961 and they were shortly followed by brands like Gucci, Tiffany, Van Cleef and Arpels and Vidal Sassoon. So those were some of the earliest stores on Rodeo Drive. The fancy website for Rodeo Drive says this about the area, quote, synonymous with Hollywood glamour. Rodeo Drive is recognized as a new nexus point connecting heritage with modernity and savoir faire with innovation.
Today, Los Angeles and Beverly Hills draw the world's most sophisticated artists.
A list movie stars, philanthropists and cultural institutions.
Rodeo Drive's three iconic palm dotted blocks are home to more than 100 of the world's leading luxury brands with deep connections to art and culture. Housed in buildings designed by the most distinguished names in international design and architecture. End quote.
Wow.
[01:44:40] Speaker E: I don't think I've ever heard modernity out loud before.
[01:44:45] Speaker A: Heard that word said out loud.
[01:44:48] Speaker C: What is that?
[01:44:49] Speaker A: Does give it a very academic feel to it. Like, it's almost like this is like more than a consumer experience. We have somehow been elevated into like some artistic realm. I don't know.
So a final. A final location in the Beverly Hills area. The restaurant where Vivian and Edward dined with Mr. Morse is called Cicada today.
When the movie was filmed, it was called Rex Tu Ristorante and they the restaurant today, the Cicada Restaurant, seems to have a specialty of dinner and vintage style musical acts. It actually looks like a kind of cool place to go. And apparently, like, this is something I learned from the dvd. According to the dvd, the building that that restaurant's located in is a historic building. And it was either the first or one of the first art deco buildings in Los Angeles. So that's kind of cool. It's still a place you can visit today.
[01:45:42] Speaker E: That is really cool.
[01:45:45] Speaker A: All right, so now we're going to go to the polo match.
And so Edward now takes Vivian to a polo match.
And Stuckey is at the polo match. The lawyer gets the idea that she's a corporate spy because she's talking to Mr. Morse's son. And Edward ends up telling Stuckey that she is a prostitute.
Stucky propositions Vivian and Vivian is pissed. So before we talk about the part where she's pissed, let's just do the talk about a little bit polo match. As we mentioned, this is where she's wearing the brown with white polka dots dress and hat with the matching hat band. I felt the polo match was a little bit random in this movie. I've, I've never been near a polo match in my life. But what do you guys all think about it?
[01:46:28] Speaker C: I don't know. I feel like anytime there is polo in a movie, it just talks about rich people.
You know, I, I watch the Crown or a lot of those, like, British shows and they have like polo scenes. Especially when you, like, are talking about, like, really rich people in England, like, they freaking love polo. Like, I, I don't, I don't know the appeal. Maybe it's aristocratic.
[01:46:50] Speaker B: Right.
[01:46:51] Speaker C: And all that stuff. But yeah, I do agree. And I wonder if it's placed here as an understanding of just kind of the circle that Edward kind of travels in. Right. And because you get to meet like some of the wives too, like in this and get to see a little bit of the interaction that he has with people in his circle a little bit more.
[01:47:11] Speaker A: Sure.
[01:47:12] Speaker C: And maybe that's what this is, is meant to, like, convey is like the hoity toity ness or the upper crust kind of feel that all these people, you know, traveling and Vivian being the fish out of water, quote, unquote, because she's not in this circle. And that's why Stucky feels he can do whatever the hell he wants, like in this part of this. And I would be really pissed too. I mean.
Yeah, it's just, it's maddening. This, this entire scene from top to bottom, 100%.
[01:47:45] Speaker B: Like, it starts off with them at the car and she's holding on to it and she doesn't want to go. And he has to convince her, like, you can do this, it's going to be just fine. And Alexi, I think previously you, you were, you commented on how funny it was when, you know, Vivian makes that like woof, woof noise or whatever. I believe that was also. Yeah. An improvised moment in the film as well, and also iconic. And everyone looks there like, you know, it's so funny.
[01:48:18] Speaker E: I don't know why.
[01:48:19] Speaker B: It's hilarious. Well, it's so not appropriate. It's not how they do at the polo match. And you know, she's, that was like an Arsenio hall thing. Do you remember, from that talk show, hilarious.
And yes, I think, Jess, you are completely right. I mean, she even asks Edward, you know, are you friends with these people? And he's like, not really. And she's like, and is Stucky your friend? He's like, not really. You know, even though he's kind of like his right hand man in a way. He really doesn't like Stucky either. And she's like, well, no wonder you came looking for me. You're alone and you got no friends.
[01:49:01] Speaker A: Now that I think about it, this might seem, might also be in there with horses. Like it does kind of hearken back subconsciously to My Fair lady because she goes to that Ascot Races kind of thing, you know, I wonder if that's part of it too, even on the subconscious level.
[01:49:17] Speaker B: For sure. And that's where Eliza, you know, comes out of her, you know, she's doing so well. And then she shouts up, move your bloominars to the horse. And like she's caught. And then Vivian does a woof, woof. So brilliant, Chen. Totally.
[01:49:35] Speaker A: Well, I mean, they made the movie. I didn't do it.
[01:49:39] Speaker B: I never thought of it though. Thanks for bringing it up.
[01:49:42] Speaker A: All right, so now we come to, they have a fight, and I'm actually, I'm gonna play the clip of that fight.
[01:49:48] Speaker G: You all right?
[01:49:49] Speaker A: I'm fine.
[01:49:51] Speaker G: Fine. That's good. Seven fines since we left the match. Could I have another word, please?
[01:49:57] Speaker F: Asshole.
[01:49:58] Speaker G: There's a word I think I like fine better.
[01:50:02] Speaker F: You know what, just tell me when.
Why did you make me get all dressed up?
[01:50:07] Speaker G: Well, for one thing, the clothing was appropriate.
[01:50:09] Speaker F: No, what I mean is, if you were gonna tell everybody I'm a hooker, why didn't you just let me wear my own clothes?
[01:50:15] Speaker A: Okay?
[01:50:16] Speaker F: I mean, in my own clothes, when someone like that guy Stuckey comes up to me, I can handle it.
[01:50:20] Speaker C: I'm prepared.
[01:50:22] Speaker G: I'm very sorry. I'm not happy with Stuckey at all for saying that or doing that. But he is my attorney. I've known him for 10 years.
He thought she was some kind of industrial spy. The guy's paranoid.
[01:50:33] Speaker F: What are you, my pimp now? You know, you think you can just pass me around to your friends? I'm not some little toy.
[01:50:38] Speaker G: No, you're not my toy. I know you're not my toy. Vivian. Vivian, I'm speaking to you. Come back here.
I hate to point out the obvious, but you are, in fact, a hooker. And you are my employee.
[01:50:48] Speaker F: You don't owe me. I decide, okay? I say who, I say when I say who.
[01:50:52] Speaker G: I refuse to spend the next three days fighting with you. I said I. I was sorry. I meant it. That's the end of it.
[01:50:59] Speaker F: I'm sorry I ever met you.
I'm sorry I ever got into your stupid car.
[01:51:04] Speaker G: As if you had so many more appealing options.
[01:51:09] Speaker F: I've never had anyone make me feel.
[01:51:11] Speaker C: As cheap as you did today.
[01:51:14] Speaker G: Somehow I find that very hard to believe.
Where are you going?
[01:51:27] Speaker F: I want my money. I want to get out of here.
[01:51:30] Speaker A: So Edward does end up apologizing to her and stops her from leaving on the elevator. But, yeah. What do you make of this scene?
[01:51:39] Speaker C: I think by this point, these two are in love with each other. And I think this is why this hurts Vivian so badly.
And it feels like Edward wants to have his cake and eat it, too, but also has regret about some of these things because he's never had to, like, account for anybody besides himself, right? He doesn't. He's never had to be accountable to somebody else. So for him to treat Vivian the way that he did, she calls him out about his accountability. Accountability and the. The understanding that they had that. If you're gonna transform me into what you want me to be, why are you telling people this thing that brings me back to what I was originally and have Stucky do what he did?
It just feels very.
Just so heartbreaking. I really felt very bad for. For Vivian.
[01:52:40] Speaker E: So one of my favorite lines is actually in this scene. And I don't know why it stuck out to me, but when she's talking about how she wasn't wearing her own clothes, so she wasn't prepared.
I don't know why I love that line so much. Because then I guess I kind of get, like, in the beginning when she's wearing her own clothing, she is very confident in who she. She is because she knows who she is. And then as she's getting dressed up and kind of paraded around, that's when she starts feeling a little bit. I feel, like, insecure in this new world or environment.
So I just. I don't know. I really like that scene. It stuck out to me when Edward tells her to, like, that's the end of it.
When he, like, says his part and he's like, that's the end of it. I was like, oh, it's raging inside. Because you could tell he's kind of used to getting what he wants.
[01:53:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:53:34] Speaker E: Without anyone calling him out on it.
[01:53:37] Speaker A: Y. Yeah. For the. For the clothes. I feel like, in a way, like, I feel like her sort of prostitute uniform, if you will, is kind of like an armor to her. You know, it's like she's wear. It's almost like she's playing a role, you know, and it's like, when. As long as she's. Has the understanding that she's playing that role, she.
She can kind of distance herself. But then when she's, like, there could be something like, yes, like, she's in this new clothes that make her uncomfortable and, like, that she's not really comfortable in yet, but also, like, she's not being treated as the role she's dressed for, I guess. You know what I mean?
[01:54:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yes. I also can't stand the.
That's it. And it's over now, so we're done fighting about it. Like, okay, wait. You know, just dismissive and, like, I'm done. So it's over.
Like, no.
It's interesting that, like, I said, I'm sorry and I meant it, like. Yes. But, like, without truly acknowledging her feelings, really, you know.
[01:54:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:54:40] Speaker B: Right, right. And then to carry on with, like, oh, like, you had a better offer. And I really doubt I'm the, you know, only person to make you feel cheap or the, you know, blah, blah, blah. But then later on, he comes out and is very, you know, kind and.
And apologizes nicely.
Yeah.
[01:55:04] Speaker E: It feels like he took her autonomy away by telling Stucky and then him hitting on her. And I feel like there's, like, a sense of miscommunication in that specific scene where maybe she doesn't know what Edward exactly told Stuckey.
[01:55:19] Speaker A: Like, did she.
[01:55:20] Speaker E: Did he say, like, oh, yeah, she's up for hire? Like, what did he tell him? She doesn't know. She just has this creep touching her. So I feel like, he took her sense of autonomy away, which is why she mentions, like, you know, I get to choose who I want to be with, and then I get to, like, I didn't have my. My armor, my clothing on.
[01:55:41] Speaker B: That's. Yeah, you're spot on.
[01:55:45] Speaker A: So later in the night, after they've made up, Vivian is kind of talking to him about becoming a prostitute. And in this movie, she says it's, like, not really a choice. Like, she says, quote, it's not your childhood dream. And then it's kind of implied that, like, she hasn't done something else because, quote, people put you down enough, you start to believe it. End quote.
I think this is also the scene where he says that she has very special qualities and could be something, you know, anything she wanted. So.
[01:56:13] Speaker B: So, yeah.
[01:56:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So maybe they are in love a little bit.
[01:56:18] Speaker C: I know. Yeah.
Kind of. Yeah. It really sets it up to where I think by this point, there are some feelings between the two of them. Whether it's like, super, I'm in love, it's definitely heading towards that, because I think the whole thing of her not even taking the money is a sign that she. There's something going on because she was so intent on that number. Right. And on that money when they first came together. And then for her to literally walk away from $3,000, it was just more of an indication that something else is happening here.
Yeah. If they're not fully in love, it feels like there are definitely strong feelings, let's put it that way, between the two. The two of them. Yeah.
[01:57:07] Speaker A: And now we're going to take these strong feelings, and we're going to have the kind of the Cinderella Ball equivalent scene in this movie, which is the opera scene where Edward takes Vivian to the opera on a plane.
[01:57:20] Speaker C: I don't know. I feel like we keep talking about, like, legendary scenes or just, like, legendary moments in this movie, and it feels like almost every one of these. And maybe it's because of. Of just how iconic this movie is, but this is also a pretty legendary scene, you know, all the way down to the clothing and the accessory.
[01:57:40] Speaker A: Right.
[01:57:40] Speaker C: And then another part of him showing how much he is worth. Right. You know, takes her on a private jet to another city and, you know, takes her to the opera.
And then also her interaction with the lady after the opera is over, you know, and she's crying, and then she says what she says to that. I even forget what the line is.
[01:58:07] Speaker A: But she says, it was so good, I almost peed my pants.
And then Edward goes to the Lady.
She likes it more than Pirates of Pen dance.
[01:58:18] Speaker B: So good.
[01:58:20] Speaker C: So good. It's so good. So, again, it's just like, you can't. She is so genuine in any of these things, where Edward just runs in circles of.
I don't know, like, I would feel very a fish out of the water kind of, you know, thing in these situations with people like this because it just feels so stuffy. And so, again, I really appreciate Gary Marshall bringing in that kind of hilarity and that funny moments and moments that you don't think you could, you know, put in a kind of, like a cute, quirky kind of scene. And so I found this whole entire part of this movie just so good. Iconic. Iconic. It's. It's just iconic.
[01:59:02] Speaker A: I will say. I will say that I love opera, and I have been to some operas. Like in Madison, Wisconsin, where I lived before now, the opera is actually not very expensive. You can get, like, a decent seat at the opera for, like, $25 even. And I actually saw the same opera they see in the movie La Traviata. So I've seen the exact opera, and La Traviata is basically about a man who falls in love with a prostitute or courtesan. So kind of nice little parallel they did there. Yeah.
[01:59:32] Speaker B: And it reminded me of Moonstruck. Yep. Where she's like, I'm not gonna understand. And he's like, you'll love it or you'll hate it. And she loves it.
[01:59:43] Speaker C: Loves it.
[01:59:44] Speaker A: Yeah. That is it. Like, it almost is like it cribbed from Moonstruck in a way, because it's very similar. The man who loves the opera introducing it to a woman. The woman unexpectedly, really enjoying it. Yeah.
[01:59:58] Speaker E: Do you read a lot of billionaire romances?
[02:00:01] Speaker A: Not a ton, myself.
[02:00:03] Speaker B: I don't actually.
Well, okay. Not intentionally, but it seems like all the time that guy is got, like, you know, undisclosed amounts of money and, you know, yada, yada. So there's always great wealth around.
Yeah.
[02:00:21] Speaker A: It.
[02:00:21] Speaker E: This scene is, like, in every, I feel like, billionaire romance. So it was kind of fun to watch it and be like, oh, I've read this. And like, every billionaire romance.
Oh, let me fly you out to this other city on this very expensive date on my private jet. So it's just kind of fun to see it and not just read it.
[02:00:44] Speaker A: Yeah. It definitely gave you 50 shades of gray vibes now. But, I mean, this did it first. This did it before Fifty Shades of Grey. So there you go.
[02:00:50] Speaker B: Yep.
[02:00:51] Speaker C: And in my opinion, they did it better.
[02:00:56] Speaker A: So one thing about the opera scene. They originally were going to shoot it at the San Francisco Opera House, but interestingly, they were not able to because of recent earthquake damage to the Opera house. So instead, the exterior of the opera house is a shot of the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in Pittsburgh, of all places. And the interior was a combination of a hallway and the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles county and a custom made set in a soundstage which represented the opera boxes. So they got it done. Things happen. You get it done.
Any other dress thoughts about the fantastic red dress and necklace combination?
[02:01:32] Speaker C: I mean, I feel like Gary Marshall was obsessed with Julia Roberts, like, in this movie, because there are so many scenes of her of just an up and down shot of Vivian in clothing in other things in this entire movie.
And red looks so good on redheads. I am so flabbergasted by people who have red hair and can actually pull off red outfits with perfection. So definitely one of those scenes. And the jewelry, the accessories, just bring Chef's kiss to. To this entire thing.
[02:02:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And one of the things I like too is, like, they show all the hotel employees watching her as she leaves, and everyone just looks like both, like, stunned by her beauty and also happy for her. So it gives you this sense of like, she has this, like, team cheering for her throughout the movie.
[02:02:28] Speaker B: They're the little mice and she's Cinderella, and they're all there clapping for her. Yay. The fairy godfather's there too. And they're all stunned at her beauty.
[02:02:40] Speaker C: Yeah, they literally show everybody. Yeah, they show everybody, like, even people that we've never seen before at the hotel set. Literally everybody.
[02:02:51] Speaker A: So, yes, we have this opera scene. They have bonded closer together yet again.
And now we have a scene where Vivian encourages Edward to take the day off.
And originally I thought this was in San Francisco, but they're back in la. And there's a park scene that was shot in the grand park in la, and there's a scene where they're at a place called Barb's Garden Quickie Grill. And apparently that location was meant to evoke a feeling of loneliness, and they wanted an image that looked like the Edward Hopper painting Nighthawks. And it's like this image you see just for a moment, but it really does give off that Nighthawks energy. But I'm not sure why they wanted to evoke loneliness when these two are together. That is a little confusing to me.
[02:03:32] Speaker B: Totally. I mean, I love a diner, and I love a diner shot.
[02:03:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
Did you get the painting reference too? Like, were you like.
[02:03:40] Speaker B: Yes, not at all. Not at all. I thought it was kind of cute that they went to, like, this dive place together, like out maybe outside of his comfort zone a little bit.
[02:03:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
And they have hot dogs when they're in the park. So that's another, like, you know.
[02:03:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[02:03:56] Speaker C: People say, yep, I found this scene to be really cute. Or not. It's more, again, just kind of showing the influence that Vivian has or has had on Edward. Even Stucky, I think, at one point says that he never takes a day off. Never.
[02:04:12] Speaker B: Right.
[02:04:12] Speaker C: Never takes.
[02:04:14] Speaker A: After they have their little day off together, before returning to the hotel, Edward takes Vivian to the Blue Banana, where she's going to go to see Kit and I think give her some more money. But then, like, okay, this whole situation with this Carlos, this drug dealer, maybe pimp guy, I don't even understand why he's harassing her so much. But, like, he's like, they. They. Then they're trying to, like, hold up Vivian or Edward for money. And. And, like, I can't remember the driver's name, but the driver's carrying a gun. Daryl, perhaps I think his name is. Is carrying a gun. And Edward kind of rescues her. But it's. It's like. I think the whole point is we need to see Edward rescuing her. But at the same time, I did not understand what was going on with this drama at all.
[02:04:54] Speaker B: Jenna, Jennifer, is this a deleted scene or something?
[02:04:57] Speaker C: No, I was gonna say, I don't.
[02:04:59] Speaker B: Know if I have no recollection of this scene.
[02:05:02] Speaker A: Wait, are you serious? You don't see the part where they go to Blue Banana? Like, it's on the dvd. Yeah, they go to the Blue Banana.
[02:05:07] Speaker C: Oh, no, dude.
[02:05:10] Speaker A: Either you have no.
You literally. You literally have no seat. You did not have a scene where they go to the Blue Banana viewings. No, but it's on the dvd. I swear to God, it's not a deleted scene.
[02:05:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't remember this either. So, like, when you started, I was just like. I don't know if I remember this at all.
[02:05:32] Speaker A: How do you. How did you watch the movie? Just out of curiosity, this time I.
[02:05:38] Speaker B: Think it was on Max. I was streaming it on Max.
[02:05:40] Speaker A: Okay, so streaming. Okay, yeah, streaming.
[02:05:43] Speaker B: But I'm telling you, in all my years of renting.
[02:05:46] Speaker A: Wait, wait, Alexia. How did Alexia watch it, though? I want to know.
[02:05:49] Speaker E: So I saw that scene, but I saw kind of like a weird online pirated version.
[02:05:57] Speaker A: Okay, so, interestingly, you might have gotten one pirated from a DVD you guys watch on. Maybe this is a Scene that has been cut in and out of the movie. That's interesting.
Very.
[02:06:09] Speaker C: That's wild.
[02:06:11] Speaker A: Well, anyway, in my version of the movie, Edward rescues her from these weird thugs that have no. No real motive that I can tell in the movie. And. Yeah, and I think that makes part of why she, like, comes then comes back to the hotel. He's asleep, and she kisses him on the mouth.
He wakes up, he kisses her back. There is a sex scene again, the only sex scene where you see a little bit of nudity. And then at the end afterwards, she says, I love you. So it's a whole piece of what brings the I love you in in the version I saw. And he. Anyway.
[02:06:46] Speaker B: Well, you know, it's over. Like, the whole kissing on the mouth.
They're goners now. This is it. That seals the deal. But she says, I love you, and he doesn't say it back.
[02:06:57] Speaker A: I mean, that's like, typical man behavior for a lot of men, Unfortunately.
Sometimes it takes them a little longer, depending on the guy, I think.
[02:07:06] Speaker C: I think with my husband, he said I love you first to me.
[02:07:09] Speaker A: That's good. That's nice.
[02:07:11] Speaker C: This scene was really cute. And as Sophia said. Yeah, no turning back now. She kisses him on the mouth where she explicitly said in the beginning, again, I don't kiss on the mouth type of thing.
And saying I love you just seals the deal.
[02:07:26] Speaker A: The next morning, then Edward alludes to the fact that they're about to separate, but he says he would like to keep seeing her. He basically offers her, like, the position of mistress. Like, so you'll have your own apartment, you'll have a car, you'll be able to shop at any of the stores. And Vivian basically says, like, it's not what she wants.
And then we see Kit visiting Vivian at the Beverly Wilshire, and she's wearing the controversial coral suit.
And Kit figures out that Vivian's caught feelings for Edward, which she's. She's worried about. But then she says, you know, maybe it'll work out after all. Sophia, you got to talk about this part. Sure.
[02:08:02] Speaker B: And they go back and forth. And Vivian's like, who. Who has it worked out for? For give me a name. And Kit's like, oh, the pressure of a name.
And. And she goes, I got it. Vivian goes, who? And Kit goes, cinder rella. And I love that line, and I've always loved it. And they laugh because there you go. Happened to her. Why not to any of us?
[02:08:27] Speaker A: So I'll. I'll do a really quick take on what the film's resolution is. So Edward changes his mind about taking over Mr. Morris's company and decides that he will instead go into business with Mr. Morris building ships.
Stucky blames Vivian for this change in Edward and then he comes over and tries to rape her. And he is stopped by Edward.
[02:08:47] Speaker C: Just like he sucks up and down. He's a real bastard in this movie.
[02:08:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
Like I will say, like, a lot of times a movie has a rape scene or an attempted rape scene and I find it very distasteful.
But for some reason this one did not bother me as much. And I don't know why. Like, maybe because I was. The tone of the movie suggested that it wasn't going to go through. I don't know.
[02:09:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yes. I mean, we understand what he comes for. And the worst that we see, I mean, he hits her across the face and that's when when, you know, Edward comes in and stops it and saves her and rescues her there. So, yeah, it's a pretty PG scene for.
[02:09:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[02:09:31] Speaker B: What it. Where it could have gone.
[02:09:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
So then Edward repeats his offer to Vivian to be like. To be his mistress. But she rejects it, like, for one thing, she says, like, a lot of people will treat me just like Stucky. This is what it would be like. And then she also says, I want the fairy tale. Like, she earlier told him about this idea she had about when she was young about being carried off on a. By a knight on a horse. She wants the fairy tale.
So the hotel staff watches Vivian go. Barney says, come and visit us again sometime. To which she says, stay cool, which is so cute.
And then we have Rock set's It Must have Been Love playing over Vivian leaving the hotel.
So Gary Marshall commissioned Rock Set to make a song for the movie, but they didn't really have time to make a new song. So what they offered instead was they could use an old song of rock sets called It Must have Been Love.
Parentheses Christmas for the Brokenhearted. It Must have Been Love was originally a Christmas. Yes, it was originally a Christmas song and the lyrics went a hard Christmas day instead of a hard winter's day at one point. And you can see this on YouTube, you can see the original Christmas version of it. It's really like one word has changed and that's it. It's kind of hilarious, though.
[02:10:48] Speaker B: That's fantastic.
Yeah, that's awesome.
[02:10:51] Speaker A: And this is like. It Must have Been Loved for me is the song I most associate with this movie. It's just inextricable from this film.
So Vivienne Has a plan. Instead of being a mistress, she is going to take the money she has from Edward, which apparently $3,000 stretched a long way in 1990 because she gave some to Kit, too. She's taking the money. She's going to move to San Francisco, get a job, finish high school, and then also gives Kit money. And Kit's been making plans where she's going to, like, go to beauty school or something like that.
And then Barney engineers Edward going after Vivian by telling him that Daryl drove her home just the other day. And when he returns the necklace to Barney and says, can you please give this back to the jewelry store? Or Barney says about the necklace, it must be difficult to let go of something so beautiful.
And this sets off the spark in Edward's mind. I'm gonna go get my woman.
And then we get the fairy tale ending. So, like, Edward pulls up in the limo. Opera music is playing. He's holding flowers, and he is gonna climb up a fire escape despite his fear of heights. What do y' all think about this ending?
[02:12:00] Speaker B: How else. What is it gonna end, anyway? So perfect.
Ridiculously perfect.
[02:12:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say I love this whole scene because it makes a good conclusion to everything that happened, right? The opera music, the flowers going up the fire escape. Even though he is. Is afraid of heights, Richard Gere's face, like, climbing, like, you know, hugging up against the side of the building, like, with the flowers, like, in his mouth, like, as he's, like, moving along. And her just, like, laughing hysterically at this man is just. It's. It's. It's very good.
[02:12:40] Speaker E: It was very chaotic with everything that Jess had just mentioned, but it had a lot of that quirkiness from the movie that was kind of subtly sprinkled out through the whole thing.
So it was just a good way to end it for me.
[02:12:55] Speaker A: My favorite part is, like, the line, so what happened after he climbed up the tower and rescued her? She says she rescues him right back. And apparently a Vanity Fair article credits producer Laura Ziskin with coming up with the line, she rescues him right back. And I think for me, that makes. Like, I'm. I'm not so much like a fairy tale person, but, like, I love the idea of two people changing each other, you know, two people. I feel like that's what the best relationships are about. It's like two people bringing out the best qualities in each other and helping them transform their lives in a positive way. So that's what gets me about it.
[02:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[02:13:33] Speaker C: Very, very romance erotica book.
[02:13:35] Speaker A: Coded, but life coded too. Really? I do feel like.
[02:13:40] Speaker C: Absolutely, yeah. Fiction mirrors life, right?
[02:13:44] Speaker A: So, okay, so one more comment. I talked about this before I alluded to it, but director Garry Marshall told Vanity Fair, quote, my vision was a combination of fairy tales. Julia Roberts was Rapunzel, Richard Gere was Prince Charming, and Hector Elizondo was the fairy godmother. It didn't seem like a vision everybody would have, but I did.
God bless Gary Marshall for his vision. I think it's. It's great.
[02:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[02:14:09] Speaker C: Works very well.
[02:14:11] Speaker A: Oh, and then we end up the whole film with the welcome to Hollywood guys back. Welcome to Hollywood. What's your dream? So, yeah, and that's perfect.
Yes.
[02:14:21] Speaker C: So good.
[02:14:23] Speaker A: Okay, so now we come to, like, a very big topic that we're unfortunately not going to have a ton of time. You could devote an entire podcast to this topic, let alone a podcast episode. We're only going to have a little bit time to talk about it, but I want to talk about this movie in the context of sex work in American film. And for one thing, this is probably the most. I mean, this is one of the highest grossing movies of all time. So it is probably the most prominent example of sex work being portrayed in American film.
I want to know, like, have you all seen a lot of movies with sex workers in them or had you at the time you'd seen Pretty Woman? I think for me, like, I had seen Bell Watling and Gone with the Wind, and that was, like, the only other time at that time when I saw Pretty Woman that I'd seen maybe a prostitute that I was kind of aware of being a prostitute. Oh, wait, no. Lily Von Stup from Blazing Saddles.
[02:15:11] Speaker C: There's also her, but, like, I forgot about that one.
[02:15:15] Speaker A: But, like, yeah. Was this, like, kind of your first exposure, I guess, to, like, or one of your first exposures to prostitution in film, do you think?
[02:15:23] Speaker B: Probably, yeah.
[02:15:24] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I would probably say the same thing for. Especially as how young I was when I watched this. I don't remember, but Blazing Saddles is probably another one that I can think of of early in my early viewing days of seeing sex work in film.
[02:15:42] Speaker A: And Alexa, you came to this movie, like, recently. So, like, did you recall seeing a lot of movies with prostitution when you were growing up? Or, like, was it something you would notice in a film at all?
[02:15:52] Speaker E: Even so, I grew up in Las Vegas.
[02:15:57] Speaker A: Ah, yes.
[02:15:59] Speaker E: It's not something. Something that I never not notice. Like, you're kind of exposed to prostitution very quickly at a young age.
So I just Watched this movie not that long, like, this month.
[02:16:12] Speaker A: So since you. Since, like, you are kind of had more of a context before coming to the movie, how do you find that this movie compares to other portrayals of prostitution and film that you'd seen? Like, do you think it compares positively or negatively or just kind of.
Or do you think all the movies are kind of doing weird things with it?
[02:16:29] Speaker E: They didn't glamorize it. And that's something that I do appreciate.
So. But it was a softer version of, I think, what that world is like, because, I mean, I.
I worked at a movie theater and a skating rink, and there were prostitutes lined up in front, and people would drop off their kids and then go hook up with someone or pick up someone. Someone while their kids are at a theater or so. Like, I was exposed to it very, very early on, and I feel like they didn't show a lot. They only showed a very narrow view of Vivian.
[02:17:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[02:17:10] Speaker E: With Edward. They didn't show her world.
[02:17:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[02:17:14] Speaker E: And the environment.
[02:17:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I think I mentioned earlier, like, this, this movie is sort of unique in the realm of movies about prostitution I've seen, because I watched a whole bunch to prepare for the episode, too. And that you don't see Vivian with other clients. You don't even see her trying to pick up other clients. And you don't see Edward as being necessarily a frequent customer of prostitutes. This might even be his first time seeing a prostitute. So it's a. It's. It's a very.
Yeah. Very different view of prostitution than other movies. And, like, I wonder if that's what contributes to the romance in some way. Did any of you end up seeing Anora? Because I know I'd asked, like, if you were anyone who's willing to watch it.
[02:17:53] Speaker E: I finished it five minutes before we hopped on.
[02:17:56] Speaker A: Bless you.
[02:17:57] Speaker B: Good for you.
[02:17:59] Speaker A: So the latest sort of movie about sex work that's been very influential is Anora, that was directed by Sean Baker and came out just last year. It won both the Oscar and the Palm Doric Con. So this movie got a lot of hype and respect.
I was not necessarily a big fan of Honora. Like, it left me with a very uneasy feeling. I do think there's ways in which it is more realistic in terms of showing the downsides, but, like, at the same time, it is very overblown and very dramatic in an aura. Like this girl who is working as a stripper. Mainly she is propositioned by a rich Russian oligarch son to spend, like, a week with him and Then they end up getting married and there's of a lot, a lot of problems that result from that. So it's also a very dramatic situation that is probably unlikely to happen to an average person. But in Anora, things do not go. In a fairy tale, happy. I'm not going to spoil the ending, but they are not. Like, it's not Pretty Woman. What is. What is your impression comparing these two films? Alexia, Was there one you preferred? Or like, what were your thoughts?
[02:19:01] Speaker E: So personally, I like Pretty Woman because I.
I have like, a weird thing. It's a personal preference of like, noise level and background level. And there's so much chaos in Anora. But it's felt very realistic. Like, I've met people like Anora. Like, I grew up with people I went to school with people. Like, that's something where, you know, my classmates are waiting till they turn 18 so they can go make money at trip clubs.
[02:19:30] Speaker D: Like, it's.
[02:19:31] Speaker E: I've met a lot of people like Anora and that go into that type of environment. So it felt very realistic. Her personality and her, like, constant attack mode.
I don't know. I did like Pretty Woman. There's just a lot of classic scenes. I cannot imagine anyone recreating any scenes from a Nora. And anyone really, like, thinking of it as iconic.
[02:19:55] Speaker A: It's received so much hype, though, and so many awards. Like, and like, on film Twitter, it was like, well, what's left of film Twitter people were like, all about it. So it's interesting to me because, like, for me, like, Pretty Woman, like, even though I don't think it's necessarily feminist per se, like, it feels friendlier to women, to me, than an aura for some reason. I can't really put my finger on why, though.
[02:20:17] Speaker E: I don't know if it's because it.
If you're going to watch it, just be warned. Like, if you're sensitive to nudity, there's.
[02:20:24] Speaker A: A ton of nudity.
[02:20:25] Speaker E: The sex. I'm not like a party person. And so they spent the first half of the movie, like, she's getting swept up in, like, rich kid partying, like, just going to clubs and going to Vegas and doing drugs and sex. And so, I don't know, I didn't feel like a movie made for women. I did like that she had a very strong personality.
That's something. She didn't have a very timid personality. She wasn't one to kind of like, you know, if someone says, like, hey, stop, and she's like, stopping, no, she's giving 120 everything she does.
So. And I do like that they portrayed her character as, like, this is a job.
So in the beginning, they show her giving lap dance after lap dance dance after left dance, and she's, you know, friendly and, you know, has her regulars, and she's like, you know, has great customer service, but then at the same time, she was, like, very pushy and, like, she has to make money.
[02:21:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[02:21:35] Speaker E: So I liked that aspect of it, too, is that they showed the work ethic that's involved.
[02:21:40] Speaker A: It's a.
[02:21:40] Speaker E: It's a job.
[02:21:41] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Like, that aspect. I think there's more realism to it, I guess. Like, for me, it's like they. I don't see her having a positive female relationship in the movie, you know, like. Whereas, like, in Pretty Woman. Kit. She's got kit.
Sean Baker, who directed, wrote and directed Anora, claims that he had not seen Pretty Woman for years. And he. There was no influence from Pretty Woman. I don't buy it. What do you think? That's bullshit.
Thank you.
[02:22:08] Speaker B: Wow.
[02:22:10] Speaker E: No, he. There were so many scenes. Like, there's a scene in. Where they're laying in bed the exact same way in Pretty Woman.
[02:22:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Where they're negotiating the price, and it's basically like, I would have paid that much. Like, you know, like. Yeah, it's. Yeah. And there's even an allusion to, like, wanting to, you know, go to Disney World and stay in a princess room like Cinderella. At one point in the movie, I'm like, sean Baker, come on, seriously, just say you were inspired by the rom com already.
[02:22:36] Speaker C: This kind of feels like that whole thing with Sean Baker. I wonder if it's just because it's so baked into pop culture that oozes out of things and you don't even realize it.
[02:22:47] Speaker A: Right.
[02:22:47] Speaker C: Like, so there's. Again, iconic movies are iconic for a reason.
[02:22:53] Speaker B: My thought, and I've read and I've heard and I agree over the years that, like, Pretty Woman is far from the reality of sex workers.
That it's. It is.
Can be very scary. It's completely unsafe. People are really young who are doing these. This job, that there's not much glamour at all.
I mean, anybody maybe going into it being like, it's gonna be just like a Pretty Woman is really naive.
I mean, it's still a fun movie. I would call it fun, but not real.
[02:23:26] Speaker A: Well, I have this whole bunch of questions, quotes that I had from sex workers who were complaining about this film, and like, so what's. Okay, so what's interesting, Sophia, is There are people who have said just what you're saying, that, like, this movie makes sex work too glamorous and it's not realistic enough. Right. And then there's the other side. Like, more recently, there's been like, a lot of push back on. Like, like people saying, you know, sex work is work, and, you know, trying to, like, stand up for sex workers rights. I, like, I want to make it clear right away that I completely agree that sex work sex workers should not be penalized, they should not be put in jail. But I, but I also think there are dangers to it and I think it's unrealistic to say that. But, like, but there's sex workers who are basically complain about this movie on the other end that they say, oh, like, they make, they stigmatize sex work. So Marie Claire from Australia interviewed two longtime sex workers about their perception of the film.
And one sex worker, Tilly Lawless, said she did appreciate certain things about the movie. She liked how Vivian established boundaries, how she's depicted as desirable and dateable rather than as a drug addict or a victim. But she added, quote, what I would find truly radical and would love to see is a romcom with a sex worker where the partner supports her work, doesn't expect her to sacrifice it for them, but recognizes that work sex is work sex, which is different to private life sex. Now that would be revolutionary.
And then another sex worker they interviewed, Galavantine, said that she didn't like the notion that Vivian needs to be saved or the inclusion at the beginning of the film of a dead sex worker. So, like, it's interesting that, like, people have these very different opinions about the movie. Like, I feel like you almost can't win in a way when you make a movie about sex work in certain senses.
[02:25:07] Speaker B: Right.
[02:25:08] Speaker A: I think there's one in my double features that I'm going to talk about that, that would be an exception. But I think for the most part, everybody's going to have an opinion. Like, it's too light on sex work or it's too hard on it. What do you guys think?
[02:25:19] Speaker B: I agree that, yeah, that it would be revolutionary to see a film where it's somebody's job and their partners. You know, it's like, okay, off to work.
I mean, never in the history of storytelling has anybody told that story. It would be, it would be brand new, for sure.
[02:25:43] Speaker C: Like, when you hear people who actually do sex work talk about this. Yeah, this is exactly what they talk about. It's like the separation between their work and their personal Lives. So to have a movie, like an actual mainstream movie lean into that. It would be revolutionary if it just, it literally talked about that. But I don't know if people would be able to handle something like that because there's still many people that come at sex workers and say, you know, you have sex for work, you know, and it's like supposed to be demeaning and stuff like that, where it's just like, it's my damn job, dude. Like, what the hell do you want me to say or do? Like, it's my job.
[02:26:22] Speaker A: I wish we had so much more time to talk about this topic because it's such a rich topic and like, I ended up watching so many movies about sex work. But another time. It'll have to be another time.
We are going to now get to our double feature recommendations.
So for my first double feature recommendation, I recommend watching Pretty Woman with American Gigolo from 1980, which stars Richard Gere as a gigolo. And it also features Hector Elizondo in a supporting role too. And it was directed by Paul Schrader. And I don't know if you guys have seen American Gigolo, but like, I did not understand why Richard Gere was hot until I watched American Gigolo. And then I was like, I get it now.
[02:27:02] Speaker E: Now.
[02:27:02] Speaker B: Okay, okay.
[02:27:04] Speaker A: No, for real. He's like also completely nude at one point in American Gigolo.
[02:27:09] Speaker C: It's been so long since I've seen that movie.
[02:27:12] Speaker A: It is a fantastic movie. It's got great music, it's got a great vibe. And I think it is a pretty like. It shows like the vulnerability but also the power of his sex worker character. Of course, sex work is a little different between being a man and a woman too. And he's a sex worker that's primarily working with women as well. Well, so there's a very different dynamic on that level. But there is a vulnerability to his character and he does get in some situations that leave him more vulnerable. So totally recommend American Gigolo. See, See Richard Gere on the other side of the transaction.
My second double feature recommendation is going to be My Best friend's wedding from 1997. We covered that on episode 37 of Every Rom com. And just because it's my other favorite Julia Roberts rom com, I love that movie. I think most people are pretty familiar with it. It is a bit of a non traditional romcom. It's directed by Paul Hogan, who also directed Muriel's Wedding. And I. I can't recommend it enough. Fantastic movie. And then my third double feature, I'M going to talk a little bit more about. This one is called Working girls. It's from 1986. It's not to be confused with Working Girl with Melanie Griffith. It is Working Girls, written, directed and produced by Lizzie Borden. And Working Girls is actually a indie movie about sex workers working in kind of a high end brothel. And you see them, you see them. One main woman goes through her whole day. She sits and talks with the other sex workers. Then clients come and you see her see a variety of clients. But it's very like kind of mundane. Like it's. It's like bad things happen, but they're not like super terrible things.
Good things happen, but they're not like, really glamorous or dramatic. Like, most of her happiest moments in the movie are when she's talking with the other sex workers. And it kind of shows you some of the realities of the job. I would say. It's almost like Clerks for sex work.
[02:29:05] Speaker C: Okay, interesting.
[02:29:08] Speaker A: And, and I appreciate that. It's like women. It's like women are talking in the movie all the time and it's written, directed by a woman as well. So I really recommend checking that out. I think it is probably. I've seen a ton of sex work movies to prepare for this podcast. This is by far, like, I think the most realistic portrayal of that job. So check it out.
[02:29:29] Speaker C: Okay, yeah, I'll go next. So for me, I went strictly off of just people in the movies were my recommendation. So obviously I said this at the beginning of the podcast. An officer in a gentleman from 1982 with Richard Gere and Deborah Winger. Very classic movie for me. And again, the union scene.
Big ups to unions. Union all the way. But yeah, Richard Gere is, is really, is. He's really hot in this movie too, for some reason. I don't know what it is about him in this movie, but he absolutely just hits the mark for me.
I'm also going to recommend just because Julia Roberts plays the wife in Ocean's Eleven. I am obsessed with the Ocean's movies.
I watch them at least once a year.
That goes to show you how much obsession I have with this. And I find her interesting in this. You can definitely tell, like, she has settled into herself by 2001 when this movie comes out. And then. And so it just, it brings joy and warmth to my heart anytime I get to watch these movies, recommend these movies, even though there are problematic people in that movie. But again, movies have problematic people in them.
I'm also going to recommend because Jason Alexander is such a bastard in this movie. And there's a Cinderella connection. Rodgers and Hammerstein's Cinderella from 1997 with Brandy, Anne, Whitney Houston.
Definitely a classic movie. One that I recently in the last couple of years revisited and found a lot of joy in, in watching that.
[02:31:14] Speaker B: Okay, so my double features are runaway bride from 1999. It brings back Julia Roberts and Richard Gere. It's kind of.
[02:31:23] Speaker G: And.
[02:31:23] Speaker B: And Gary Marshall directing. It's fun to watch back to back because you see their parallels and the things they bring in and there's a lot of the same cast, the, you know, Gary Marshall's usual suspects that come up. And I think it's a lot of fun. I love this one.
My next recommendation was swingers from 1996, just for the LA aspect.
And I, I loved that film, you know, about these young guys trying to get their acting careers going and LA and, and their trials and tribulations and love. But it shows a lot of kind of Hollywood, Louisiana, iconic locations throughout the film.
And then my last one, very early. Julia Roberts and Mystic Pizza. I saw this movie constantly, a favorite. And she plays one of three, three young girls who work at a Mystic Pizza pizza place in Mystic, Connecticut. And they're coming of age, ish sort of stories, falling in love and finding their place.
[02:32:35] Speaker C: And I feel like that movie sets up like Julia Roberts entire career after this.
[02:32:41] Speaker B: It did. I think it came before Pretty Woman.
It was kind of her biggest role before Pretty Woman.
[02:32:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what, that's what the producer had seen her in who recommended her for Pretty Woman. So.
[02:32:55] Speaker B: Yeah, so good.
[02:32:58] Speaker E: The first one I picked was the sweetest thing. It has such a great cast as Cameron Diaz, Christina Applegate, Samo Blair, and they are roommates, best friends and they love to party together.
Cameron Diaz does not like commitment at all.
So she ends up meeting this guy at a club and she ends up like just becoming infatuated with him. And so she goes on a mini road trip to go find him from the little detail she remembers.
And it's just.
It's a movie for women.
It has a ton of Pretty Women references. It has a makeover montage. It has like the jewelry box snapping on her fingers.
And it's so funny and raunchy and it's hard to find a good raunchy comedy rom com for women.
[02:33:51] Speaker A: So I've got some I'll recommend to you later. But yeah, I would love that.
[02:33:57] Speaker E: And it's just completely over the top, not practical. And it's got Cameron Diaz and Which I absolutely love. Cameron Diaz and Christina Applegate together.
The next thing that I recommend is the Nanny. I've been watching Nanny reruns, and I.
I love Fran. She's very unapologetically her. Like, she does not.
She is who she is. And I liked it because I felt like it kind of fit in with that societal differences. And. And, you know, she's.
She's not very, like, wealthy, and she grew up with a very, like, kind of crazy loud environment. And then she nannies for a guy who's very sophisticated and just watching her, like, break him down little by little and kind of help his children become better versions of themselves and have more fun and not so stuffy. I don't know. I love, love that show.
[02:35:00] Speaker A: Nice. I'm glad I know how you're connecting it now, because at first I was like, I don't know, like, how is that connected? But, like, you and you say the societal differences and them, like, affecting each other. That totally makes sense.
[02:35:11] Speaker E: The last one, I just put this one in for a good time call, and it's from 2012.
It's like, an indie film, and basically it's this woman whose longtime boyfriend breaks up with her, so she ends up needing a roommate because rent's very expensive. So she moves in with someone who.
She doesn't really know who that is until she finds out it's like her enemy from 12 years ago from a college party or something.
So they absolutely hate each other, but she finds out that the other woman runs a, like, a sex call line.
[02:35:52] Speaker C: Is that what they're called?
[02:35:53] Speaker E: Hotline?
[02:35:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Phone sex?
[02:35:55] Speaker E: Yeah, Phone sex line. And so she hears all these weird noises coming from her roommates. Then she ends up kind of getting looped in and kind of develops a sense of, like, confidence within herself and, like, ends up going into the more business part of it. And so it's just kind of a positive view on it. Like, at first she's very judgmental about it, but then she ends up enjoying it and enjoying the work. So it's kind of a weird one.
[02:36:26] Speaker A: No, it sounds interesting. Yeah, no, I'm glad you. Actually, Alexa, you came up with, like, two movies that I have not seen yet. So I'm always happy, like, when a guest is able to bring in movies I haven't seen before, because then they could go on my watch list, so fantastic.
[02:36:41] Speaker E: Yay. These are definitely, definitely not Oscar movies, so.
[02:36:45] Speaker A: That's okay. That's okay.
So, all right, so I was really glad to talk with all of you, and look out for Body Literati. So Jess and Alexia remind us again where we can find you.
[02:36:59] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. So Body Literati is available on Spotify.
Season 4 will be coming out in May 2025.
First episode will be recorded soon and we're really excited to go ahead and bring you and talk about fiction that fucks. And you can also follow us on Instagram. We're @Bodiliterati B A W D Y L I T E R A T I. We also have email address bodyliteratipodcastmail.com if you're ever interested in talking with us, reach out. We would love to have a conversation with you about, you know, erotican romance.
[02:37:36] Speaker A: Thank you ladies so much again for coming on the show and sharing with us. And yes, every rom com will be doing a few more LA episodes after which we will be heading into our sports rom com series which I'm getting increasingly excited about.
Thank you so much for listening everybody. Goodbye.
[02:37:55] Speaker E: Bye bye Bye.
